Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2009-12-04]
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Dragynstorm
 Posts: 131 |
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I want to say something regarding release dates with manga...
Sure, translating manga may not take a long time, but getting manga out to the American public is a lot more than just translating it. After translation, the script needs to be edited, then approved, then given to letterers. At this point it could take anywhere from a week to a month or more to letter the volume. Then the lettering has to be checked, corrections are made, then it has to be approved (sometimes by the original Japanese publisher), then sent to the printers, then to the sellers... there's a lot more to it than some people realize. And then of course, like Brian said, there's the whole marketing aspect of it. Another reason Naruto was able to come out so quickly is because an enormous amount of people were working on it. All that said, there are plenty of titles that, in my opinion, should indeed be released sooner. I don't know why it takes so long for each volume of Pumpkin Scissors to be released. I wouldn't mind if it was to match the pace of the Japanese release, but it just seems so slow! =) |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Thanks for that! I understood Brian's point about art being subjective... (I still know people that think xxxHolic's art is great, one of them being my ex, a graphic arts major! Personally, I hate it.) Still, I think there are some clear parameters for judging the quality of art and animation and that was a great outline you made there! I wholeheartedly agree! (The part about poor Ichigo made me ROFL, oh MAN, does he change width and bone structure a...lot.  Maybe even head height, too! What's up with that? O_o ) Not that subjectivity isn't there with art, but it's...commercial art. That commercial part has values attached that make it "worth it" or not. Worth the price or worth it to the story.
Like, Berserk's art is maybe not "amazing," but it's pretty top-grade stuff. The animation, however, is poo, not just by today's standards, but compared to other titles of that year, it's just sad. After finishing RahXephon, I might have the opposite complaint. The art was good but it wasn't as good as Evangelion's, Xam'd's or Eureka Seven's if we're comparing. I think the weird compromise between the super-deformed generic anime face and more realistic proportions made it hard for the designs to be as expressive as they should have been sometimes. It was a little off...GREAT animation in RahX, though! Outstanding! ...Tangent. Every so often we get an Escaflowne that offers the best of both aspects or a Fushigi Yuugi that barely squeaks by on both counts, but I guess whatever can support the themes and story is best. (Ugh! The FINAL BATTLE in Fushigi Yuugi was all speed lines. At LEAST spend some money on the final battle!)
Yeah, I thought as much as well. I really loved the art, but it wasn't terribly uniform seeing as the character designs themselves were pretty standard on top of these very storybookish watercolor paintings. One thing that helped them blend, though, was this heavy use of diagonal pencil lines in all the backgrounds. You notice that? Since the character designs were so sharp and jagged as well, that harsh linework in both places lightened the contrast a little so it wasn't so jarring. The opening flashback is the best indicator of this, maybe the only place where it looks TRULY uniform.
As for the Answerfans question this week, I actually REALLY want to answer it but A) It's not a "what if" for me, it's a "what I did," and B) I work for ANN, so duh, NO. 
...but I still kinda want to share this with whoever feels like reading it. When I first decided I wanted to do reviews...well, first of all, they were in a video format, so that changes a lot. Written editorial-style reviews and video reviews are completely different in process and presentation. But I decided to use the grading scale Roger Ebert kinda swore by and popularized amongst most serious critics. (I don't know if he came up with it or not, there's not much info about the history of the scale on the web that I could find.  )
Three reasons for this. One, it's surprisingly waffle-proof. Once you've decided on a rating, it's highly unlikely that you'll change it even after subsequent viewings. Often a movie/series just seems to FIT one based on its own artistic merit. Even if one 2.5 is better than another 2.5, they're both very clearly a 2.5 and past that, people can use their own judgment about whether they'd like it. Two, people seem to understand it very easily. Maybe a B- (not dissing ANN's scale, just using it as an example!) means something really bad to one person, and "pretty good" to another person. For whatever reason, maybe because I listed out what each star means and that's REALLY the only reason, I don't often have to explain whether 3 is "good" or "just okay," or whatever. Three, and this is stupid, but...don't people compartmentalize things much better in groups of seven? I've heard it's a myth, I've heard it's true, but I'm pretty sure it's true, and there you go. Seven categories. ... Past that, I ended up actually starting a website with several other reviewers. (It's the "www" button at the bottom of my profile if you're curious, I don't want to plug really...and yet I do! )
But we decided what might make the site work is if we all chose each other based on complementary styles of videos. Two guys, two girls. One bitingly sarcastic reviewer of bad titles, one general informative reviewer (the only one among us who discusses packaging, actually,) one more opinionated freelance girl who also emphasizes humor, and...me. I don't know what I am.  I've been told I'm the extremely analytical snarky one. I'm also the only one who uses a grading scale, the other three work with the "yay or nay" format.
So we balance each other, and we also do collaborative projects like the weekly sketch/news show organized by our fifth member and the weekly podcast, along with more fun tidbits that aren't so "review-ish." So we thought the only way to make a review site unique and exciting anymore was to make it a variety site full of all sorts of fun junk. We're hoping to do an awards show in January too, so that's going to be...interesting.
But yeah, I suggest anyone that wants to start a really intriguing site/review series for anime and manga to find a hook that works. Define a style that might make some people want to follow your work and be proud of it! Also, the biggest thing: BE CONSISTENT, do NOT go on constant hiatuses and produce work "whenever you feel like it"...and surround yourself with other talented otaku too!  That always makes it better and helps motivate you to do better!
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Are you the same person I was having this idiotic argument with on another channel? If so, go read my response there. I have read the book. Everything Gankutsuou changed about the plot of The Count of Monte Cristo was a positive one, particularly in regards to the female characters. You're entitles to your opinion of the series, however completely wrong I may think it to be. But the claim that if one had read the book, one would not like Gankutsuou is absurd. |
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Otaking09
 Posts: 637 |
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Well said, vashfanatic, well said... Honestly, this topic isn't even about "what we think", it's about the power of influence that professional reviews can have... You just turned this into a debate, just because I mentioned favorites. Not cool giascle, not cool... vashfanatic has a point: everyone hs opinions, if they're irrational; keep them to yourself... that's all you have to do! I love Eureka Seven and Welcome to the NHK! All I was saying was how reviews had affected me about viewing. As for Gankutsuou: No true anime fan could denounce Gankustuou... Almost no one... I'm done talking, it's time to finish the last ep of Baccano!... |
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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What a boring way to live that would be. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4576 |
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Regarding the topic of animation quality, I think one can make reasonably-objective statements about it from a strictly technical standpoint, at least when compared to more subjective areas like overall art design and character development. I mean, if you sat anyone down in front of Macross Plus, and they stated that they felt that Itano's aerial combat sequences weren't incredibly well-animated...then they'd be flat-out wrong. Completely, objectively wrong. The fluidity, the framerate, and most of all the jaw-dropping detail in every frame make those fight scenes just about the best pieces of raw animation I've seen from any country. I do have to agree that there's more to animation quality than sheer framerate, although as the aforementioned example shows, having more frames to work with is just about always beneficial. The more stylistic aspects of animation, including how frames are grouped and how individual elements are allowed to flow and change shape, are also a big factor. I think a good example of this is Kaiba, which took its crazy Seussian art style and put it through some amazing sequences of deformation and crazy camera angles. In any case, I think the skill of the director and the individual animators usually winds up coming through; if they really know their stuff, then you'll be able to tell it.
As far as art and character design is concerned, I do feel like there's more room for subjectivity there, since you're looking at the aesthetics of a scene as opposed to how said scene is moving. There are instances where how a certain artist draws characters flat-out clicks with some people, whereas it doesn't do anything at all for others. For example, it took some time for Eiichiro Oda's rather unique style that he exhibits in One Piece to grow on me, but it eventually did, and now I greatly enjoy his character designs. In contrast, I find most of CLAMP's work to be utterly goofy, and I flat-out dislike Akira Toriyama's character designs, even though I know both of them have legions of fans. As a few other people have mentioned, I'm also frustrated when people mash the elements of art design and animation together and mistake strengths in one for strengths in the other, since it makes discussion on the relative merits of each all the more difficult. |
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Renaisance Otaku
 Posts: 469 Location: Modesto, CA |
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Well that's one's even rarer. I just got a copy of it myself not too long ago. The dub was made in Hong Kong as an english learning device. It's sort of an amusing oddity.
HG admitted that "they were asleep" when USR and later Manga brought in II and Plus. They woke up just in time to stop Manga from importing Plus toys. As for AnimEigo and ADV, that's dealing with the first series, which they know they have full rights to here, so it was probably a smoother process. They even got AnimEigo's remastered footage out of the deal since HG's print was in the best shape for the restoration, hence why ADV got to use it but not the Japanese audio, which AnimEigo brought from Japan. Since then, HG made the effort to copyright the Macross name. They're not the only thing holding them back, but they really are the 800lb Gorilla. Robotech's all they've got in this industry and they'll hold onto it to it's dying gasp.
Agreed. It should also be pointed out that DYRL really represents the anime industry during the 80s bubble. DYRL is a huge budgeted, beautifully animated film made in a little under a year or so with completely new designs and animation to capitalize on a surprise hit TV series. Story problems or no, it's animation still holds up today and without the assistance of CGI. You just don't see stuff like that anymore. Even the Frontier movie reuses some of the TV series animation. Personally I enjoyed Speed Grapher and loved Gankutsuou (which if you think is better than the book is no more valid or invalid as thinking it's worst than the book), but I'm not really following that discussion. I also was rather bitter at the Evangelion bashing during Rahxephon's release so much I told off Suncoast's magazine about it (it was obvious the guy was just writing from buzz and had probably not even seen enough of both shows). It almost got published in their final issue. I used to follow reviews and use them as a gauge to see what to check out. Even then though, i mostly used them to find out what something was about, and if it sounded interesting. Now, I really don't give them too much weight. The packaging on Last Exile alone reminds me why. I'm the type that can be irritated by overpositive reviews of stuff I though was average at best. It makes me wonder if I'm missing something or what. 
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giascle
 Posts: 157 Location: Denver |
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No I'm not, but in any case that was obviously an over-simplification. Not every single person ever who enjoyed Gankutsuou hasn't read the book, but that's the case for most.
Actually, other people turned it into a debate. I'm just jumping on because it's fun. You should always state your opinion, what possible reason is there not to? If someone disagrees, who cares; someone is always going to disagree. Just enjoy the debate, because both sides can learn from it. I'm not really denouncing Gankustuou, I'm just saying The Count of Monte Cristo is better. Gonzo can make good shows, but in every instance I can think of, the original work is better. |
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Case
Posts: 1016 |
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I'm that moran actually, and I just encountered your post a couple of hours ago and just finished pounding out a quick reply. Enjoy! |
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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Good post, thanks, Spartydragon.
One thing often cited as classic bad animation is something I actually quite like. I'm talking about fight scenes where they use a lot of stills: attack moves with "rush" backgrounds, and kill moves with just a slight pull-out. For me personally, these devices can increase the drama of the fight, and they're interesting because it's a technique unique to anime (or used to be). Heh. Another thing I like, since I first noticed it in Initial D, is shots of ice settling in a drink glass. I now notice these occasionally, and I'm wondering if they're an animators in-joke, a demonstration of virtuosity, or just something they were all forced to do in animator's school.
Unless it's Gundam Seed
Another thing I love about anime is the high quality painted backgrounds they often use. Whether it's a gorgeous country scene or a busy cityscape, it's hard sometimes to believe that the artist puts all his talent into creating these things, and then they're usually only used ONCE, often only for a second or two. I mean forget buying animation cells, it's the backgrounds I'd really love to have on my walls! |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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I didn't call you a moron, I said this argument was idiotic because you allege that reading the book means anyone would obviously know that the anime is superior. In reading your very long post, I think you're missing my bigger point when talking about women by listing off bad girls as being more active female characters. This was the 1800s; "good girls" toe the line and need a man to help them. I disagree with your interpretation of Valentine, for starters, and I do think their relationship was dull and a rather vapid Victorian cliche. I liked their characters a lot more in the anime. Haydee not bursting into tears And 200 pages didn't "end up in the trash," they just opted to start it in media res, which again goes to "not knowing everything before it happens," as in the book. And your dismissal of the plot thread with Franz - many Gankutsuou fans that's their favorite addition. We love animeFranz. If you didn't, sorry. 
I know I may have come across as hating the novel, but I did like it There are bits, some of which you mentioned with Haydee, that I wouldn't mind have seeing more of in the anime. But I liked Gankutsouou more because of how dated it felt in its style and attitudes; there are other books from the same period that don't turn my stomach or drive me to boredom The Count of Monte Cristo did, so I refuse to say it's just because I don't appreciate "classical literature" either. I don't really want to continue on this because internet forums are hardly a medium conducive to serious debate, but I stand behind what I said about the portryal of women (even if I did forget all the details about Haydee, it's been a while), and I didn't even touch on the orientalism and racism (poor Ali! I lost most sympathy with Edmond Dantes after that story). However within the bounds of switching this to a science fiction setting (something I do not think is an inherently bad idea) things needed to be changed - including, yes, updating the cultural and political situation because it would be post-Napoleanic. If what you wanted was a rigid translation of the book exactly as it is... well, that wouldn't work in large part due to its reliance on long stretches of expository dialog (I repeat, written in Dumas' voice; these characters all sound like the same person). But this isn't a strict adaption. It never was, beginning with the sci-fi setting. I much rather would have them change things instead of just sticking giant robots into the original without really changing anything else like they did with Samurai 7. To me if you're going to change something a little, you might as well change it a lot and make it your own thing. Perhaps if Geneon hadn't subtitled it "The Count of Monte Cristo" and instead said "loosely based on the Count of Monte Cristo," your reaction might not have been so visceral, I don't know. But yes, opinions on "better" ultimately vary. And I know that embattled minority opinions tend to be more vocal than the majority (I never miss a chance to bash Beyond the Clouds if I can). |
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Case
Posts: 1016 |
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I guess my underlying point is not that the Count of Monte Cristo is inherently superior: The point is that in spite of dramatic and dubious changes made to the tone and outcomes by Gonzo, fully 50% of the original content remains. It's still a story of aristocratic power struggle depriving a simple sailor of his austere but happy life, and his righteous quest to exactingly rebalance the scales of fortune when fate finally turns in his favor. The characters are mostly the same with only three glaring exceptions. It's even still set in Paris, Autueil and Marseilles. Almost anything you want to give Gonzo credit for ultimately derives from Alexandre Dumas' pen, except the visual element and specifics of the punishments for 3 of the 4 parties involved. Gonzo's direct contributions to the story were constrained at best. Make no mistake: I'm by no means demanding that they go back in time and make Gankutsuou a strict adaptation. To put it as charitably as I can, I just wish their changes had been more intimately in the spirit of the original work so they would have deserved the praise you give them. When in reality, what one might really accuse them of doing is engineering whatever cheap excuses they could come up with to insert Star Wars-esque space warfare, giant robots, pretty trap boys, and cliched victimhood moralization that otaku worldwide generally lap up. As my initial post in the other thread pointed out: Accepted characteristics of the very worst of Gonzo's other work. Go ahead, prefer Gankutsuou if it does something for you! Anyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don't try to brush off the fact that Gankutsuou is ultimately an adaptation of a highly regarded work of classic literature, that preserves and relies upon the core storytelling elements thereof. (Oh, and regarding poor Ali and losing most of your sympathy: It may surprise you to learn that Alexandre Dumas was 1/4 African in heritage? Google it.) |
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B.K.
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Some of the worst animation I've seen in an anime was in an episode of Noein. I caught a few episodes of it here and there when it was on Ani-Monday on Sci-Fi channel. I don't know what episode it was, but in one episode, two characters were fighting each other. The animation was so horrible that it literally looked like an animatic. I've actually seen animatics that were better animated than that fight scene was.
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minakichan
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Man, I don't like CLAMP either, but there's no need to be mean...
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eyeresist
Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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I think that was actually a deliberate style choice. In the first couple of episodes, the art has a slightly "experimental" look (with characters looking unusually angular, and moves having a stretchy quality), and after that, this look is limited mostly to the fight scenes. |
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