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nagato316



Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 306
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:39 pm Reply with quote
So here's the question...how long before Econ teachers/professors get wind of Spice and Wolf and start incorporating clips from the series into classes and lectures? Seriously (but then this is my incurable inner geek and his memories of Macro and Micro talking--yes I got A's in those classes), the econ elements of Spice and Wolf would draw me in to watch. After all, at a time where lots of folks are complaining about the lack of diversity in anime recently ("there's too much *insert genre here* being made"), it's understandable that said otaku with said complaints are gravitating toward such an "out of left field" title.

Speaking of "out of left field"--Vib Ribbon?! Congrats Zac and Justin; nice shout-out to an obscure PSone game for a most Epic Win.
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:48 pm Reply with quote
einhorn303 wrote:
Hey, I got mentioned on ANNcast (re: the wife comment). I feel vindicated somehow.


When I heard about Holo and wife comment, I nearly chocked on my breakfast from laughing so hard.

I haven't made the jump to Blu-ray mainly because A) There is only one TV in the house that I live that could support Blu-ray and b) not enough titles out for me to justify a purchase. I'm fine with DVD's and I'm oging to wait until Blu-ray players and Blu-ray discs get lower in price before I made the jump over, but that will mostly be several more years before I do so.
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Pandadice



Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:08 pm Reply with quote
Ryo Hazuki wrote:
Pandadice wrote:

we just need a modern Ralph Bakshi. He was an animated film auteur, and strong pushes of the "animation isn't just for kids" ideal back in like the 60-70s. and he made the first animated x-rated film.

There's also Don Bluth, another pretty notable animated film auteur a bit later than Bakshi. He has tons of amazing works to his name.


Ralph Bakshi and Don Bluth aren't really the first directors I would think when talking about good animated movies although they both have a very recognizable style. The best "western" animation since the 60's to the early 90's was mostly made in soviet Russia. The animation artists in the USSR had a relative freedom because there wasn't as big concerns for the profit as in the USA and animation was short or feature films, not extremely low budget television series.


well when I was talking "western" i was trying to mention American animators. But I do agree about the Russian statement, after all they produced Skazka skazok.

however, the 70-80s was a big time for Rankin/Bass, who had their works animated by Topcraft. There's a big "well, is it anime?" topic for you. Topcraft was a Japanese animation studio (or, a subset of Pacific Animation or something..), set in Japan, who would animate practically everything from Rankin/Bass. They later went on to become the core animators at Studio Ghibli. (thats right, if you watched The Last Unicorn as a kid, it's animated by like the same dudes who did Nausicaa)

The Last Unicorn, the Hobbit, Silver Hawks, Thunder Cats. amazing shows animated in the late 70-80s. And they're one of the biggest examples of "well, what does 'made in japan' really mean?' when talking about anime.

CareyGrant wrote:

It's not just female characters, we see the same thing with Sanji from One Piece towards Nami, Vivi, or any attractive woman in the show really.

What's more, it's the ol' double standard. A man displaying the same characteristics wouldn't be denigrated as a "bitch," or any other pejorative associated with strong/commanding women; granted, the Tsundere blows the normal range of human emotions to the absolute extremes of silliness for the sake of comedy (among other reasons).


reverse sexism is silly <.<

CareyGrant wrote:
Discounting the Tsundere archetype as a comedy gag


tsundere isn't a comedy gag O_o
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Dolza



Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 92
Location: Chicagoland
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Good show!
Venture Bros. is the best thing on TV right now. The other "Western" animated show I really loved was Daria.
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varmintx



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Covington, KY
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:12 pm Reply with quote
Those of you saying blu-ray is still too expensive obviously haven't been paying attention to the prices during this Christmas shopping season. Amazon and Walmart went into a full-blown price war where you could get Terminator Salvation preorder for $15.32; basically, the same price as the DVD. Samurai Champloo just came out and Amazon has the blu-ray for $1 more than the DVD.

And I'm afraid I'm going to have to fall into the camp that thinks lossless audio should be mandatory now. I was willing to get a bunch of Warner titles early in the format's life with lossy-only audio, but as I've become accustomed to the lower base, higher ends and general "airiness" (I don't really know how to explain that last one) a lossy track just doesn't cut it anymore. And I can't think that it's merely a placebo effect since I've had this scenario happen:

Disney's audio always default to the lossless track, so when I put in Gone Baby Gone, I naturally assumed it would as well. Now, keep in mind that this isn't exactly an audio-porn title; the opening is merely Casey Affleck making a voice-over. But, despite this, I could still tell that it sounded like a standard dolby digital 5.1 track, and (in case you haven't figured it out yet) I checked and it did indeed default to the lossy. Switching, the boost in fidelity became immediately apparent.

That's just one anecdotal story, but it convinced me more than even when I did an A/B comparison with the big battle at the end of Kill Bill Vol. 1 that there was in fact a big difference to be gained from lossless audio.
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jgreen



Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 1325
Location: St. Louis, MO
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:29 pm Reply with quote
Great podcast as always, guys! And hey, do I sense a little Seasonal Affective Disorder? There was an awful lot of talk of things making you "want to put a gun in your mouth." Confused

And related to Aeon Flux, another fantastic American TV animated drama (with nary an anime influence to be found!) was another MTV show, The Maxx. Out now on DVD! (FINALLY)

neocloud9 wrote:
Er, can't speak for men, but I have noticed that there's really not much to speak of in the way of hentai manga. I think RightStuf had a sale a month or so ago, but other than that... Yeah, very much below the radar. I'll be curious to hear the male perspective on that.


Oh, there's plenty of hentai manga out there. Two of the bigger publishers are Icarus Publishing and Eros Comix. I'd link to them but they're (naturally ) waaaay NSFW, but hey, you've got Google, right? Smile

Shinmaru wrote:
Zac are both movie buffs, right? Have either (or both) of you seen The Thin Man, with William Powell and Myrna Loy? That's the kind of relationship Lawrence and Holo have, except it's a bit more focused on romance, and the verbal sparring is a few steps below.


Whoa! Points for the Thin Man reference! I haven't seen S&W so I don't know how fitting it is, but thanks for the reminder, because I love those movies.
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varmintx



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Covington, KY
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:57 pm Reply with quote
jgreen wrote:

And related to Aeon Flux, another fantastic American TV animated drama (with nary an anime influence to be found!) was another MTV show, The Maxx. Out now on DVD! (FINALLY)
Do you have that yet? I'm interested, but I would like to know a lot more about the quality first. I still have my old VHS copies off the TV, but I have the small problem of no longer owning a VCR. Smile
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einhorn303



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:22 pm Reply with quote
jgreen wrote:


neocloud9 wrote:
Er, can't speak for men, but I have noticed that there's really not much to speak of in the way of hentai manga. I think RightStuf had a sale a month or so ago, but other than that... Yeah, very much below the radar. I'll be curious to hear the male perspective on that.


Oh, there's plenty of hentai manga out there. Two of the bigger publishers are Icarus Publishing and Eros Comix. I'd link to them but they're (naturally ) waaaay NSFW, but hey, you've got Google, right? Smile


MangaGamer might also be entering into the field of English-translated ero manga. They added a "Comics" section to their site, but haven't announced any licenses yet.

Icarus is a truly great company. And, Simon's industry blog is very informative and would be good to read for anyone, even if you don't like ero manga.

The bizarre thing is that, and I don't have numbers on hand, I really think there's more R18 yaoi published in English than (normal) ero manga.
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neocloud9



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 1178
Location: Atlanta, GA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:27 pm Reply with quote
Pandadice wrote:
CareyGrant wrote:
What's more, it's the ol' double standard. A man displaying the same characteristics wouldn't be denigrated as a "bitch," or any other pejorative associated with strong/commanding women; granted, the tsundere blows the normal range of human emotions to the absolute extremes of silliness for the sake of comedy (among other reasons).

reverse sexism is silly <.<


Uh... Pointing out a double standard is not reverse sexism. Confused
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jgreen



Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 1325
Location: St. Louis, MO
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:41 pm Reply with quote
varmintx wrote:
jgreen wrote:

The Maxx. Out now on DVD! (FINALLY)
Do you have that yet? I'm interested, but I would like to know a lot more about the quality first. I still have my old VHS copies off the TV, but I have the small problem of no longer owning a VCR. Smile


Nope, I haven't caved yet. This is one of those weird releases where they actually burn the series to-order on a DVD-R, and while I don't know anyone who bought The Maxx specifically, the quality is apparently fine. The big selling point for this DVD release for me is that it contains the entire series...the version MTV sold on VHS back in the day was recut into a single 100 minute movie, which cut out an entire episode of the show. So having that restored will be awesome.
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Vicserr



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico USA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:07 pm Reply with quote
jgreen wrote:
varmintx wrote:
jgreen wrote:

The Maxx. Out now on DVD! (FINALLY)
Do you have that yet? I'm interested, but I would like to know a lot more about the quality first. I still have my old VHS copies off the TV, but I have the small problem of no longer owning a VCR. Smile


Nope, I haven't caved yet. This is one of those weird releases where they actually burn the series to-order on a DVD-R, and while I don't know anyone who bought The Maxx specifically, the quality is apparently fine. The big selling point for this DVD release for me is that it contains the entire series...the version MTV sold on VHS back in the day was recut into a single 100 minute movie, which cut out an entire episode of the show. So having that restored will be awesome.


IA (Justin can speak more about that) did that with their releases of Cat's Eye, Nobody's Boy Remi and Super Dimension Century Orguss, and yes, I should order that Maxx DVD soon
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1684
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:09 pm Reply with quote
Vicserr wrote:
IA (Justin can speak more about that) did that with their releases of Cat's Eye, Nobody's Boy Remi and Super Dimension Century Orguss, and yes, I should order that Maxx DVD soon


Get it while you can. Once it's gone, there's no excess stock to sit on retailer shelves collecting dust for years.

BTW, that business model is a total failure. Learned that the hard way. E-mail/tweet Zac about it for a future podcast if you want to hear the whole story.
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Cheesecracker



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 240
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:09 am Reply with quote
To mix two things touched upon by previous posts: Zac hates on Spice and Wolf...and is Zac a troll. The quote from the show sounds much worse than it is, but I think it demonstrates a bit where both of these notions come from.

Zac:
Quote:
I'm am f******g baffled why that show has any popularity...at all. It's not bad. It's not a bad by any stretch, but it's a really f******g weird idea a for a show.


If I've parsed the statement correctly, I'm in agreement that it comes out of left field with a very unlikely quality and yet,against the odds, has found a niche.

Maybe it's just hyperbolic?

It's not usually part of my vocabulary, so I'm not sure if I'm using it correctly.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbolic


Gift or curse? To sound both inflammatory and and mundane at the same time?

Pee Wee Herman:
Quote:
I meant to do that


I'd like to add that with all the belly-aching people do regarding tired, worn out plots and characters that maybe this show, as weird as it may be/seem, also manages to carry a 'breath of fresh air' with it.


-----------

I don't get all the 'Alita couldn't have been done before'. You might not like the clip below but I think it's nearly 10years old(I think it was done in Shade 3D). Nitpicking aside I think it is pretty well done. When it was made, facial animation would likely have been it's weak point(and, to some extent, cloth and hair sim). However, the style is pretty strong, with regards to the original artist. Other CG developments since then (lighting/texturing effects, subsurface scattering etc) would just be icing.It might be hard to get the full effect as the upload is kind of low grade compared to what I've seen. I saw a torrent that might be the high grade version(search : Gunnm 3d).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x49ntp_gunnm-3d-modeling-animation-motorba_creation

I was kind of bugged by the bit about Alita being/needing to be 'real'. I thought: Like Astro boy needed to be 'real', like Godzilla needed to be 'real'? I'd hate to see Alita be a victim of the 'lost in translation/me fix, technology make better' effect. True, the art is detailed and precise but A big part of the charm is specifically in the original artist's style. Alita does not look like a a real girl and doesn't need to.


Sorry, sorry, sorry: Not trying to be mean but I had to laugh at the gaff below. Especially, after an articulate and thought -provoking statement....

Quote:
Oh and by the way, people who don't like Spongebob are just idiots who can't look past the surface. .....Apparently most people are two dumb to see past the surface level fish based appearance.


I swear, if you propped a box up with a stick and baited it with irony, you'd catch me every time.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:53 am Reply with quote
Cheesecracker wrote:
I don't get all the 'Alita couldn't have been done before'. You might not like the clip below but I think it's nearly 10years old(I think it was done in Shade 3D).


You're arguing that an animated Alita could be done. I believe Zac is saying that assuming Cameron wanted to make it live-action, not animated* then it couldn't be done. The clip you mentioned is clearly nowhere near photo-realistic. It would look horribly out of place alongside live characters.

*Being that he has solely expressed interest doing a live-action version rather than an animated one as far as I know, this would be a legitimate assumption in a discussion regarding this particular project.

Quote:
I swear, if you propped a box up with a stick and baited it with irony, you'd catch me every time.

So the part you cut out...
ikillchicken wrote:
Clearly it's actually an immensely complex character piece about the struggles of a socially inept boy with a rare genetic disorder requiring special orthopedic pants and his troubled relationship with his mentally handicapped neighbor/lover. In it's portrayal of it's two leading characters, Spongebob and Squidward, it juxtaposes the struggle of children with the pressure to conform with the struggle of adults to come to terms with their failure to realize their dreams to form a bitingly satirical allegory of the conventional suburban life.

...didn't tip you off that I was maybe being just a little bit tongue in cheek? No. That seemed like an 'articulate and thought-provoking statement'...about Spongebob. Of the Squarepants variety. I drink your irony, I drink it up!


Last edited by ikillchicken on Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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maaya



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:26 am Reply with quote
haha, kinda cute when they say "first moe ... second tsundere ... - wait ... are we sure? because you take a lot of shit when you get that wrong" ... Anime hyper

Well, I liked Spice & Wolf more than I expected. I thought Holo could get a bit annoying, but usually she is only teasing and also calculating. oh and you should watch the last episodes. I thought the ending was quite nice ^^ I suppose many people felt the same way about the show. You like watching it, but you don't really know why. Very Happy
I guess it's just a nice show to watch in the end.

And I'm not sure if it is so popular actually. For everyone who liked it a lot, I heard others saying they thought it was incredibly boring. It's really not for everybody.
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