Forum - View topicCBLDF's new case in Georgia
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
s_j
Posts: 162 |
|
|||||
|
Good coverage here-->
http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=003422 (It's important to note that the book in question is not at all obscene.) At first glance this is not directly related to manga, but if Mr. Lee is convicted and the 'Distributing Material Depicting Nudity or Sexual Conduct' law is allowed to stand, there will be ramifications to the manga industry. If this law is succesfully applied in this case, then by the letter of the law giving any book with even a hint of nudity to minors is illegal. For example, if you're 17 in Georgia, a retailer cannot sell you Love Hina without risking being sent to jail for a minimum of 1 year, and a fine of $10,000. |
||||||
|
||||||
The Ramblin' Wreck
 Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
|
|||||
|
I happen to agree with the first poster on the site:
Love Hina is clearly marked with an OT rating on the back cover, and Diamond flags any titles that conflict with local and state laws. A more apt analogy is a bookstore handing out copies of Playboy to 14 year olds without their parents permission. I'd be pissed to. You can make the arguement that the punishment is too steep, which I'll probably agree with, but thats for the judge in the case to decide. I don't think my Waldenbooks clerk is going be dragged off in handcuffs for selling Negima! anytime soon. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
s_j
Posts: 162 |
|
|||||
|
Actually I think it's a pretty apt comparison. Both are comics. Both are marked for mature audiences (actually, Love Hina is marked for 13+, isn't it?) Both have nudity.
Read the law carefully. Any depiction of genitals, private areas, or ***buttocks*** is considered nudity. It says nothing about 'obscene material.' Love Hina, and a large number of manga for teens, could be affected. The nudity in 'Salon' was not lascivious, not prurient. (So, I can't see how you can compare it to Playboy.) But that law makes no distinction...if there's nudity, it's illegal to distribute to minors. That's why something like Love Hina would be affected by this law, too. That is, if the prosecution prevails. (I'd go so far to say that the nudity in Love Hina has an element of sexual tension, so it's probably even more likely to be labled as 'inappropriate.') I would agree that it'll be tough to get this guy off the hook, as long as that law is allowed to stand. I can't imagine any way other than taking this to court and having it found unconstitutional on free speech or interstate commerce grounds. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
The Ramblin' Wreck
Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
|
|||||
|
For the record, all of Love Hina is rated OT (17+)
http://www.tokyopop.com/dbpage.php?propertycode=LVH&categorycode=BMG Besides, Love Hina has been on the shelves for almost three years now. Ranma 1/2 for even longer. Somehow, I think that if there was going to be an issue, it would have occured by now. The issue is that he was distributing the material to minors knowingly for free, without parental consent. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
s_j
Posts: 162 |
|
|||||
|
Well, I'm holding my copy of Love Hina 2 right now, and on the lower bottom right corner of the back page, it's labled 'Teen Age 13+.' Every other book is labled 'Teen 16+.'
Anyway, the issue isn't whether the book was properly labled or not. If this law is upheld in court, then Love Hina cannot be sold to anyone under the age of 18 in Georgia, no matter how they lable it, simply because it has nudity as defined by the law. Heck, Dragonballs wouldn't be legal to sell to kids because it shows Goku's buttocks all the time. What's troublesome isn't that there's a low likelihood of this affecting manga...but that there's a likelihood at all. You may feel the retailer was in the wrong, that's fine. But if you think this law won't affect books like Love Hina if Georgia wins this case...you'd be quite wrong. In almost all cases of this type, all it takes is one irate parent. Booksellers will not run this risk. Also, there is a consititutional challenge to this law as well. Nudity alone does not make something obscene, not even for the lowered standards of children. The Salon was certainly intended for mature audiences, but whether it is obscene to children is still debatable. Yet, this law outlaws nudity in general, not obscenity. And the gist I'm getting from the CBLDF statement is that the law is intended primarily to apply to mail...so it probably runs afoul of interstate commerce laws. A bad law is a bad law, no matter if it's selectively enforced. (Which is against the fundamental principle of law, anyway.) |
||||||
|
||||||
|
The Ramblin' Wreck
Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
|
|||||
|
Also, this case isn't just a case of us evviiiiilill red-state church-going flag wavers in John Ashcroft's, er um, Albert Gonzales' Amerikkka versus boobies.
Look at the example they provided in the article. Panel 1: Naked women directing a man with the phrase "He's in there masturbating" In the background of this panel is naked man carrying a small child. Pedophilla? I don't know, but it could be infered. Panel 2: You have a nude man muttering to himself. Don' get the Leo Stein mention, but whatever. Panel 3: You have an obviously disturbed nude man yelling at the visitor. He asks in an accent "Who let you in? Was it the Bitch?" Panel 4: The nude man (Picasso) then flings his paint while yelling Spanish that I recognize from working one summer on a construction job. The nude women then replies "Go F#@! yourself, little man." Diamond clearly marked that this was for adults only.
Rational people can discuss weither or not this should be distributed to minors without parental consent. This is not some simple anatomy reference book. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
s_j
Posts: 162 |
|
|||||
|
I never said this was a red state issue. I never put down Georgia or its people. I know Atlanta is a great, liberal city.
I'm not arguing whether this book is appropriate for minors or not. What I am saying is that if Georgia prevails, this law *WILL* apply to a lot of manga that we consider OK for kids, simply because it does not differentiate prurient nudity from incidental nudity. Just read the law as it is written. Last edited by s_j on Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
|
|||||
|
Reading the article, it sounds like negligence. Seems to me that it was a mistake on his part, but not malicious. Sounds like someone overreacted and now we have this clogging up our courts. The parental unit should have simply thrown the book away.
I doubt the owner is going to be aquitted. This is in Georgia, after all. And handing out books with "nekkid" people in them to kids is going to get you a "guilty" sentence in no time flat. Atlanta may be on the liberal side, but so is Boulder here in Colorado, the state who's Congresspeople are trying to pass the Constitutional amendment against gay marriage. I would like to see laws like that overturned. They tried to pass a law in Colorado that wouldn't even allow you to display material that they deem unsuitable for children. I have enough problems deciding wether a 16+ anime goes in the Teen section or the 'R' section without having to screen EVERY manga, EVERY artbook and EVERY anime for objectionable material. Can't some people accept some personal responsiblility? On a similar note, I recently ended up showing a parent the ratings on the back of some translated manga. Because of this, he refused to buy his 12 year old daughter an Inu Yasha book. She shot me the dirtiest look. 
Last edited by beelzebozo on Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
s_j
Posts: 162 |
|
|||||
You did your job. That's exactly what responsible retailers ought to do. =) |
||||||
|
||||||
|
The Ramblin' Wreck
Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
|
|||||
Oh, no. I appreciate you point. That first line is for when GATSU finds the thread....... |
||||||
|
||||||
|
The Ramblin' Wreck
Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
|
|||||
Heh, from my cousin, you should try working at the ticket counter of a cineplex. "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T GO SEE AN R-RATED MOVIE!?!?!" - 15 year old |
||||||
|
||||||
|
beelzebozo
Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
|
|||||
I just felt sorry for her. She's obviously watching it on Cartoon Network, but the book version is too "mature" for her. Her parents may even refuse to let her watch it anymore. Same happens when parents come in to rent videos for thier kids. The 12-year olds are wanting Gundam Wing or Inu Yasha, but because of the ratings, their parents are only letting them rent from the Kids section, which has Yu-Gi-Oh, edited DBZ, and DIC's Sailor Moon. On the flip side, I had a parent come up to me with one of the Berserk DVDs to rent and the under 10-year-old child requesting it in tow. She demanded to know if it had any nudity in it. She was fine with violence, but there couldn't be any nudity. I had to bite my tongue telling her that I didn't believe that volume had any nudity in it. What I wanted to say was "No. ma'am, the show only contains a man who carries a sword, larger than himself, that is known to cleave people in half... often. But don't worry, there are no nipples to scar your child for life". I realize my responsibilites as a retailer, but at the same time, I've always been very anti-censorship. I've been reading adult novels, with explicit sex & violence, since I was 12. It urks me that anyone can be psychologically damaged by Ken Akamatsu's nippless wonders. |
||||||
|
||||||
Alchemist449
 Posts: 341 Location: LED ZEPPELIN! nuf said |
|
|||||
|
After looking at my collection I was suprised to find how many titles this law would affect-
Inu Yasha Ranma 1/2 Phoenix: Dawn Jing King of Bandits Chrno Crusade Fullmetal Panic Naruto Note- Why should the first few volumes of Akira be more okay to sell to someone 5 years old. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
dangeo
Posts: 10 Location: Virginia |
|
|||||
|
Hmmph. Convict someone for selling manga, which bears a rating, and has a drawing of a nippleless, hairless nude taking a shower, while same said minor is wearing a thong or is sexually active or getting dope easier than alcohol or carrying a gun if they really want to. Then we are constantly bombarded by sex sells advertising...
Is there anything specific we can do to help preserve manga in the US? |
||||||
|
||||||
Haiseikoh 1973
 Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
|
|||||
Impeach Dubya and execute Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell? |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group