Forum - View topicAnime in America: Theron and Carl's Best (and Most Notable) of 2009
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
|
|||||
|
OK, you guys, it's not like I don't sympathize with what some of you are saying, but dtm42 has decided to drop the issue so I think it would be a good idea for everyone else to wind this particular vein of argument down now before it becomes a big(ger) headache. Let's start off 2010 with some courtesy before we devolve back into the flaming bag of dog poo we're all so used to.
|
||||||
|
||||||
Alestal
 Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
|
|||||
|
Well, I see both sides of the spectrum dtm42 is correct when he says that Toradora wasn’t the next coming of christ, but wrong when he says the show is mediocre. As for it breaking molds, now that is just not true. The girl lead was basically copied and pasted from Zero no Tsukaima, from the small breasts to her angry spasms. The main boy lead was a sweet shy kid with angry eyes, that’s never been done before, ha. The side characters were definatly the highlight of the show considering how awful the two leads were, though I’ll admit, they had their moments of originality, but nothing out of the norm for a show of this length. The ending made me want to kill something, it felt so awkward and rushed.. their relationship shifted gears so dramatically and quickly.
Now when people say stuff like “original”, I think of titles like FLCL, NANA, Beck, etc.. This being said, I’d probably re-watch it, because it was enjoyable. |
||||||
|
||||||
Kougeru
 Posts: 5529 |
|
|||||
|
This whole article took me back in time...and that made it feel like It WASN'T about 2009. Ignoring all the legality crap, all of this stuff is "old" and not fresh anymore, which made the whole article boring until the unlicensed section. And the living fossil part made me laugh, just shows how little anime Carl watches....there's usually 2 of those kinds of anime that I see ..a YEAR. Haruka season 1 is a better though.
Not to start any arguments, this is obviously all just my opinion. It would be an overall good article If i read it in 2007 since that seems like where most of the "awards" are going to. Though if it WAS 2007 I'd be giving Sola all sorts of awards for Matsuri being awesome. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Albright
Posts: 14 |
|
|||||
If you don't think there's any value in that, then how do you validate the existence of this entire site? |
||||||
|
||||||
Kyogissun
 Posts: 676 |
|
|||||
|
Wow Theron, you really hit the nail on the head for scene of the year. I could not agree with you more. Between the chosen scene, the spoiler[revealing that the girl in the otherworld was in fact Ushio's first world (So to speak, it was the 'first' existence of her if you think about it) and not Nagisa as some suspected, but also that the junk doll was in fact Tomoya] and of course spoiler[The death scenes for Nagisa and Ushio] it would be hard to choose just which one was quite so significant...
But the scene that you chose is quite honestly one of the closest comparisons to how people handle emotional stuff in real life. I've realized how close it is to how my mother handled the death of my father, what with her reflecting on the times she had and enjoyed with him, as well as telling me about him and what kind of person he was. So thanks for finally giving that series the recognition it deserves. Key may be super dramatic with its works but a lot of people don't understand that it's depictions are very real and accurate of how emotional people behave in real life, so the fact that you do is really respect worthy and whatnot. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||||
Hey dude trolling a site administrator over and over again is a really good way to get banned as you have just learned! |
||||||
|
||||||
|
maaya
Posts: 976 |
|
|||||
Nope, Erin is a pure 2009 show - it was running in Japan from January 2009 till December 2009. It is literally the show of the year  Else Aoi Hana of course is all fresh as well and Skip Beat also finished in 2009, while Moribito is not going to get old that fast (it is the show of the decade  ).
On a side note, I really wonder what the translator of Erin on crunchyroll was smoking when he thought of these name spellings. Seriously what's with all those randomly added "h"s and hyphens? Why does a simple name as Soyon has to be turned into Soh-Yon!? oO |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||
Oh, good God. . . do people NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE TITLE AT ALL? This was Anime in America 2009, not Anime in Japan 2009. You can find oodles of other sites and features which probably deal with the latter. Quite frankly, if all you're concerned about is what came out in Japan in 2009, then why did you even bother to waste time reading the article? Wasn't the title on the front page clear enough?
Opinions are always going to be heavily split on Toradora, I guess. As much as some people don't understand why people laud it, I find it incomprehensible that people think the show is only mediocre or doesn't do anything different, and I've never understood the issues even some people who really like the series had with its ending. (The series thread for the show in the Anime forum had a big, long debate about that.) Yes, it uses seemingly stock characters as its leads, but it does things with those characters that other series do not and is one of the rare romantic comedy/drama series which actually uses quite a bit of subtlety - and if you don't think that it does, look at most of the conversations the Ryuuji and Minorin have, especially the ones about UFOs, as just one example. Look at the subtext in those scenes, at what's been very indirectly implied rather than outright said. RomComs are normally much, much blunter than that. I watch RomComs all the time; in fact, I've probably seen part or all of nearly all of the significant ones that have made it to the States over the past decade. (Except, oddly enough, for Love Hina.) I have analyzed many of them in reviews, both for this site and a personal site I regularly wrote reviews for before coming on staff here. I could probably write a professional journal article on the standard archetypes, scenes, conventions, gags, and cliches for series like this and where they all originated from (Urusei Yatsura deserves a lot of credit/blame), probably as well as anyone out there short of a John Oppliger. Based on that analytical experience - and not just fanboy enthusiasm - I can say with absolute confidence that I have seen a level of writing and story execution in Toradora! which beats out 99% of all of the other romantic comedies out there. Consider something as simple as the post-kicking scene in episode 2, which was the turning point for me on this series. You just don't see tsundere and nice guy leads break down and express their frustrations like that, not in anime, anyway. Consider a scene a few episodes later where spoiler[Ryuuji actually gets physically forceful with Taiga in trying to convince her to meet with her father.] This was a shocking scene because it flies in the face of convention about series like this, and the emotion it packed was surprisingly intense, too. I could go on for quite a while on this, but this isn't a thread just for discussing that one series, so I'll cut it off here. Some of you will just have to accept that at least some of the people who heavily praise Toradora are not being "blinded" to what the show really is; we understand it perfectly well.
I haven't responded to this yet because I've been offline for 24 hours and really shouldn't be spending time right now writing anime dissertations - at least not in forums, anyway. But I'll see if I can give you a concise version: spoiler[Lelouch's original goals may have been to seize control of everything, but at some point during the second season - maybe at the time of Shirley's death? - he decided that gaining ultimate power was just a means to an end. He wanted not only to beat his father but to create a situation that would force people to unite for a common goal, and he eventually decided that getting everyone united in hate for him as an all-powerful ruler was the best way to do it. That's what the Zero Initiative in the late episodes, that Suzaku so fiercely bought into, was all about: setting him up to be the ultimate bad guy, placing the blame for everything on himself, and then becoming a martyr for world peace under the guise of being a tyrant assassinated by a hero that everyone could rally behind, one that could help lead them into a truly more peaceful world not possible with Lelouch around. Nunally started to try to do the same thing in her own way, and saw the truth at the end. I also had the impression that Kallen also understood that at the end and that Tohdoh may have had an inkling. Most of this was not apparent until the very moment Lelouch got stabbed and we saw the flashback to his conversations with Suzaku, though. Everyone watching knew that Lelouch was up to something, and that he had good long-term intentions even if his methods were ugly, but seeing the true extent of what he was up to was a shock.] That's why that scene deserved that award; because it changed everything about the perception of what was really going on. Now, granted, CG is not a series that can ever be accused of plot consistency or logic, but that part, at least, did make sense. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
KLAC
Exempt from Grammar Rules
 Posts: 1122 |
|
|||||
|
well so many to mention in 09 anime in america
from r2 to romeo x juliet really 09 seem ok yea toradora so wanted to get license maybe in 2010 since it's the year of the taiga. oh romeo x juliet mentions really overall of best of 09. |
||||||
|
||||||
Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
|
|||||
I get that part, the problem is that it still doesn't make any sense. Basically it's quite clear that they had this idea to end the series on a plot twist without actually thinking about whether or not the plot twist made any sense. So to spoiler[repent Lelouch becomes a guy worse than Charles a man whose entire reign was basically spent killing people. ' Oh also his plan is entirely dependant on going into a massive fortress without anyone figuring out his whereabouts like he was Solid Snake, also he has the athletic abilities of a man whose morbidly obese. He also must pre-record a video of him talking so that it looks like he is actually somewhere else, meaning he basically has to know what Schneizel is thinking right down to the very last minute. Oh also as part of the final attack he also blows up Mt. Fuji which would presumably be an explosion on par with Krakatau, killing everyone around Mt. Fuji] You know instead of just spoiler[reforming Britannia, and making peace with everyone] That made sense to you? I can see how it might, but you would basically have to say that Charles, Lelouch, and Schneizel are simply insane. Even by the low standards set by the rest of Code Geass R2 that's still badly written. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||
This is where you're having problems, I think: because you're stuck on this idea that spoiler[Lelouch is trying to redeem himself. He clearly isn't. He never once considers the rightness or the wrongness of his actions from a moral standpoint, so that doesn't even factor into his equation. The only thing that he cares about - and he makes this point abundantly clear on several occasions - is making a world that's safe for Nunally, and to him any means justify that end.]
Why get hung up on improbable ploys like this? That's all stock and trade of the series. You either accept these schemes, however implausible they may be to execute, or you can never find series like this entertaining. (Same goes for most James Bond flicks and a lot of other action blockbusters that have come out over the past couple of decades.) Besides, that spoiler[ Lelouch can predict exactly what Schneizel will say] is not only a ploy he uses elsewhere in the series but also one (admittedly hamhanded) way of showing off Lelouch's intelligence. |
||||||
|
||||||
vision1
 Posts: 30 Location: Charlotte NC |
|
|||||
|
When these guys start off their article with statements like: "looking for the still-glowing embers of the good amongst the burnt-out hulks of the mediocre, painful and plain old bad."
It sounds like a hint of the frustration with the generally poor state of the industry these days, and would lead me to believe they found little that was notable in 2009. Followed immediately by a list of shows that eventually covers nearly everything from the entire year. I'm lost, guys. Exactly WHAT constitutes your version of "mediocre" or "bad" ? When I read statements like "Spice and Wolf for being bracingly different" ... I laugh MIGHTILY. So, twenty-something dopey guy gawking at cherubish female who likes being naked is bracingly different. Aha. Never seen that before, nope. And of all the fan-kids ripping some guy to shreds because he doesn't see much to love with this travesty "Toradora". Cry, babies, cry. Who cares if he doesnt like it????? Sure, there are a couple of shows from last year I might be tempted to check out, thanks to consistent mention all over the site: such as Monster and Moribito. But of the Nana's, Toradoras, Spices and wolves... I know, I'm just "too stupie and ignerrant to unnerstan it's geen-yis" Yes, yes. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Last edited by vision1 on Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
|
|||||
It's a bad idea to extend this discussion much further, I've said so before, but I'll briefly point out a couple of things. spoiler[Pretty much everything from the finale of the first season to the next-to-last arc of R2 is an attempt to push Lelouch past his own limits and, in short, break him. That's what ends up removing his inhibitions and putting him in the necessary emotional and mental state to make certain decisions.] Objectively speaking they might not be the best, but then again neither human beings nor any fictional characters who go through all that crap are supposed to be perfectly rational and immune to so much emotional baggage. Lelouch isn't going to be an exception. Call me the world's biggest idiot, or just crazy, but I think that makes more than enough sense from a literary and dramatic perspective, even if plausibility and realism aren't really part of the equation. As much as significant portions of Code Geass R2 were poorly executed, I think what would be senseless is wanting Lelouch to just wake up one day, pretend nothing had happened and push the "right" buttons out of nowhere as if he was just another member of the audience, in order to meet Charred Knight's expectations regardless of the story's preexisting direction. In short, the story could have done a far better job of presenting itself but what you wanted is a different one. Last edited by nightjuan on Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
|
|||||
|
I must say that after having finished reading this whole article on my mobile phone last night, I did feel kind of drowsy. But it was an excellent and interesting read, although I suppose I'm allowed to assume that those were your favorite picks by your own taste, not that you actually impose their goodness over all else. Having that in mind, I could understand, but not all of your choices, and unfortunately came to an agreement with no more than a handful. I too think that Johan is one of the best characters of all times, not just this year, while I totally can't agree with Holo! But I also thought that the ending of Code Geass R2 was outstanding, and emotionally touching.
I don't know if it was mentioned before, but I thought this part was pretty funny:
And having finished Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu just recently, I can understand why you'd call it a living fossil. Really glad to see Kara no Kyoukai on the list. An unlicensed hidden gem, indeed. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Crystal
Posts: 283 |
|
|||||
|
Nice to see Monster gets some mention. Shame it's not more popular.
Then again, I wouldn't want it to have thousands of squealing fangirls the way Death Note does. What exactly does this "music replacing issue" cover? Just the English version, or the Japanese one as well? What else besides "Be My Baby"? Any of the BGM as well? |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group