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Fronzel wrote:

What about when they're making a mess of the word, like the bizarre pronounciation of "eureka" in Eureka 7 which was even imposed on the dub? I certainly refuse to use it.

I guess it's personal. The U.S. pronunciation would so not fit for me (as in an exclamation one utters when having found gold Wink

). As said in the anime, it's an aesthetically pleasing girl's name, while the meaning symbolically fits the story: basically, "I have found (it)". It just sounds wonky to pronounce it the English way because of cultural connotations for me I guess.

doctordoom85 wrote:

Granted, I prefer the English, since "When They Cry" is actually relevant to the show.

Higurashi isn't correct by itself, but it's better than When They Cry. Are we English-speakers so in need of dumbing down that we can't simply have Cicadas in the title? "They", being non-specific, in this instance is misleading since the audience will presume that "they", and thus "cry", refers to characters and their actions, which is wrong, unless they make the connection in the OP. The story takes place repeatedly in the summer, which is always represented in anime by the sound of cicadas, and in this case they are "crying", which leads to:

This part... I know I read it somewhere, but just couldn't find the source again to link: It happens that the use of "cry" here is a highly unusual case of the homonyms meaning "making sound" and "shedding tears" matching in Japanese and English. Cicadas making noise indicates summer, and the homonymic meaning introduces sadness, thus the layered meaning in Japanese. "When Cicadas Cry" would also communicate both meanings in English once the person understood the reference to summer, which would be obvious to seasoned anime fans and easily discovered by or explained to others (this isn't a gateway anime in any case). "Higurashi" won't mean anything to an non-Japanese speaker, so is pointless to include in the English title.

In the end, it is equivalent to translating Zero no Tsukaima as "Zero's Person".

Of course, the other reason most fans don't use the English is because only half the show has been released here. R1 DVD buyers only get to see it to the middle (e.g., as if only Code Geass were released, and not CG R2). People who have seen the complete series, including Kai, can only have done so via fansubs, so Higurashi is still it's title.

As to popularity of shows in U.S. vs. Japan, Bebop being more popular in the U.S. isn't a stretch. It's full of American entertainment references, with entire episodes parodying U.S. films, not to mention the music episode titles. While those movies would have likely been seen by the Japanese as well, the show wouldn't have have struck the same chords. FLCL has some of that as well (e.g., the guitars, South Park), but it's just an awesomely creative show technically for its animation, with themes, visual references and characters that communicate universally. Mamimi for one is a brilliant characterization of a human archetype rarely portrayed in anime, or even live action.

Jih2 wrote:

RDespair wrote:

Jih2 wrote:

In North America it's not far from "main stream" considering how many people watched it on Adult Swim back in "the day."

That's my point. Setting aside quality, if its biggest claim to fame was that it was popular on Adult Swim for a while, it's not mainstream. Adult Swim is about as niche as they come.

Yes, it did not explode into popularity and I'm not typing this on a FLCL special edition Mac laptop but it did get consumed by a ton of people who weren't just anime fans. People who are now about 17-21 will probably still know what this is.

Adult Swim as niche as they come? I point to Family Guy.

Futurama was also revived due to Adult Swim. Calling the network as niche as they come when they started made sense but now it's a pretty ridiculous saying. That said, AS has aired at least four main stream anime. Cowboy Bebop, InuYasha, Evangelion and Full Metal Alchemist are pretty big hits. Arguably Ghost in the Shell and FLCL could be added to that list.

BTW, Stars wasn't ignored. Toei refused to let any company dub it. Pioneer wanted to produce an uncut dub and Toei would not sell it as they wanted the show to be seen as a kids show in the US. After that Toei got really tight with the license and refused to let anyone else touch Sailor Moon. It's a shame really as Pioneer wanted to produce an uncut dub for it. I seem to remember that they wanted to do the same with Classic and R but were not allowed to get the rights to those series.

Well at least this is what I remember. It's been a long time since I've actually looked all these things up but I do remember them pretty clearly. If anyone can dispute it or offer up evidence otherwise then thanks for correcting me.

First and foremost, thank you so much Answerman, for posting my efforts to communicate my thoughts on anime to my fellow fans; nice way to start the New Year, indeed.

NOW...moomintroll, although I do agree with you 100% regarding Mind Game - I mean you would just naturally assume that a movie that was able to win Japan's most prestigious honor for an animated piece, the Noburo Ofuji Award, would get at least a little attention, you know? (But you've seen it - do you really think it would be done justice, with the current state of the dub industry? I hardly think so, which would be even worse than it not getting dubbed at all) Although you and I share this one opinion in common....well, I will say that do absolutely adore people like you, I mean, you're so completely focused on that which matters least:

moomintroll wrote:

Monica wrote:

Since I actually have no idea what on Earth a "shrift" is, I think I'll re-interpret your lovely reader's question to mean either "short shift" or "short end of the stick", and go from there (*wink*).

shrift 1) confession to a priest. 2) absolution, esp. of one about or appointed to die.

short shrift Old English scrift, from scrifan, to shrive

I have no idea how "short shift" would make sense unless used in the context of going home from work early...

Monica wrote:

Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 - the second of only three times in history that American has been attacked on its own turf (the American Revolution, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11).

Er...no.

Sorry. I'm a slightly drunk pedant with a history degree. I'll go away now.

Sweetie, I apologize to you for inconveniencing you in such an ungodly manner and to my family for disgracing their honor by submitting such a heartfelt piece of writing that, I think, everyone on the face of the planet probably understood on a deeper level than these useless bits of trivia you've chosen to pick me apart on.

I don't know how old you are, but I am 36yo, and so I can tell you from being around the block a few times (some of those times I've been dragged around it) that you should learn to relax. Something you need to understand about forums & the like is that they ARE NOT academic symposiums. Read & understand peoples' posts for the meaning that underlies their efforts and the overall message of what they are trying to convey - your world will be a brighter place for it. Being a troll isn't as romantic as it might sound. Now, if you have anything constructive, be it negative or positive, to say regarding what I wrote, I'd be more than happy to engage in an intellectual discussion with someone who is as clearly educated & intelligent as you are - but if all you intend to do is respond with the intent for ill communication, you'll get no further response from me, although I do wish you the best in your pursuit of...whatever it is you are seeking.

Fronzel wrote:

The Japanese actor pulls of the English pronunciation and someone insists on doing it differently? I don't really understand what you're talking about. Could you provide an example?

Wedding Peach- ADV went with "Sandra", but every time I played it back in Japanese, Koyasu was saying the name as "Sandor"
Granted, it was cute in Gundam Seed that Souichiro Hoshi managed "Athrun", but Akira Ishida said "Ashrun"
And I swear Kappei Ymaguchi & Tomokazu Seki were much better with English than Ryoutaro Okiayu who was playing the American K (Let's not forget K's name is Claude. Yeah, right)
I have listened so many times to Kururu's appearance in Sgt Frog & I swear it sounds like Kururu & not Kululu as ADV is calling him
And let us not forget the whole Zoro/Zolo One Piece thing. (I'm thinking of Viz changing his name to agree with 4Kids)

Quote:

I find those who insist on calling films by their non-English title annoying at times (I'm tired of fangirls screaming about Kuroshitsuji..."Oh, you mean Black Butler?"), but don't treat the question-poser as one of those people. This was a logical and well-founded question.

I'm semi-guilty.
It depends on which title I learn the thing by. It was Kuroshitsuji when I started buying the manga from Japan so that's what I learned it as & call it. Same for Sohryuden. I bought the box as Sohryuden: whatever CPM included after the hyphen-probably something about dragon kings, but I learned it as Sohryuden.
But I certainly don't care what others call it as long as we all realize which title we're talking about.

CCSYueh wrote:

Excel is satire.
FLCL is surreal.

FLCL isn't satire? Of mecha? Of harem? Of the old stand-by of an alien/mystical female that drops right into the life of the bored main male character? Not a send-up of any of those?

I'd also argue that FLCL is absurd, not surreal. It's layered -- rewarding re-watches with subtext beyond its surprisingly unique message, as well as nuances of characters -- but not complex, nor uses atmospheric disorientation. It shows a lot of the idiosyncrisies of anime for what they are, so the series can be a disorienting experience when there's no real conceit of a seriousness or vital plot (do plots in anime even really make sense or matter most of the time?). Excel Saga saga isn't like that; it's a purely episodic parody that's emblematic of loud, Japanese comedy. They're both comedies, sure, but their goals and aesthetic are very far apart -- it's like comparing Dr. Strangelove to Buster Keaton's films (and I love both).

mo-chan wrote:

Read & understand peoples' posts for the meaning that underlies their efforts and the overall message of what they are trying to convey - your world will be a brighter place for it. Being a troll isn't as romantic as it might sound.

I really don't see how you'd read Moomintroll's minor corrections as a kind of affront to you -- and given your last two paragraphs, I think that's a fair interpretation of your post.

CCSYueh wrote:

Fronzel wrote:

The Japanese actor pulls of the English pronunciation and someone insists on doing it differently? I don't really understand what you're talking about. Could you provide an example?

Wedding Peach- ADV went with "Sandra", but every time I played it back in Japanese, Koyasu was saying the name as "Sandor"
Granted, it was cute in Gundam Seed that Souichiro Hoshi managed "Athrun", but Akira Ishida said "Ashrun"
And I swear Kappei Ymaguchi & Tomokazu Seki were much better with English than Ryoutaro Okiayu who was playing the American K (Let's not forget K's name is Claude. Yeah, right)
I have listened so many times to Kururu's appearance in Sgt Frog & I swear it sounds like Kururu & not Kululu as ADV is calling him
And let us not forget the whole Zoro/Zolo One Piece thing. (I'm thinking of Viz changing his name to agree with 4Kids)

I always thought something similar of the pronunciation of one of the characters in FMA. Many of the characters would pronounce the name as Lyra (Lie-ra) which I thought would be localized as the name Lyla, but instead it was localized as Lira (Leer-ra), which I thought was kind of odd. Oh well can't be helped I guess.

I guess I'm a minority but I like to say the Japanese names of shows more than the English names. It isn't really because I'm some sort of supremest or something, but saying the Japanese name to me is just more fun. It's like a tongue twister, there's just something pleasing about successfully having Gokinjo Monogatari roll off your tongue instead of simply saying "Neighborhood Story" plus it's an added plus confusing my boyfriend with all the Japanese titles Razz

kakoishii wrote:

I guess I'm a minority but I like to say the Japanese names of shows more than the English names. It isn't really because I'm some sort of supremest or something, but saying the Japanese name to me is just more fun. It's like a tongue twister, there's just something pleasing about successfully having Gokinjo Monogatari roll off your tongue instead of simply saying "Neighborhood Story" plus it's an added plus confusing my boyfriend with all the Japanese titles Razz

Meh, I'm completely indifferent to the whole thing, but I do like the approach you have of trying to say it in Japanese as kind of a game(tongue twisters). I bet trying to say a whole list of titles in Japanese would be a really good exercise in combating what my old voice coach called "Lazy Mouth".

Jih2 wrote:

Agreed with most of the Answerfans' responses. We probably don't have much seinen because anime has yet to develop much of an academic crowd see anime conventions for more information :p

That's because anime fans nowadays are more casual than diehards. The casual fans typically read manga that are easily accessable and have zero literary merit. You will never see Children of the Sea (which actually be considered to have as much literary merit as any Stephen King book) be on par with Naruto. Naruto simply is easier to get into for a casual fan.

The only way we can get a wider audience for seinen or josei manga is if we get those hipster or bookworm kids.

mo-chan wrote:

I do agree with you 100% regarding Mind Game - I mean you would just naturally assume that a movie that was able to win Japan's most prestigious honor for an animated piece, the Noburo Ofuji Award, would get at least a little attention, you know? (But you've seen it - do you really think it would be done justice, with the current state of the dub industry? I hardly think so, which would be even worse than it not getting dubbed at all)

If it were released in the UK it would probably be by Optimum Releasing and I can't see them giving it a dub (they sub-licensed the Disney dub for some of their Ghibli releases but they're primarily an arthouse film distributor rather than an anime company and it's not their usual practice to dub world cinema releases). Frankly, I don't watch dubs so I'm not really bothered one way or the other - I'd just like to see it made more accessible for those of us who don't download.

Quote:

Sweetie,

Yes, darling?

Quote:

these useless bits of trivia you've chosen to pick me apart on.

A minor bit of late night nitpicking as an afterthought to a more considered (and uncharacteristically upbeat) reply to somebody else's submission is hardly picking you apart. You're about the same age as me, which means you've had plenty of time to develop a sense of proportion.

In any case, I think you'll find that the last line of my post indicated that while I was aware I was being a tad anally retentive, as HellKorn said, no affront was intended.

Quote:

I do wish you the best in your pursuit of...whatever it is you are seeking.

Right now I'm looking for a clean glass and an empty ashtray. I appreciate your support in this vital endeavour.

---

HellKorn wrote:

Excel Saga saga isn't like that; it's a purely episodic parody that's emblematic of loud, Japanese comedy.

I found Excel Saga really, really grating and only very occasionally funny. How's the manga? Sufficiently different to be worth trying or just more of the same?

If you did not like the Excel saga anime it will be impossible to like the manga. The manga is unfunny and lacks a lot of the comedic timing that the anime had.

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I'll be honest, I never got the message of FLCL. I was either oblivious to it or didn't pay attention to the show when I was watching it at midnight.

Quote:

...the folks at Ocean Studios really knocked it out of the park with this one. Every time I hear Patricia Drake's subtle and scary "you-should-be-making-big-plans-for-moose-and-squirrel" Balalaika or Dean Redman's portrayal of the smartest Black man to ever grace an anime series ever, Dutch, I am reminded of just how possible it is for an American studio to turn out a truly great anime. I can only pray that Funimation has ears as well-tuned as the rest of us, and doesn't totally screw up the dub of the imminent 3rd season of Black Lagoon. My hopes aren't especially high though, as they are the reigning superpower, so they apparently feel they can do no wrong. Ironically, it is this same voice-actors alliance that turned out the above-mentioned "Jubei-chan: The Secret of the Lovely Eye-Patch", however - I try not to think about it too hard...

Not to derail the train, but has Funimation announced yet -even unofficially- who they're gonna cast the OVA/3rd Season of Black Lagoon?

I for one like the Ocean Dub of the prior seasons, and heartily concur with this writer's feelings regarding the stellar performances of Patricia Drake as Balalaika (gives me goose bumbs/chills) and Dean Redman's, Dutch (spot on and one smart/sharp, Bad Mo' Fo'!). If Funi does decide to recast their parts (at the very least) I shall be rather put out. In my mind, they are those characters to me. It'd be like trying to watch the Simpsons or Futurama with entirely new VA's.

And I don't think I could, frankly -watch it with a different Dub cast. Certainly there are some I could stand to have recast, but others (the afore mentioned two) are too sacrosanct in my mind.

Granted, sometimes a re-Dub is a saving grace from the heavens (See: Funimation's One Piece... damn, I love that show now. I'm so addicted), especially when the first go round was a steaming turd. But Black Lagoon's Dub was/is already high quality, featuring some refreshingly new and talented VA's.

I like Funimation, but they often play favorites in casting shows (casting known quantities/talents to keeping costs down by reducing studio time, etc.), to their detriment at times.

Time will tell.

I did (and still do) love FLCL-as for the whole dub vs. sub debate-I actively seel out and watch dubbed anime-I can and do watch subbed stuff (as in fansubs) and have been known to buy and watch subbed only R1 releases-but that's the exception rather than the rule for me.

KanjiiZ wrote:

I'll be honest, I never got the message of FLCL. I was either oblivious to it or didn't pay attention to the show when I was watching it at midnight.

I didn't get it until someone spelled it out for me, but then it made a LOT more sense. I never liked FLCL, but now if I watch it again I might appreciate it more. The message seems to be spoiler[grow up, but don't grow up too fast.]

DavidShallcross wrote:

On another subthread, I try to accept any of the various names given anime series, English or Japanese, as synonyms, but use the English (since I don't speak Japanese) except in cases like Urusei Yatsura, where the pun doesn't translate well, or if the English name has been associated with a particularly extreme case of localization.

I accept both titles, but go out of my way to use the English titles. Mainly to troll the kind of people who think that titles like "Strawberry Marshmallow" are unacceptably translated.

Quote:

Even gems like AIR and Kanon only got a look-in because they stemmed from questionable dating sim games and border somewhat on the harem genre, so ADV rubbed their hands together and hoped to draw in the horny fanboys. Never mind the magic and mystery, as long as there's panty shots and cute catchphrases and plenty of moe, eh?

What exactly is so "questionable" about the original AIR and Kanon games? The fact that they involve sex in some way?

And what pantyshot-filled alternate-universe version of Air and Kanon was this guy watching?

Tim!!! wrote:

However, in recent years Mushi-Shi and Phoenix are about the only such anime off the top of my head that made it here, greatly outnumbered by those left behind - Kaiba, Shigofumi, Kemonozume, Zettai Shonen, perhaps Bokurano or Dennou Coil, etc. (okay, Shigofumi was licensed, but quickly nixed/forgotten)

I liked Zettai Shounen and wouldn't mind seeing it licensed, but I have to admit it's way too boring for most audiences. I swear there's two or three episodes in the second arc that consist entirely of cellphone conversations and texts.

annachu wrote:

But it could not hurt to bring some over and simply release them as subbed sets only. This obviously saves the studios money and saves some of us sub-only people some sanity. (Could you even IMAGINE Mermaid Melody dubbed? I would rather pour boiling oil straight into my ears...) Will it ever happen? Probably not...

I wonder why the "sub-only people" don't realize that "existence of a dub" does NOT equate to "I am forced to watch this dub."

moomintroll wrote:

Er...no.
*List of war facts*
Sorry. I'm a slightly drunk pedant with a history degree. I'll go away now.

mo-chan wrote:

I think, everyone on the face of the planet probably understood on a deeper level than these useless bits of trivia you've chosen to pick me apart on.

I'm thinking that moomintroll wasn't singling out you specifically, more like he was trying to counter common historical misconceptions when he saw them. After all, a lot of people forget about the War of 1812.

Quote:

I wonder why the "sub-only people" don't realize that "existence of a dub" does NOT equate to "I am forced to watch this dub."

They are not forced to watch it, they are forced to pay for it. And wait more for their favorite shows to get released because of it.

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