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Psycho-Pass (TV) (all seasons).


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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15477
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:54 am Reply with quote
I believe pretty much most if not all of what you posted Harleyquin. But take a look at this weeks Daily Streaming Review, and follow up with in the forum. So many people just did not understand what the Psycho-Pass is, and what it is made of, that they just tripped up.

I agree the way they are facing this season is a little different, but it is not wrong, and personally I prefer this due to things like lack of high school girls turned into sculptures or crazy cyborg hunter.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:14 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
I believe pretty much most if not all of what you posted Harleyquin. But take a look at this weeks Daily Streaming Review, and follow up with in the forum. So many people just did not understand what the Psycho-Pass is, and what it is made of, that they just tripped up.

I agree the way they are facing this season is a little different, but it is not wrong, and personally I prefer this due to things like lack of high school girls turned into sculptures or crazy cyborg hunter.


I'm wasting my time if I post in that forum. I read what is being said there, but I prefer to post my reply here since it's quieter. Users in this forum also seem to be allergic to non-English text, so keeping it here probably makes things easier for the moderators.

This week's episode revealed a lot, but it is next week's episode that will prove if the series is consistent with the setting and themes established in the first season. spoiler[This episode we are given Kamui's background as the sole survivor of the plane crash, we are told his medical report after the crash was highly classified because of doctor-patient confidentiality. However, the surgeon who operated on Kamui is not only actively cooperating with the grand scheme but also voluntarily surrendered to the welfare bureau for questioning. Like all of the other Kamui minions, the surgeon isn't breaking the trend in this respect. Key questions to answer would be Kamui's physiological peculiarities, the ability to enable more than 2 dominators to use a single inspector's profile for authentication and Kamui's next move to shake up society and the bureau's response to stopping him. ]

As to criticism as to why the bureau never followed up with the plane crash earlier, looking at the chain of events might provide an answer.

From the official website and its episode synopsis:

spoiler[

21st-22nd October: Tsunemori's room has WC? scratched on its walls. The suspect Kitazawa utters the name "Kamui" for the first time yet no one other than Tsunemori believes he exists since no cymatic scan nor video camera has an image or reading of the mysterious Kamui. Hologram used by the accomplice to Kitazawa in the first episode analysed and found to be an artificial hologram based on a composite reading of a deceased child aged artificially to adult form.

8th November: More instances of a person called "Kamui" mentioned, the bureau detain a politician who claims Kamui can "clear" his hue. Bureau completely unaware of the perpetrator inside the mental care centre preaching redemption like Kamui did since all persons inside executed via lethal eliminator. Only sign the cases are linked was the WC? sign scratched on the floor.

15th November: Drone factory instance. Bureau inspectors discover Kamui's hideout and another WC? sign. First visual confirmation of the suspect Kamui and the MIA inspector Shisui working together both by Inspector Tsunemori and enforcer Tougane. Due to communication mishap (?), Hinakawa's report of a second hologram spotted at the scene only discovered on the 15th when an email sent earlier shortly after the incident went missing. Shimotsuki not covering herself in glory for shouting down Hinakawa when he was following orders from Tsunemori to find a hologram model. Examination into hologram model data given by Hinakawa reveals connection with first hologram disguise, eventually leading to a clue on Kamui's past.

]


Viewers are spoiled in knowing the entire chain of events, but I feel sorry for police who have a lot on their plate and with little time to chase down leads which did not appear to be important AT THE TIME THEY WERE FIRST DISCOVERED.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:25 am Reply with quote
The following background information can be found both on the official website and the Japanese wikipedia entry that copies the info word for word.

物語の開始は西暦2112年。作中での世界は2020年頃から始まった新自由主義経済の歪みによる貧富の差の拡大から、世界的な倫理道徳感の崩壊を招き、紛争・犯罪の激化による政情不安のため政府や国の崩壊が起こったという設定になっている。この間、メタンハイドレート開発によるエネルギー自給と、遺伝子強化された小麦・ハイパーオーツの普及による食糧の自給の道を見出した日本は、海外の紛争の余波を食い止めるため、シビュラシステムによる判断とされる鎖国を開始し、他国からの違法入国を水際で防ぐために国境に武装ドローンを配備し、世界で唯一と言える平和な国となっている。そして国をあげて食料自給に力を注ぎ、国内経済の立て直しを図り、企業の国営化と大量の失業者支援のための「職業適性考査」を行う。この「職業適性考査」がやがて発展し、シビュラシステムへの開発とつながり、さらなる進化と試行期間を経て、2070年頃には社会システムの隅々までを包括的に管理するために本格的に社会へ導入された。この頃には食料自給も確立。経済成長と社会安定に成功し、世界で唯一の法治国家としての体裁を成すに至った。
このため、作中世界の日本国民はシビュラシステムに強く依存し、ITやドローン等によってオートメーション化され、サイコパス測定のためのスキャナーに監視された生活・社会活動を送っている。サイコパスや犯罪係数測定による治安維持は、2090年過ぎ頃から実用化されている。

It's the 21st century so everyone who can't read Japanese can use browsers with automatic translators to get a sense of the background behind the series. The above should partially answer HaruhiToy's query on the rationale behind the Sybill system.

The separate entry on the Sybill system dates its full-scale implementation 30 years before the events in the 1st and 2nd season. This is the only piece of information that comes from the manga adaptation, but the timeline of events on the official page is consistent with what is written above.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:07 am Reply with quote
Having re-watched the latest episode about 5-6 times, I think I've answered some of the questions I wasn't sure about thus far.

Regarding Grandma, spoiler[I'm sure there's a reason why her name, affliction and the presiding surgeon was given prominence. I would not be surprised to find the surgeon on one of the 185 aliases employed by Kamui Kirito. ]

Watching a few episodes from the previous week, I'm also certain that spoiler[Kamui's use of drugs and psychology to lower crime coefficients and hue colours is a temporary effect. Unless you're Shisui and perpetually by his side, the effects wear off and the Sybill system flags the minion as a valid target for enforcement. ]

I'd also missed spoiler[Tsunemori's deduction on Sybill's assessment of Kamui. The director neither confirmed nor denied her accusation, but it's safe to say that any incident leading to Kamui's death will not be lead to further investigations of professional negligence by the inspectors. ].

Given the usual attention span for series on this forum and the negative publicity for this series on the forum, I seriously doubt anyone is going to continue discussing this series here for much longer. I'll put up my predictions here and see what the coming weeks bring.
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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11762
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:40 pm Reply with quote
Season 2, episode 8:

Quite an episode with all the buildup until the end. Oh spoiler[Mika, you are useful at long last but this time, you just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. That's a shame.]

A bit of spoiler[secret revealed as well in the latest episode.] spoiler[But still, Mika when you find out too much that's where you're screwed. 3 episodes left and we're getting close to the reality and truth of the Sybil System.]

Oh and the PV got a nice PV today with a key visual earlier today.


Last edited by Stark700 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Finally more about Kamui.
He sure is unique sum of parts.
Also, he's very knowledgeable too.
Kamui is obviously trying to get some kind of revenge.
spoiler[Shimotsuki sure is determined to get rid of Akane.
She always felt threatened by Akane.
Unfortunately she dug herself a hole to die in.]
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:55 pm Reply with quote
Harleyquin wrote:


I'm wasting my time if I post in that forum. I read what is being said there, but I prefer to post my reply here since it's quieter. Users in this forum also seem to be allergic to non-English text, so keeping it here probably makes things easier for the moderators.

It's not about being allergic to non-English text, it's a matter of it's the rules here.

Quote:
2. English Language Usage

These forums are English-language forums. All users are expected to have a working knowledge of proper English. We are not an IM chatroom; we expect proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation. All conversation must be in English. If English is your Second Language, please say so in your first post. If you have a disability that impacts your writing ability (e.g., dyslexia), then please say so in your first post.


Harleyquin wrote:
The following background information can be found both on the official website and the Japanese wikipedia entry that copies the info word for word.

物語の開始は西暦2112年。作中での世界は2020年頃から始まった新自由主義経済の歪みによる貧富の差の拡大から、世界的な倫理道徳感の崩壊を招き、紛争・犯罪の激化による政情不安のため政府や国の崩壊が起こったという設定になっている。この間、メタンハイドレート開発によるエネルギー自給と、遺伝子強化された小麦・ハイパーオーツの普及による食糧の自給の道を見出した日本は、海外の紛争の余波を食い止めるため、シビュラシステムによる判断とされる鎖国を開始し、他国からの違法入国を水際で防ぐために国境に武装ドローンを配備し、世界で唯一と言える平和な国となっている。そして国をあげて食料自給に力を注ぎ、国内経済の立て直しを図り、企業の国営化と大量の失業者支援のための「職業適性考査」を行う。この「職業適性考査」がやがて発展し、シビュラシステムへの開発とつながり、さらなる進化と試行期間を経て、2070年頃には社会システムの隅々までを包括的に管理するために本格的に社会へ導入された。この頃には食料自給も確立。経済成長と社会安定に成功し、世界で唯一の法治国家としての体裁を成すに至った。
このため、作中世界の日本国民はシビュラシステムに強く依存し、ITやドローン等によってオートメーション化され、サイコパス測定のためのスキャナーに監視された生活・社会活動を送っている。サイコパスや犯罪係数測定による治安維持は、2090年過ぎ頃から実用化されている。

It's the 21st century so everyone who can't read Japanese can use browsers with automatic translators to get a sense of the background behind the series. The above should partially answer HaruhiToy's query on the rationale behind the Sybill system.

Just because it's the 21st century does not mean everyone is adept at working a computer, or the intricacies of a browser. And going by what you said if it's so easy you could also translate it yourself and post it.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
Harleyquin wrote:


I'm wasting my time if I post in that forum. I read what is being said there, but I prefer to post my reply here since it's quieter. Users in this forum also seem to be allergic to non-English text, so keeping it here probably makes things easier for the moderators.

It's not about being allergic to non-English text, it's a matter of it's the rules here.

Quote:
2. English Language Usage

These forums are English-language forums. All users are expected to have a working knowledge of proper English. We are not an IM chatroom; we expect proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation. All conversation must be in English. If English is your Second Language, please say so in your first post. If you have a disability that impacts your writing ability (e.g., dyslexia), then please say so in your first post.


Harleyquin wrote:
The following background information can be found both on the official website and the Japanese wikipedia entry that copies the info word for word.

物語の開始は西暦2112年。作中での世界は2020年頃から始まった新自由主義経済の歪みによる貧富の差の拡大から、世界的な倫理道徳感の崩壊を招き、紛争・犯罪の激化による政情不安のため政府や国の崩壊が起こったという設定になっている。この間、メタンハイドレート開発によるエネルギー自給と、遺伝子強化された小麦・ハイパーオーツの普及による食糧の自給の道を見出した日本は、海外の紛争の余波を食い止めるため、シビュラシステムによる判断とされる鎖国を開始し、他国からの違法入国を水際で防ぐために国境に武装ドローンを配備し、世界で唯一と言える平和な国となっている。そして国をあげて食料自給に力を注ぎ、国内経済の立て直しを図り、企業の国営化と大量の失業者支援のための「職業適性考査」を行う。この「職業適性考査」がやがて発展し、シビュラシステムへの開発とつながり、さらなる進化と試行期間を経て、2070年頃には社会システムの隅々までを包括的に管理するために本格的に社会へ導入された。この頃には食料自給も確立。経済成長と社会安定に成功し、世界で唯一の法治国家としての体裁を成すに至った。
このため、作中世界の日本国民はシビュラシステムに強く依存し、ITやドローン等によってオートメーション化され、サイコパス測定のためのスキャナーに監視された生活・社会活動を送っている。サイコパスや犯罪係数測定による治安維持は、2090年過ぎ頃から実用化されている。

It's the 21st century so everyone who can't read Japanese can use browsers with automatic translators to get a sense of the background behind the series. The above should partially answer HaruhiToy's query on the rationale behind the Sybill system.

Just because it's the 21st century does not mean everyone is adept at working a computer, or the intricacies of a browser. And going by what you said if it's so easy you could also translate it yourself and post it.


You wait over a week before finding it worth the effort to criticise my posts?! Someone's got time on their hands.

All my conversations ARE in English, nothing in the rules prohibits me from quoting whole blocks of text in Japanese (last I checked, this is a forum on JAPANESE ANIMATION). I've not used any language other than English to converse with other users. I'm not sure if I've made that many grammatical mistakes to invoke the wrath of the gatecrashing grammar Nazi either.

Feel free to report all of the offending texts as you see fit, I'm amazed someone else didn't bother to do so sooner if it was such a flagrant breach of forum rules. Considering the amount of chatter that goes on in this thread compared to the feedback equivalent, it's perhaps unsurprising.

In the age of Google Translate and in-built translation tools for modern internet browsers, I'm not going to apologise for not translating the text from the wikipedia entry especially since it's long and people like you wouldn't bother with investing time and effort on tasks which wouldn't be acknowledged anyway.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:30 pm Reply with quote
Harleyquin wrote:
You wait over a week before finding it worth the effort to criticise my posts?! Someone's got time on their hands.

It's called I have a life outside this forum and have been busy and not checked all the threads of interest to me in the Anime section the past several days. I'll try my utmost to be quicker with my responses moving forward and not so tardy. Wouldn't want to waste anyone's time.

Harleyquin wrote:
All my conversations ARE in English, nothing in the rules prohibits me from quoting whole blocks of text in Japanese (last I checked, this is a forum on JAPANESE ANIMATION). I've not used any language other than English to converse with other users. I'm not sure if I've made that many grammatical mistakes to invoke the wrath of the gatecrashing grammar Nazi either.

Feel free to report all of the offending texts as you see fit, I'm amazed someone else didn't bother to do so sooner if it was such a flagrant breach of forum rules. Considering the amount of chatter that goes on in this thread compared to the feedback equivalent, it's perhaps unsurprising.

I never said you haven't conversed in English now did I? You clearly wanted to insult the userbase here by saying, in a very snooty tone, most here seem to "be allergic to non-english text". So you opened that door. I simply pointed out the reasoning behind why people have an issue with it here. It's not simple laziness on the members part but part of the rules. As is proper grammar and using complete sentences since you bring up grammar nazis. As the saying goes, "Don't hate the player, hate the game." I would hazard a guess that perhaps beyond what you say it's the insulting and derogatory attitude you appear to have consistently that might have caused others to report you. Not sure if you have been, or how many times, reported but if you have that might be a part of it.

Harleyquin wrote:
In the age of Google Translate and in-built translation tools for modern internet browsers, I'm not going to apologise for not translating the text from the wikipedia entry especially since it's long and people like you wouldn't bother with investing time and effort on tasks which wouldn't be acknowledged anyway.

Alright you don't know jack diddly about me so how about you not presume to know what I would or would not, or others for that matter, invest my time in. For starters I simply pointed out the rules and why some people may have had issues with you or reported you in the past as you wanted to insult the user base here on that topic. Secondly, I don't care if you apologize personally for not translating the text.. If you don't want to do it because you don't feel you'd be personally gratified enough for doing it than that's your decision. In the age of google translation or not it's simply polite and common curtesy to translate such text when adding it into a conversation where the people do not speak/read said language primarily. It's simply polite etiquette in a conversation. You do whatever it is you like however, your choice. I won't waste more of your time on the subject.

edit- Rather than make a new post and continue I will simply add this as an edit. If your little comment about trying to impress the mods is directed at me than once again you should really stop pretending to know what I am thinking or presume to know me. I don't need to, nor care to, impress anyone on an online forum. Moderator or otherwise. Period. If it's directed at another specific user than that's their deal and again I don't care as it's their issue. I posted my mind because I happen to enjoy this forum and you were directly insulting the user base here with a wide blanket judgment stemming from an ignorant opinion. If it was someone else and I saw it I'd say the same thing to them because such comments are simply rude. As for your insinuation about picking a fight, dude you really need to lay off the machismo and take it down a notch. This is an online anime forum, not fight club. You were being rude and ignorant and I commented on it. End of story. Now since I have said my peace I'm walking away as further discussion is OT and probably pointless I would wager. Enjoy yourself.


Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:54 pm Reply with quote
Exhibit A: One grammar Nazi overly eager to notify and impress the forum moderators. I did offer you the chance to report my posts even if you haven't done so already.

If you're going to pick a fight, you might as be upfront about it. If everyone was as civic-minded as you are now, I wouldn't be able to respond to the posts since the moderators would have taken the hard line and suspended/banned me already. They probably might by tomorrow with people like you around to egg them on.

There might be others out there who can spend 15-20 minutes on translating a passage which is only of interest to the one person I was trying to respond to with a question which I could only find the answer to in the Japanese wikipedia, I don't think it's worth using 15-20 minutes to do a translation. No one's going to bother reading it even if I did put up a translation, especially since I'm taking a contrarian position and just about every user ignoring my posts in the first place.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:43 pm Reply with quote
Getting back on topic, episode #8:

I didn't expect the denouement in the last few scenes, but the hints had been given from earlier episodes. No action compared to #6, but a lot of pieces to the puzzle have now been provided to allow viewers to figure out what might happen next.

spoiler[ Kamui being the 22nd century equivalent of Frankenstein does explain why he is completely invisible. I was wrong in thinking a member of the Sybill system was responsible for downing the jet (it does appear to have been an accident), but that same hint from the earlier episode really referred to Toogane Misako's involvement in this entire case. ]

spoiler[ Saiga's doing the same trick he and Kougami played just before Kougami went to kill Makishima. It's a little disconcerting, but I suppose Clinical Psychiatrists have their ways of extracting information from a patient to make a diagnosis. ]

spoiler[ I had suspected revenge as a primary motivator for Kamui, but the target does surprise me. Although Shimotsuki's analysis is eventually proven false by the bureau chief, it does appear via Kamui's own modification of the archive information Shimotsuki was reading that not everything in the data available to the public is a complete fabrication. ]

spoiler[ Building on the theme of medical advances proposed in the first season, medical technology in this series appears to be sufficiently advanced to allow multiple organ transfers without risk of biological rejection. Not quite the same as turning a full human body plus brain into a cyborg, but not inconsistent with the level of cybernetic body part replacements. ]

spoiler[ Although briefly mentioned in the 1st season when Saiga and Kougami tried to figure out Makishima's motivations, the idea of societal rejection and an individual backlash against a tyrannical system which reinforces rejection is again reiterated through the new script writer. Despite his biological grafts, Kamui is definitely talented enough to have mastered the skills he needs to put his grand scheme into place. ]

spoiler[ Toogane being the 22nd century equivalent of Iago from Shakespeare's Othello is clear enough, but contrasting him with Kamui (and to Saiga in a different context) needs a couple of rewatches to better ascertain the intended effect on viewers. At least, the OP animation featuring Toogane and the dominator starts to make sense at this point. ]

spoiler[ As for Shimotsuki Mika herself, it looks like she's going down the same rabbit hole that Tsunemori was invited to go down in the first season; albeit in drastically different circumstances and entirely against her will. Since she's obviously alive in the movie trailer, some kind of accommodation must have been reached between her, Toogane and the hive mind. ]

spoiler[ I don't know if the show is implying Toogane Misako was invited to the hive mind on the back of her medical achievements or based on her latent ability as an individual whose pass could not be accurately assessed. It might well be a combination of both. I'm certain she's not a "pioneer" member of the hive mind system since the accident occurred 15 years ago while the Panopticon catastrophe the surgeon and Saiga talked about pre-dates the full-scale implementation of the Sybill System. ]

Now that most of the cards are out on the table, this season might use the same trick the first one did by pitting Kamui's final magic act against the Bureau's attempts to pre-empt his actions. Since the
spoiler[wrist gizmos which fool the dominators into accepting unauthorised users ] have been mass-produced, it's only a matter of time before Kamui finds his perfect location and timing.
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 4118
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:36 pm Reply with quote
So one question I would like everyone to answer is do you feel sorry for Shimotsuki Mika or not?

Sure she is a cowardly self-righteous backstabbing little prig who is useless in a crisis. But jeez..
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:56 pm Reply with quote
HaruhiToy wrote:
So one question I would like everyone to answer is do you feel sorry for Shimotsuki Mika or not?

Sure she is a cowardly self-righteous backstabbing little prig who is useless in a crisis. But jeez..


The answer depends on what happens to her next episode from my perspective. At present the only thing happening to her spoiler[is being physically restrained and given information against her will ] at present.

She's probably everyone's most hated character in the cast, I simply see her as a typical example of the type of inspector the world setting tends to produce. It also highlights how much of an oddity Tsunemori is amongst the inspectors.
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Raftina



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 3282
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:57 pm Reply with quote
Unlike many people in these forums, I did not dislike Mika. Actually, this episode was the only one in which I was annoyed with her--she had uncovered excellent investigative material, but instead of sharing it with her team to remove only Togane--and possibly help move the case against Kamui forward--all she did with the material was for petty office politics.

In retrospect, this was consistent with her behavior in season 1: This was the same sort of pettiness that led to the tragedy with her friend.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2855
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:18 pm Reply with quote
Raftina wrote:
Unlike many people in these forums, I did not dislike Mika. Actually, this episode was the only one in which I was annoyed with her--she had uncovered excellent investigative material, but instead of sharing it with her team to remove only Togane--and possibly help move the case against Kamui forward--all she did with the material was for petty office politics.

In retrospect, this was consistent with her behavior in season 1: This was the same sort of pettiness that led to the tragedy with her friend.


Petty office politics? I suppose it's one way of looking at this episode.

Turn the scenario around. Had she submitted her findings to Tsunemori privately, Toogane might still have been retained but with Tsunemori more wary around his presence (the entire bureau is so short-handed they'd rather risk having him trying to slowly corrupt Tsunemori than lose a pair of hands and a useable Dominator against the coming storm).

Note also that Shimotsuki in her previous conversation with the bureau chief asked for leniency for Tsunemori. One perspective would be petty insubordination, the other might perhaps be she's misguided since she cannot identify or empathise with Tsunemori's thought processes and actions from a purely conventional inspector's point of view.

Shimotsuki effectively takes on the role Ginoza used to play in season 1, only ratcheted up a few notches because of her age (she remains the youngest inspector ever recruited which might explain the chip on her shoulder, at this point I think she's still underage).
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