Forum - View topicThe List - 6 Trailblazing Shojo "Deconstructions" You Should Be Watching
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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Have you missed the part where we've already discussed that most of this list isn't Shoujo at all? A number of them (such as Madoka) are Mahou Shoujo, but that is something completely different (that may overlap, or may not). Seriously, these terms aren't hard to understand, which makes this article very strange. |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 2947 Location: Email for assistance only |
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I changed the article title numerous times while attempting to find one I liked. At some point "mahou" got lost in the "delete-type-delete" process. It's a bad oversight on my part that I fully take credit for. |
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Illusionary_Systems
 Posts: 50 |
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Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha is Gundam Seed Destiny in girls clothing. It has far more to do with heavy weaponry than magic. Puella Magi Madoka Magica does too, to a certain extent, although the powers that some girls possess could indeed only be explained by magic. Last edited by Illusionary_Systems on Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Its friendship through superior firepower. "I want to be your friend!" "No!" *STARLIGHT BREAKER* "Would you like to reconsider your answer?" |
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Illusionary_Systems
Posts: 50 |
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Just like Gundam. Earth Alliance: "Join our side!" Orb Union: "No." *Earth Alliance invades The Orb Union* Earth Alliance: Would you care to reconsider?" |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Yes, but that rarely leads to lesbian sex, thus Nanoha is clearly superior. |
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Ddoddka_10
Posts: 34 |
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was quite interesting, haven't heard of any of the list. But will now be looking into it as they sound pretty good.
And wooohooo Cowboy Bebop won the poll!!!!!!!!!!!!! as for this weeks poll i chose Rika 
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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At this point I just wish that people used terms with clearer meaning. Even if it makes them sound less smart and the writer's accomplishment less impressive. |
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／人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人＼
 Posts: 4 |
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You focus too much on "trailblazing" and not enough on "deconstruction." To deconstruct a genre, you first have to start with the setup of the genre. Getting pulled into a fantasy world where one fights monsters, gains equipment, and fights to free the world is not a common magical girl setup. If MKR deconstructs anything, it would be jRPGs, but that would give MKR too much credit--the sort of dark, depressing, and betrayal filled plot twists for which you credit MKR has already been done by at least the MegaTen franchise by that point. |
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Juno016
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I don't remember anyone ever coming to a real conclusion on the true meaning of the word, "deconstruction." It was used by one person to describe a certain aspect of one's literature, but he didn't define it. And then it was picked up and used in several different contexts... unless someone has defined it now. I haven't heard of that yet...
For the most part, I've seen most agreement on the term as being used when something in a work intentionally warps aspects of a repeated cliche so that one cannot ignore other aspects of something. This does not mean that it automatically applies realism to something. Nor does it necessary mean that deconstructions are meant to criticize anything. It basically is saying, "This is possible, too." in something that has already established something else as generally immovable tradition. The tradition is what has been constructed and the "deconstruction" reverses that construction by taking a step back and saying, "I'll do this instead." "Subversion" is another way to put it, though "subversion" is more of an actual defined term rather than one that has simply moved through acceptance in literature. In that way, Madoka is definitely a "deconstruction." It doesn't go full-throttle realistic because it's in a genre that really... can't, unless someone pulls the "it's all fake" plot twist. But it does apply its own laws to tie down everything that was once accepted in the genre, including unexplained phenomenon. Even if we can't necessarily prove that "fate" or "destiny" drives the world, it's expressed as one that drives the world of PMMM in some way, and thus, this explains something else that goes on in the story. And that counts as a deconstruction to the exact aspect it connects to in the series: spoiler[Protagonist logic that determines that the protagonist gets their powers from something vaguely explained at the beginning, with little need to explain how it actually works because it's not something important to the story itself--of which Madoka "deconstructs" by hiding the truth until it is revealed HOW and WHY it happened, and then it gets utilized as the series leads to its conclusion.] That's only the start, too. So many things it intentionally deconstructs... Then again, there is no Japanese word for "deconstruction," and the only equivalent that Urobuchi used in Japanese as his intention in the series can really only be attributed to the word, "subversion." But even so, I'd say it's still a deconstruction if he had intention behind putting in the stuff that deconstructed the traditions. -------- MKR somewhat deconstructed the "save-the-world-and-everything-is-happy-again" tradition. MKR2 somewhat deconstructed the "humanity-destroys-everything" tradition in a way, though I might just be thinking of the manga version. I can't remember clearly how the anime ended...
It's hard to say something "deconstructs" a whole genre, though, as you cannot define the whole genre in a single aspect, or even a chain of single aspects. The genre is so vast by itself because each series does things so differently. You can only really "deconstruct" those single aspects that have been accepted in some of the magical girl series. |
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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mh? There's a japanese word, and in one interview at least Urobuchi said this
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Derrida didn't define it very well either. Attempts to define go against his philosophical work anyway. But this is the problem here. You accept that the word is not very well defined, so why do you insist on using it? You describe two ways people talk about deconstruction - applying real life logic or subverting expectations. And those are two completely different things that only overlap in occasions if we value clarity. So why should we use a word that means two different things if we want to talk about the work itself? Why should we use the word if we have to first clarify what kind of meaning we use in this context and then hope that everyone will keep that in mind and not go "but that's not what deconstruction is"? It's not like we're in a shortage of vocabulary here. For the record none of these meanings have much relation to what Derrida meant with that concept. In the most simplistic terms (that we can find in most internet encyclopedias) deconstruction is a critical reading that should in theory uncover that no text has the one "correct" interpretation, that it depends on context, in which we do the reading. Thus Derrida's most popular saying: "There is nothing outside the text". If we use the concept liberally, we can try and apply it to an author working it into his fictional work, but the result would then be heavily metafictional. |
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CrownKlown
 Posts: 1762 |
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Well yea I admitted as much but based on the fact they are so similar I dont see why Madoka is somehow classified as a shoujo trailblazer when its basically tamer version of Narutaru; I mean they are very similar. Why is Madoka then not considered senien? And in my opinion Shrine is not shoujo, if it did not have a yuri ending I would say its a straight up shonen title, even with the yuri in it, it still strike me as being closer to shounen or seinen. Same thing with the first title, its basically hentai so I dont know how that classifies as Shoujo either. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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No one is saying Madoka is shoujo. Its Seinen, if anything.
Again, Kannaduki is unequivocally seinen. Its not even debatable, it just is.
You should probably read the entire thread, since you are just rehashing points that were already made, and the error was acknowledged just a few posts back by the columnist. |
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DavidShallcross
 Posts: 1008 |
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You'd think writers would be aware that, no matter how one uses this term, arguments will ensue. And on this week's poll, I'd pick Yotsuba only if I could have Fuuka and Ena as neighbors. They seem to take a lot of the burden off Koiwai. |
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