Forum - View topicDo you think the Anime golden era was between 88-98?
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Labbes
 Posts: 890 |
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I don't really think there was a "Golden Era" of anime. For that matter, I don't think there's one in music, film, visual arts or literature either, although I personally have some time periods where I can really connect with the works of the artists.
That said, I want to draw a comparison to the video game industry, which is in a similar problem as the anime industry. Last year's biggest hit was Modern Warfare 2, part 6 (I believe) of the long-running Call of Duty franchise. While "sequel" does not necessarily equate "excluding innovation", it is generally agreed that especially Call of Duty has had a similar model for a long time, and they don't want to change a running system (and that's not necessarily a bad thing for most users). So, we can all have a look at MW2 and say that everything was better in the early nineties. However, I would disagree with that. MW2 is the most mainstream title around, but we do get innovation in form of indie games, such as Solium Infernum or AI War, which would roughly equate to Mononoke and Aoi Bungaku, in the amount of interest they generate. If you want to say that the "era" of Civ, Ultima and Might and Magic was the "Golden Era" of video games, you are forgetting today's Portal, Warcraft 3, Half Life 2 and World of Warcraft (pulling examples out of thin air), that all shaped the video gaming world. Similarly, if you want to argue that the era between Akira and Eva was the "Golden Era", you are forgetting Death Note, Code Geass, FLCL and many other things people listed. PS: Both video games and anime have the problem of "ageing", which makes the comparison even neater. I'm so proud of myself. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Well, I define notable as something worth noting and I wouldn't really consider an anime worth noting unless it's pretty good. As I said in the post you were responding to though, if it's the concept of what is notable versus what is good that's hanging people up then by all means lets use a different term such as 'good' or 'worth seeing'. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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^
It's interesting to point out that all three of the previously mentioned anime series are known for having an inferior second half or sequel, obviously for different reasons and each with their respective set of consequences, but I would argue that they still qualify as "pretty good" in my humble opinion without having to resort to exclusively external considerations regarding fanbase reaction or what have you. Then again, this doesn't really change my own analysis, which doesn't automatically consider the 2000s to be more notable than what came before. I wouldn't claim that quality was consistently higher either. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Hm, weird choice there, I'd definitely pick Toradora! over Time of Eve despite having liked the latter better. Because... Time of Eve was far from complete, while Toradora! did a fairly good job and completed the story. Though had they completed Time of Eve, I'd definitely take it over Toradora! at any time. That is, considering romance series, of course. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I think this statement only supports what dtm42 said. He is saying that in many people's opinion these series are worth noting seeing as they have been such big hits in multiple countries and actually changed up the norm of anime titles. Just because you may not particularly like them doesn't mean it's not worth noting. For example, I really don't like Inuyasha but at the same time I can't be ignorant to the fact that this series did make a huge impact on the anime industry and will one day most likely be considered an important event in anime history. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Yeah, I hate Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann with a passion. But, even I would (grudgingly) put it on a list of the most notable Mecha titles of the past decade, simply because of how popular and talked-about it was.
Notability is often associated with quality (real or perceived), but it doesn't have to be. |
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Mushi-Man
Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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Well I wasn't necessarily saying that it was popularity which made these titles notable but more of the fact that the majority of the people found it to be a quality show, even though there is a minority that would disagree. As much as we might want to rant about how much we don't some really popular series, it's still most likely to go down in history is a notable anime whether we like it or not. One person can not judge what is notable for the whole fanbase, that's up to the majority to decide and the minority to be pissed about. |
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cyberia_knight
 Posts: 14 |
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I have been watching Anime for quite a while already and the 2000's just did not do it for me. I do try to be open minded but is a really a pain to browse the Anime section for hours and not finding anything interesting, and always end up buying an old school series. But I think the real problem I have is some of the fan base now is annoying I can compare it to how Vampire movie fans feel about Twilight. (Buying the Death Note Notebook and dressing up like L, holding the cellphone like L) They always have the same list Bleach, Death Note, Naruto, Paranoia Agent,XXXholic blah blah blah. Don't just stick to the top ten magazines give you, go out there and explore.
Series and movies such as Akira, Ghost in The Shell, Rurouni Kenshin, Ninja Scroll, Trigun, Grave of the Fireflies, Spirited Away, Inuyasha and many more emerge during 88 and 98. But besides those I do have my own favorites like Here is Greenwood, Battle Angel, Vampire Princess Miyu, Initial D. So 2000 through 2010 anime supporters quit your wining, you are going to feel the same way in 10 years. So let us old school people wine all we want, LOL, you'll get your turn to be the old school people too. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Okay. What is it going to take to get you guys to let go of this little 'notable' hangup? Do I need to go back and edit all my posts to replace the word notable with 'good'? I'm getting a bit exasperated because I've explicitly said, if you're hung up over the word notable I'm happy to use a different one like 'good'. In which case, unless I think a title is good I personally wouldn't say it's relevant in this discussion. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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What's the point in playing that "this era has more crap" game when most of the crap from eras past weren't even licensed or fansubbed? You realize how ridiculous it is to play that game than?
Apart from trying to strengthen your own argument why would you unevenly split last decade? 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 First half of last decade, second half. But hey why not!
No. In my opinion, none of those are that notable or at least, not that good. If you'd prefer, we could use the term 'good' or 'worth seeing' instead.[/quote] And the unfinished Trigun with a crappy main villian (and Legato being awesome does not make up for Knives), crappy finish and average at so many things is a masterpiece, got ya. And of course when I said notable I meant as in notable. Surely my 50 cent example showed that. |
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Labbes
Posts: 890 |
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Citizen Kane is a notable film, but not necessarily good, because that quality lies in the eye of the beholder. Titanic and Avatar are two movies I am not particularly fond of, yet they are notable, because many people have seen and liked them. Also, they show the sheer scale of what movies can do. Citizen Kane, on the other hand, inspired a lot of people and put techniques to good use, or even invented them. I guess more people have seen James Cameron's films than Citizen Kane, yet it definitely is a very notable film. Death Note and Code Geass are a little similar, in that they have a plotting protagonist who is sometimes/always the villain as well, and they have an over-the-top style. Their influence on teenage kids is notable, although how much it will influence the anime industry remains to be seen. Haruhi was a breakthrough hit in Japan and has a massive, and enormously geeky following. I need not really say more than "Hare Hare Yukai", do I? Also, Haruhi has already influenced (I dare say) the anime industry because K-On makes the merchandising techniques of Haruhi even more extreme. Notable does not mean good, but it usually means popular and/or inventive. Twilight and Harry Potter are on a totally different quality scale, yet they are both notable, because they revived whole genres/themes and spawned hundreds of rip-offs. If you don't like Twilight or Harry Potter, that does not make them less notable. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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So basically, in response to my post explaining why I don't care about the crappy titles and am not seeking to compare them you respond explaining why it is ridiculous to compare the crappy titles. There is neither a face nor a palm big enough for this moment.
Because unlike you I am not seeking to turn this into some silly little cross decade pissing match. I've repeatedly said that there is no meaning in comparing eras based on arbitrary and baseless distinctions such as decades or in your case, half decades. You seem to have forgotten, we are not in a topic entitled 'what was the best decade for anime?' Rather, we are in a topic asking 'what was the golden age of anime?' Simply put, during what time period was anime at it's best? That doesn't denote any specific or equal time frame. Hence, I will choose a period of any number of years that I feel was on average the best years for anime. I personally would say it was 95-05. There were a few off years but the bulk produced many great works. I'm honestly still not clear what exactly your big problem with that is.
Yes and I could toss out all the reasons I hate Death Note but look...Obviously people disagree on which anime they consider good and bad. Clearly though we're not going to sit here and make arguments for and against every anime of the last fifteen years. If your opinion on which anime are good differs from mine and therefore you come to a different conclusion about which years produced more great anime then by all means hold to your own opinion. That being the case though, don't try to cling to some sort of high ground and act as if your opinion on the matter is somehow superior or criticize my opinion for somehow being biased or inaccurate.
You can say whatever the hell you want. That doesn't mean it's also what I am saying. I was the one to originally use the term notable. So by all means, interpret it differently. But now that I have clarified what I meant (as I did immediately following your 50 cent example) don't seek to attack my statements by holding them to your interpretation of the word.
Dear god. It's as if I've slipped into the Twilight Zone. I keep saying 'whatever, forget the term notable then' and people keep responding 'but those titles are notable. Let me be as clear as humanly possible. Forget 'notable'. I hate 'notable'. May 'notable' be ever stricken from the English language. I DO NOT GIVE A fudge if an anime is notable. I care that it is good. I am basing my opinion on which years I think produced the most good anime. I don't know how I can make this any clearer. Please people, for the love of god stop arguing over the semantic meaning of notable. Last edited by ikillchicken on Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mushi-Man
Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I think Labbes basically summarized my thoughts on this "notable" argument. We can't define something as notable so black and white and one person can't judge what is notable or not.
This statement comes off as very close minded. Your saying that an anime is only relevant to the discussion if YOU thought it was good. What we are trying to say is that just because YOU don't find it to be a good anime doesn't mean that OTHERS didn't like it. We have to take into consideration the way the anime was received as a whole. But really this topic has strayed farther and farther away from the root discussion. It seems like we've gotten lost in the debates of what is "notable" and if 2000-2009 has been crappy or not. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Did you hear that loud *pop* just now? That was the sound of my head exploding because people won't let go of this absurd, semantic bullshit. There is no 'notable' argument. There never has been any 'notable' argument. The impression of such an argument is simply something manufactured by several of you people for reasons that truly escape my understanding.
I am saying that (obviously) I base my opinion on which were the best years on what I think were the best anime. I'm not going to go 'well gee, I sure did hate most of the anime this year but lots of other people like it so I guess I'll conclude it was a great bloody year.' As I made clear in my last post (and earlier as well) though...
I mean my god. I am stating my bloody opinion on which years I feel were best in a topic asking for your opinion on which years you think were best. Why in the hell are people busting my balls over this?
Capital time! I DID NOT CLAIM OTHERWISE. |
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cyberia_knight
Posts: 14 |
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This discussion is a bunch of mental gymnastics, just get a long guys we all have our own opinions, different taste in anime, I apologize for the dumb question lets just move on.
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