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NEWS: Japan's Law Penalizing Downloaders, Criminalizing Ripping Goes Into Effect


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vgiannell5



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:48 am Reply with quote
I think there should be a massive protest against this new law. One that will succeed this time.

It's about time the Japanese stand up for themselves against their industries and tell them to stop this nonsense or they'll sue them for their actions
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Polycell
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Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:07 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Just like copying parts of a book for some specified purposes is considered "fair use," ripping sections of copy-protected DVDs for aforementioned specified uses is OK. (There's legal software for this like Cinematize.) Unfortunately, Japan so far doesn't have a "fair use" clause; yet they impose a prison term.
Fair use in the US ends where DRM begins. Break the CSS and you're breaking the law.

As for the idea that "illegal is illegal and that's that", I highly doubt Wilson's numerous political prisoners would agree with you.
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Rukiia



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 1762
Location: British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:48 am Reply with quote
ModalSilverSoul wrote:
Like you need to pay a monthly fee for hd streaming content from crunchyroll, funimation, theanimenetwork, etc.. I'd rather invest my money in physical releases like DVD's & BD's.


Those sites offer hundreds of Anime in SD format for free. Can you not watch them in SD and then rewatch it in HD when you buy DVD's & BDs? Why do you have to watch the shows right away if you prefer to buy the home releases?

Also, $7 a month is not asking for alot considering you can watch unlimited amounts of Anime in glorious HD. PLUS they recently brought out apps for Smart TV and Playstation 3 so you can even watch new shows on your TV instead of your computer.

There really is no need to download anymore except for maybe really really old titles that never got licensed (and/or, at this point, never will).
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2718

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:15 am Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
Just like copying parts of a book for some specified purposes is considered "fair use," ripping sections of copy-protected DVDs for aforementioned specified uses is OK. (There's legal software for this like Cinematize.) Unfortunately, Japan so far doesn't have a "fair use" clause; yet they impose a prison term.
Fair use in the US ends where DRM begins. Break the CSS and you're breaking the law.

There are recent explicit DMCA exemptions for fair use ripping.

Quote:
As for the idea that "illegal is illegal and that's that", I highly doubt Wilson's numerous political prisoners would agree with you.

Obviously it requires some prudence, but breaking unjust or unethical laws is how they change. This is how alcohol prohibition got overturned and how after such a long time, marijuana prohibition is starting to turn around as well. Obviously not everything changes this way and many unethical laws persist. Nonetheless one shouldn't feel guilty about violating them, just need to be careful.


Rukiia wrote:
Those sites offer hundreds of Anime in SD format for free. Can you not watch them in SD and then rewatch it in HD when you buy DVD's & BDs? Why do you have to watch the shows right away if you prefer to buy the home releases?

if it's there then why not? Especially if he buys the show, then they are still compensated (much much more than free streams). Myself, I already subscribe, and already buy, and I'll still download them, particularly if there are issues with the video (rare, but still occurs) or translation, or censoring

Quote:
There really is no need to download anymore except for maybe really really old titles that never got licensed (and/or, at this point, never will).

Coming around to the topic at hand, by download, I include ripping, since someone else ripped it for you. So you still need to if you want to archive them digitally for more convenient viewing from a media server like many do (see avforums, etc) and to create AMVs.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:26 am Reply with quote
Rukiia wrote:
ModalSilverSoul wrote:
Like you need to pay a monthly fee for hd streaming content from crunchyroll, funimation, theanimenetwork, etc.. I'd rather invest my money in physical releases like DVD's & BD's.


Those sites offer hundreds of Anime in SD format for free. Can you not watch them in SD and then rewatch it in HD when you buy DVD's & BDs? Why do you have to watch the shows right away if you prefer to buy the home releases?

Also, $7 a month is not asking for alot considering you can watch unlimited amounts of Anime in glorious HD. PLUS they recently brought out apps for Smart TV and Playstation 3 so you can even watch new shows on your TV instead of your computer.

There really is no need to download anymore except for maybe really really old titles that never got licensed (and/or, at this point, never will).


Not everyone lives in america or the u.k. where the 2nd hand market is actually stable with a wide variety of titles aviable for purchase.

I seem to recall visiting Romania with my uncle and aunt last year and all I got to watch on crunchy roll out of 24 new series was 6 "not available in your country". So I had to use my home IP by setting up a custom proxy "please don't ask how to watch something I was legally paying for."

Yeah it's easy for us to tell people how to legally stream through crunchy roll, Netflix or funimatoins service but once you live the states your sh** out of luck and have to look elsewhere.
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partially



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:27 am Reply with quote
dan9999 wrote:
...copyright sucks...


It is all well and good arguing that copyright sucks, because it does. But unless you have an alternative your argument is moot.

Sure uploading or downloading is "NOT EVIL" however at the same time it is not good. Laws exist so that society can function. There are plenty of criminal acts that are not necessarily evil, however they can and do effect others in society so they are made criminal.

Uploading material does have an impact. An impact that is often vastly overstated sure, but it does have an effect. Do you truly think that the media you consume should be free? (And no watching television is not 'free' despite what many think, you are paying them with your time by watching adverts.) So next time you work make sure you don't accept any money and see how great it is to be hungry. The capitalist system also sucks, but that is an entirely different argument.

The reason why Crunchyroll / Streaming et al is not available everywhere is because to be effective they need to make revenue. Any single company is not going to be effective worldwide, as they need to organize things such as advertising in specific territories etc. To do so they need a presence in said territories (companies are very wary of advertising with companies they cannot physically meet), and a company like Crunchyroll just doesn't cut that mustard. If you truly want your streaming in EU et al or wherever the solution is very simple. Start your own streaming company and licence a title for your territory.

And after all that is said, ripping for personal use should definitely not be illegal.
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Polycell
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Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:46 am Reply with quote
The idea behind copyright is that granting an author a monopoly would incentive more creative works, thus enriching society. The current idea of it as some moral right of the author is the reason it's gotten so abusive lately(after all, what sort of harebrained moral right expires?).

Copyright infringement isn't inherently good nor evil, neither just nor criminal; it's simply illegal(malum prohibitum), much like violating any other monopoly.
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Rukiia



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:59 am Reply with quote
Cecilthedarkknight_234 wrote:
Not everyone lives in america or the u.k. where the 2nd hand market is actually stable with a wide variety of titles aviable for purchase.


You are right, they don't. Yet I myself don't even live in America or the UK. I can't use Hulu because I live in Canada so I miss out on some shows. Am I going to download them because I can't watch them? No, because I am patient and will wait for future home releases. Plus Crunchyroll is and has expanded to other countries.
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jmaeshawn



Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:21 am Reply with quote
I laugh at all of those who say that there is no need to download anything illegally, all of it can be obtained through legal sources.

I live in Japan and have access to Tsutaya video rental shops. Everytime I walk into one, specifically the one in Shibuya, I see the floor after floor filled with 100's of thousands of DVDs and blu-rays for rent and think about how much of the material there has never seen the light of day outside of Japan. Until the day when every last thing in these Japanese rental shops are licensed and available worldwide, then there will always be a need to find material through "other" methods, unless you happen to live here in Tokyo too.
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Rukiia



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 1762
Location: British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:50 am Reply with quote
jmaeshawn wrote:
I laugh at all of those who say that there is no need to download anything illegally, all of it can be obtained through legal sources.
Um....
Rukiia wrote:
There really is no need to download anymore except for maybe really really old titles that never got licensed (and/or, at this point, never will).
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Vata Raven



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 694
Location: TN

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:50 am Reply with quote
jmaeshawn wrote:
I laugh at all of those who say that there is no need to download anything illegally, all of it can be obtained through legal sources.

I live in Japan and have access to Tsutaya video rental shops. Everytime I walk into one, specifically the one in Shibuya, I see the floor after floor filled with 100's of thousands of DVDs and blu-rays for rent and think about how much of the material there has never seen the light of day outside of Japan. Until the day when every last thing in these Japanese rental shops are licensed and available worldwide, then there will always be a need to find material through "other" methods, unless you happen to live here in Tokyo too.

But it's for rent in JAPAN, meaning no one in Japan has rights to illegal download it. And I give a 50/50 chance that there is a legal means to stream them.

Someone already told me that people from the US can easily order anime episodes from Japan's iTunes store and vice versa. That's one way to get stuff legally. And I am sure that there is some sort of Japanese version of Netflix, another streaming option. And another person has said they were in a Japan, at coffee shop or whatever, and on the homepage, there was a full page of pages you can legally stream anime from.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:52 am Reply with quote
jmaeshawn wrote:
Until the day when every last thing in these Japanese rental shops are licensed and available worldwide, then there will always be a need to find material through "other" methods, unless you happen to live here in Tokyo too.


See, thats what I don't understand in regards to the companies that use outdated and draconian models when it comes to piracy. They bitch and moan all they can claiming they've been hurt financially via piracy, but they refuse to release material in a timely manner (or none at all). How the hell can these folks still rely on troll logic is beyond me.

When unpaid translators manage to produce a "reasonable" product quicker than the studios "official" staff (some in mere hours after initial release), or a series proves to be ridiculously popular outside of the host country, one has to wonder who the hell is running the companies that is completely ignoring this lost profit stream.

TL;DR version:
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potatochobit



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: TEXAS

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:01 am Reply with quote
The average person cannot buy things off the japanese itunes store, your friend is incorrect

first of all, Japan's credit card system is separate from ours, even though it has a visa logo there is an extremely high chance the transaction will be denied or suspended requiring you contact the bank.

as for a 'large' amount of streaming sites? I wouldn't say there are alot. I've not been to a cafe so I can't say what 'pay per minute' features there are.
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Kruszer
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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Location: Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:30 am Reply with quote
While it's good for justice, it's bad news for a lot of fans since there are still anime that don't get licensed and some of them are very good. At least 123 things on my list, for instance, would be definite buys if they were available here. This bill will make it harder to even see shows like these, let alone buy them. Crying or Very sad

Last edited by Kruszer on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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dan9999



Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Posts: 648

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:33 am Reply with quote
partially wrote:
dan9999 wrote:
...copyright sucks...


It is all well and good arguing that copyright sucks, because it does. But unless you have an alternative your argument is moot.

Sure uploading or downloading is "NOT EVIL" however at the same time it is not good. Laws exist so that society can function. There are plenty of criminal acts that are not necessarily evil, however they can and do effect others in society so they are made criminal.

Uploading material does have an impact. An impact that is often vastly overstated sure, but it does have an effect. Do you truly think that the media you consume should be free? (And no watching television is not 'free' despite what many think, you are paying them with your time by watching adverts.) So next time you work make sure you don't accept any money and see how great it is to be hungry. The capitalist system also sucks, but that is an entirely different argument.

The reason why Crunchyroll / Streaming et al is not available everywhere is because to be effective they need to make revenue. Any single company is not going to be effective worldwide, as they need to organize things such as advertising in specific territories etc. To do so they need a presence in said territories (companies are very wary of advertising with companies they cannot physically meet), and a company like Crunchyroll just doesn't cut that mustard. If you truly want your streaming in EU et al or wherever the solution is very simple. Start your own streaming company and licence a title for your territory.

And after all that is said, ripping for personal use should definitely not be illegal.


Another one that puts words in my mouth and has no vision.

I never said I want it or should be free yet it can be and and creator can still can make money, confused? If you just cannot think of how to make money offering a "free" product or take advantage of a situation you see as bad it does not mean it cannot be done

As for an alternative to a copyright law, threes plenty ways a creator can make money, not just with a law THAT DOES NOT work in favor of the creator but in a favor of the middle and their monopoly. For a nice start like I said, leta get rid of the middlemen and have the creator get the money directly with the middlemen if needed just getting a fee for their work. You would not believe how much love real creator would get from fans if they knew their money would not end up in the middlemen hands....hipo you don't want me making a legal paper of how that would work..A lot of change would be done but its pointless to discuss this at this point and the the fin details...copyright evil in itself and needs to die in favor of a real change that benefit the creator and its fair to fans too,.

For the business model. You just cited one way, tv, it makes money with ads and exporting their series to other territories as well between other ways some o us may not even even aware of. SO its not like as a first step the tv model cannot be done in other medium, heck it already has...

The alternatives, you already know them, and are in effect, a couple of several, we have been speaking of them, simulcast in which some content is free to stream with ads too just like tv, with string attached, lot of them evidently and worldwide releases somehow too to reduce the time delays that used top be years before, yet they are terribly crippled alternatives because the industry refuse to change at all and want to keep markets and fanbases hostage, like how Japan is hostage and any alternative options for them are effectively cut and prevented, like reverse importing. So your beloved monopoly makes the laws and pulls the strings to keep the comfort zone for as long as they want.

Why the hassle of innovating, totally changing business models, take risks, etc, etc when you can merely make laws and criminalize people and prevent any innovation effectively keeping things as you like them? No need right, that why they have the power to make the laws that are good for their interests.

Noe for those that think there no need to use other means to get stuff, try again when EVERYTHING IS AVAILABLE WORLDWIDE AT THE SAME TIME VIA A MULTITUDE OF MEDIUMS. Only then we can tlak that there is no need for downloading.


And going back to partially and saying sharers want things free, I tell you you know nothing, and have no idea, MOST of them are willing to pay to the CREATOR not the greedy shitty middlemen that keep 90% of profits and have creators hostage!

First the issue is humans share by instinct believe it or not, second its availability and convenience, that's primarily while people share on the net as concluded by the many independent studies, yes those not commissioned by the industry, third its because its supporting and ideal, nowadays many do it a challenge the harsh consequences because its a message to oppose the monopoly and their constant ripoff of creators and consumer alike not mentioning the draconian immoral laws they push and are succeeding in establishing.

If you care to broad your horizons go check and you will see PRICE is never the determining factor to share, sure, you will find everyone finds current prices a total ripoff but none will tell they wont pay a reasonable price, most will tell you they are more than happy to give the money to the creator directly.

So tell me when the industry changes their evil ways or when I can pay a creator directly, I will do so even without receiving any goods just to feel good for something i love and has given me happiness, so where can I give money to EICHIRO ODA, TORIYAMA, in plain words to the creators, how can I support them in a way that does not mean that the middle men keep 90% of my support?

And I don't even want to begin mentioning that the sharers that are insulted usually in this forum are the same ones that are really buying the stuff, the ones going to concerts, the ones buying merchandise...

And I repeat to all those mentioning legal streams this, legal stream that, you owe to those evil scum pirates that you can now enjoy your so called legal streams on crunchyroll or viz and the like, if they had not pushed and broken your loved copyright laws, those that supposedly help society and so on... you would not even have that pleasure now and the distorted reality that all anime is now available legally and no need to download anything in this day and age...


Last edited by dan9999 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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