Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! The Apology Song
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||||||
|
Marathoning can be a lot of fun with shounen like Bleach and Naruto, but I really regret speed reading Seinen like Pluto. Now I'm waiting for each GN of 20th Century Boys to come out and enjoying it at a decent (somewhat slow) pace.
Anime is not better, it just has more variety in terms of tone, subject matter and demographic appeal. If the Comics Code hadn't prevailed in the US, the growth of mature illustrated stories for teens and adults wouldn't have been stunted, and both graphic novels and animation might just be as diverse and interesting here as it is there. But the gems of both mediums stand out from all corners of the world- from Gargoyles and Avatar (TV animation) in the US to Persepolis (GN and movie) and The Triplets of Bellville in France. Not to mention comics like Pyongyang, Maus, The Tale of One Bad Rat, Y: The Last Man, (etc, etc, etc) and countless webcomics from all over the world. People who write these lists tend to discount animated shows or movies in the US just because they are primarily designed to entertain children. Shows like Arthur and the (late, great) Animaniacs are entertaining, well done and appeal to all ages, and most, if not all, animated movies are designed for everyone as well (I'm personally looking forward to The Fantastic Mr. Fox). |
||||||||
|
||||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||
It's your imagination because anime has often been made off incomplete manga. I believe the authors of Marmalade Boy & Kodocha both complained they had been asked to drag things out longer because of the anime running longer than the authors originally planned for their stories to end. Saint Seiya was not finished when the anime was started nor was Dragonball. One Piece manga & anime are both ongoing. Bleach.
The Japanese seem to have a greater tolerance for non-endings. I have never understood American anime fans insistance on a clearcut ending. It really doesn't happen in real life. Even when one thing is finished in your life, don't you have other things going?
I see it as more strike while the iron's hot. Yeah, they COULD have waited to make the first Harry Potter movie until after the last volume was published, but why? Vampires are hot now. Wait until the author finished Vampire Knight to make the anime when the fans have adopted their "been there/done that" attitude? One Piece's manga is still running so they'd be waiting a very long time to make an anime out of that one.
Miaka is a socially stunted , sex-obsessed loser, leering creepily at her 7 guardians and and devising wacky schemes to sneak a peek at their underpants? Akane's doing the same? (she actually seemed more interested in Akram). That is such a spot on description of Shurei Hong from Saiunkoku, isn't it? My god, we have rape(ok, you know they try hard), death, & torture in Fushigi Yugi. No, no plot development. No drama. No tension. Yui doesn't need to die an ugly death for being a stupid beeyotch (not that she does...) Tamahome's family tragedy is comedy. Chichiri wears that mask because he loves masquerade. THere were those siblings in the OVA--how hilarious! Saiunkoku's just lighthearted fare-no drama, no tension, no development. Don't dismiss harem. It serves its purpose in life & in a broad perspective, yeah, I consider Gundam Wing, 00 & Seed to fit the harem mold because hot guys/gals for the viewers' pleasure are part of the package. Not that they ARE harem titles, but the characters are conveniently easy on the eyes. I don't recall our hero from Love Hina as really interested in more than one gal. I don't really recall out hero from Saber Marionette as being interested in most of the gals. I don't recall Tenchi being all that interested in any of the gals in his home. You know, we don't all like the same stuff. I spend my days talking to convicted felons so when I go home, I want to laugh. Maybe I'm up to something serious (working one 2nd Gig right now), & I love horror, but not having to worry about the plot & drooling over the guys or laughing at the stupid dude dealing with all the chicks is fun sometimes. Frogs are fun, also. Yeah Kururu! |
||||||||
|
||||||||
vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
|
|||||||
That's probably because I couldn't follow your argument; I don't want to be mean, but your posts are often... disjointed. You clarified yourself by saying that you feel Family Guy is limiting itself, when animation could be used for something as creative as Gankutsuou. What I'm saying is that Family Guy is an animated sitcom parody. There's absolutely no point in comparing it to something like Gankutsuou. The only things you have in America comparable to Gankutsuou would be done in live action. The real problem isn't the quality of American animation, it's its lack of diversity. I hope Brian picks my answer so you can get the complete argument with all its qualifications.
Psht, I read 20th Century Boys in under a week. Hey, finals were over, I didn't have anything to do. It was... well, a very different experience than reading it slowly, but I loved it. Now, picking it up volume by volume as it's released here, I can understand some of the frustrations reviewers feel with the events unraveling slowly. EVerything felt break-neck when I was reading 4 volumes a day.  But having read Pluto the first time around via online scans, I think Urasawa's work was meant to be read in their original format of one chapter every other week, like a serial.
WHAT?!?! American comic books, not diverse and interesting? Where have you been the last 25 years?!? Go read Watchmen, The Sandman Chronicles, Fun Home, Transmetropolitan, and Gotham Central before you say something idiotic like that. Sure, we don't have romacom comic books, but that's just because we lack a female demographic, not because comic books aren't diverse. Last edited by vashfanatic on Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Quark
 Posts: 710 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
|
|||||||
|
Oh lawdy, I just sent an answer. A very, very long answer. Brian, I'm sorry for the horribly long answer.
It boggles the mind that someone is comparing Family Guy to Gankutsuo here...the only thing the two shows have in common is that they're animated. They're in completely different genres, and are different in tone, story telling, etc. Vashfanatic, you're so right that American animation would be much better if they were given a chance to be more diverse, and to try more. But maybe it's because there's not enough of an audience it. It seems like most people want loud, abrasive, pop-culture filled cartoons, like Family Guy. That being said though, if you look hard enough, you can find some really great stuff, even in the standard sitcom-style cartoon. Anyway, about the marathoning anime thing - it depends on what I'm watching. I watched all of Koi Kaze in two days, and when I watch Fushigi Yuugi, I tend to watch about 8-10 episodes a day. However, something like Aria will take me about 8 months to finish. Right now I'm watching Twelve Kingdoms, and I might watch 4 episodes one day, watch one episode 2 days later, and then leave it alone for a week. If I'm forcing myself to marathon something, it's just not as fun. To watch something when the mood strikes you is much more enjoyable. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
|
|||||||
I agree, forcing yourself doesn't work. I tried to do that to catch up with Phantom, and just couldn't make it. Now I watch a few episodes a week, when I feel like it. Then again, there are other series where, if I start them, I feel compelled to do a marathon. Gankutsuou is one of them; so is Baccano! and Revolutionary Girl Utena. I just can't stop if I start them! |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||||||
|
Vash, you're preaching to the choir here. I appreciate all the wonderful, culturally relevant comics that have started coming to the fore in the past 25 years. But where are our comic writing rock stars? Our Tezukas, Takahashis, Urasawas, Watases? Where are our fantasies for girls, romances for boys, slice-of-life dramedies for everyone? Why are critics so shocked whenever a nonfiction or literary graphic novel comes out? Why did I hear a critic question the value of letting her daughter read "Diary of a Wimpy Kid" 'because it's "just" a comic book?
If censorship hadn't won in the '50's, how would comics in America, and animation by extension, might have evolved? |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
|
|||||||
You mean our Moores, Gaimans, Millers, Morrisons, and Ellises?
So what you're really complaining about is that comic books aren't mainstream over here. I'll give you that. The mainstream public only knows about Spiderman and Superman, they don't know about Dykes to Watch Out For. But I won't give you this:
They might have been darker and edgier, but they wouldn't necessarily have been any more mainstream or have expanded out of the superhero niche any faster. You're forgetting that Japan had a history of "picture books" for everyone (romances, fantasies, comedies, you name it) long before comic books came out in America. Picture books in the West were always perceived as being for children, as were early comic books. That's why they censored them - because they were "corrupting the innocent." Censorship may have played a role in dumbing them down, but from the beginning there wasn't yet a strong market for adult comic books and certainly none for female-targeted ones. Ours have been so closely tied to the teenager-male superhero genre that it's only been recently that they've started breaking out of that mold. It wasn't censorship that stifled comic books in America, it was just knowing that the market isn't there. While I'd love to see more American authors step outside the normal market, I know financially that's not going to happen, at least not any time soon. And do you know what's filling those niches, so that comic books don't have to expand out? Manga. And is that such a bad thing? A whole generation of readers are getting exposed to the idea that comic books might be mainstreamed. They'll grow up to be the writers who will accomplish it. I feel the same about the future of American animation. Look at Avatar: The Last Airbender, a series highly influenced by anime because its creators are anime fans. It's all global now, and anime and manga are going to influence American animation and comic books over time the same way American animation and comic boks influenced anime and manga. [edited to expand my argument] Last edited by vashfanatic on Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Stretch24
Posts: 107 Location: Ohio |
|
|||||||
|
CCSYueh wrote:
Yes, things go on interminably all the time in real life, but an anime isn't supposed to be a "reality" show, it's supposed to be a work of entertainment. Doesn't the art of storytelling demand some sort of climax? Since one will generally be delivered by the manga author eventually, I'd say it was never his or her intention to do without it. My guess is that anime companies really must snap up their titles ASAP, but can't afford to let their money sit idle while they wait for the intended conclusion. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
|
|||||||
Oh, my mistake! I thought that this was "Annmarie News Network"! D: |
||||||||
|
||||||||
vision1
 Posts: 30 Location: Charlotte NC |
|
|||||||
|
The one thing that vexes me about your apology is that it (appears, from your writing) to have been made only because of the discovery of the identity of the person you insulted. That article and it's argument could have been made by anyone, like me for example, and I'm not a Person of Notoriety.. so I suppose I really would remain just a stupid, ignorant, immature baby?
My biggest problem is that this sort of behavior is everywhere and seems to be considered the acceptable refuge for those who have either lost the ability to stay intellectually afoot with the person they disagree with, or have nothing to support their flimsy logic with so they degenerate into attacks, calling people stupid, ignorant, hypocrites, invoking Godwin's Law, etc. I can't remember the number of teenagers who have filled my inboxes with paragraphs of crap comparing me to (both) infants and various third-world dictators, and how obviously I don't just know how smart they are, and so on and so on. They have wikipedia at their side afterall, and are backed up with thousands of kewl friends who are young and hip like they are. You're smarter than this, and it's not at all out of line to lambast the guy you disagree with, but for the first thought to be simply a denunciation of their intellect to the point that they are clearly infantile, is beyond acceptable toward anyone- notoriously cool author or not. At the end of the day, I agree with your opinion about animation more. But I think all of Anime Fandom (if there is such a thing) need to pull up their (our) britches and be big kids, and stop calling people stupid, retarded, or Hitler because we disagree. No matter how ridiculous their opinions may be, and no matter how many 'stupid' people we think there are on the internet, it doesn't reflect positively on you, on anime, or on human communication. Argue with facts, well thought out and constructed discourse, intelligent comparisons, acknowledgement of the other's right to opinion, positive attitude and politeness, not just emotion. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
zrdb
|
|
|||||||
|
I have no respect for Beveridge or his "holier than thou art" rantings on AOD-the only reason I go there is to read anime reviews. Some of the older us cartoons were very well done-ever see some of old black and white Superman animated shorts? Hell-I grew up watching stuff like Looney Toons, a lot of the Hanna Barberra drivel (The Flintstones, Jetsons, Yogi Bear, Topcat etc.)-but a lot of it was generally well done.
|
||||||||
|
bakaShin
Posts: 102 |
|
|||||||
|
Sorry, but Anime >>>>> Cartoons. I have a strong belief that Japanese Animation is generally better than American Animation. Sure there are many gems that stand out from the bunch but they are most likely Animated Movies, where time and effort were actually placed in the creation of it. Most modern cartoons are stupid. They are situational comedies that focus on childish and crude humor.
Incomplete endings exist simply because it would mean closure. Ending a popular series would mean the death of the series. Why would you want to kill your golden goose. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 363 Location: Finland |
|
|||||||
That's pretty much as diverse as Stanley Kubrick, Quentin Tarantino and Martin Scorsese directing all the American movies. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||
What is this supposed to mean? Are you disagreeing with him or agreeing?
Anime is actually a type of cartoon so your faux equation is contradictory. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 363 Location: Finland |
|
|||||||
Nihilism, cursing, edgyness and explicit violence. Tezuka's output alone is more diverse than that, although he also made use of those elements. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group