Forum - View topicNEWS: Kodansha Reports 5.7 Billion Yen Loss in 2009
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||
They would if the choice was buy it or do without. There seems to be this ever growing group of people who simply are not willing to pay for it unless they have to. I don't mean guys who will read it if it's free but don't care otherwise. I'm talking about people who are very into anime and manga. People I really can not believe would just go 'oh well, I'll pass then' if they suddenly had to pay. It's this group that makes piracy a problem. This group really likes the product already. If they'd rather pirate than pay a cent though, then the content doesn't really matter. It's going to be equally good online as it is for sale. Improving the quality isn't going to help with these people. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
|
|||||||||||
And your clearly just making up excuses for why you don't buy anything. Talking to a man whose head is up their own ass is useless so goodbye |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
|
|||||||||||
What? This is wrong. It's entertainment, and it most certainly relates to music (anime buys licensing rights), movies (anime is produced), and gaming (some anime is based off games).
Region codes are a form of DRM, so this is also inaccurate.
You've no proof of this, so I'll just accept this as your opinion on why you believe sales have fallen. Me, I'm going with the increasing price of manga. A "dollar" may not be much, but avid buyers will see this affect their collection, when it now costs more to complete it. I've never, ever understood why businesses raise their prices during a recession rather than lower them. I certainly do not believe the production costs of a manga book are "$6.95". It's this mentality that causes people to get pissed off. Customers are having a tough time themselves, and to see companies say "Well, we're hurting, so we're putting the costs onto you now" doesn't fly anymore. Instead of buying, customers are simply saying "Not my problem, so treat someone else like crap." Thus, I can see where "piracy" comes into play, but even then, I'd say this is pushing the envelope. I would suspect customers are just saving and doing without rather than get what they want.
Maybe you need to have a chat with RIAA and MPAA, because they'll be the first to argue against these words, going so far as suing its customers.
But the ultimate choice still comes down to the viewer.
There's an interesting fan sub site I hit every so often which puts a nice little "Donation" message on its main page. It states it "needs" $X for operational costs, yet it remains in the red. The ironic thing here is fan sub sites need money to operate and yet they are also feeling the pinch of operation. A true pirate spends nothing, not even to sites who give them what they want. In addition, if a fan's unwilling to spend $20+ on anime, I seriously doubt they'll spend this on the fan sub website as well. I wouldn't be shocked one bit if the majority of "donations" rarely exceed $5 per person (which is what they bank on, actually). Kodansha's ills aren't over yet, as I won't be surprised if the first quarter of 2010 shows another decline. I'm pretty sure people would rather eat than read a manga they really don't need. Maybe, just maybe, Kodansha should re-investigate their pricing structure during these hard times and take a little vs. trying to retain those same revenues of 2007/08. Customers would appreciate it and will likely support an increase when times get better. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Jaymie
Posts: 915 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Well, Kodansha isn't that good of a publisher anyway. They have literally hundreds of excess magazines from the 90s that needed to be pruned for over a decade, but their heads are too inflated from the billions of dollars they have in their savings account. That's the recipe for bankruptcy, and Kodansha obviously doesn't have a clue.
And what ever happened to Kodansha USA? Weren't they looking to create a company like Viz and take America by storm?  . Instead we got two crappy reprints, Tokyopop being dragged down by Kodansha's stupidity, and Del Rey trying to pump out as much manga as they can before their contracts expire at the end of 2010.
Kodansha is also losing a bunch of popular titles in the near future. A lot of their bestsellers are finally ending, so they need to stop trying to drain the 90s of every last penny. The 90s are over; it's time to start focusing on the titles of today. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||
Uh...yeah. That's why it's more acceptable than in the movie/music industry. The anime industry generally does relatively little to combat piracy. Although I think he probably meant that it's more accepted by fans. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
|
|||||||||||
I tend to think it's because the anime industry, knowing it's fruitless fight against piracy, has decided to work with potential and current customers, rather than sue them. In other words: they're doing something about it, rather than whine about it. Take a look. We see quite a bit of anime on legitimate websites than most music and movie industries put out online currently. That speaks more volumes than "In the latest news, Rassett-Thomas has indicated a third trial is in her future". |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
|
|||||||||||
|
Giving in to peoples sense of entitlement doesn't necessarily resolve a problem. As the numbers strongly indicate on multiple fronts; these companies are losing money more often than they're earning.
I could start breaking in to your house and taking your stuff, saying I'm entitled to it. So do you resolve the issue by giving me a key and letting me take what I want? It might placate me, but you're still going to lose all your stuff. Other than that, telling people how things are and when you're countered and saying "prove it" is just going to result in a roundabout argument that goes nowhere, so knock it off. The proof is in the pudding. These companies are losing money left and right, and losing more now than before. Working with these customers isn't helping, and the losses are mounting more so than before. More so even than when the recession was at its worst. It's not a matter of "prove it", but rather just people who don't want to admit they're actions cost the industry and you get that whole sense of entitlement thing going again. As for $6.95, do you really think it doesn't cost $6.95. Between license and printing/paper fees, the margin attributed towards defects and damaged copies that are taken a loss on, the costs to the artists themselves, shipping and logistics to get the books where they need to be, any marketing they might need to employ to try and get the book out there, attributed business costs and employee salaries, and some room in there to profit since that is the whole point. Add to that an unpredictable and niche market which means more have to sell to even break even, and you can easily account for $6.95. You seriously overestime what $7 can get you these days. And frankly, if people can't handle $7 for something they really love, then that's pretty damn pathetic.
The ironic thing is this causes greater losses, and forces companies to raise prices or trim costs even more, which costs more jobs which adds to unemployment and poverty and causes another wave of the same events. The best part is that consumer actions are actually the biggest reason we're in a recession right now. Companies are to blame somewhat, but consumers have a big hand in it all. This whole ideology of sticking it too the man and finding more ways to screw companies and get more for nothing is at the center of a lot of problems. It forces companies to trim costs to remain profitable, which more often than not means lost jobs and outsourcing. People demand more and more for less, and in order to provide companies have to shed more and more weight to stay afloat. It's an endless cycle, fueled by the attitude you represent. It's hilarious how many people whine about spending habits and how people screw others over when it's their job on the line, but are happy to do the same to others so long as they're not feeling the pinch. All this rhetoric is nothing but a double standard that nobody is willing to admit to others, or themselves, that they have.
And here is where you have to prove yourself. Feel free to prove that people are being forced to choose between eating and paying for a $7 manga and that that major moral choice is the cause for piracy and not just people grabbing something for nothing because they can, regardless of the legality or moral implications. Otherwise, just as you demand proof, your point is also irrelevant bantering. Which of course leads us in to a roundabout and soapboxing, so feel free to stop here if that's the case.
We all know that that is complete BS, and an increase when times are better would hardly help considering the problem they need to survive is now. Until you can prove and present the companies financial records to demonstrate that they can take the hit you claim, you're once again just basing your statements on invented data. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
bayoab
Posts: 831 |
|
|||||||||||
This doesn't require any proof. It is trivial math. When you sell 1000 copies of an anime DVD versus selling 100000 copies of a mainstream DVD, the fraction of income lost by 500 pirated copies is much higher. (Claiming they aren't lost sales is making excuses as it has been repeatedly shown that people buy things they can't pirate.)
Except this is Japan and that argument is complete nonsense. You would see a different explanation if people weren't liking the new series. Additionally, you don't need pirated copies. You can spend a couple of dollars to go to a manga cafe or just stand and read in the stores (like how you can pull a book off the shelf in B&N). There is already a ton of try before you buy going on. Scans are probably hurting the weekly magazine sales the most as you no longer have to drop $3 to find out the newest info on your favorite series. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||
No, that's incorrect. It says they lost quite a bit less in 2009 than they did in 2008. Revenue has continued to decline. It's worth keeping in mind though that sales dropped only 8%. It was their advertising revenue that fell the most at a 25% increase. (I'm not trying to deny your point. I'm just saying your summary of the numbers is a bit misleading.)
Well then I guess you get an F. Sorry. Pirates do not exist in a vacuum* Their numbers are subject to changes in popularity too. If something is 100 times more popular it will also be pirated roughly 100 times as much. Hence, the higher number of sales is canceled out by the higher instances of piracy more or less. Unless there is a higher percentage of pirates (which there may be in the anime industry). Being a more niche product alone doesn't do it though. *Unless they're space pirates.
I have mixed feelings about this point. From a ethical point of view it is moot. People are still free to make their own decisions. From a practical point of view though, I agree. It is most concerning. Most people are made of a patented blend of twelve different stupid herbs and retarded spices. All it takes is a pinch of bullshit for them to justify their natural desire to pirate stuff. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Sheleigha
 Posts: 1673 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Replace "manga" with "PSP" and replace "good titles" with "Monster Hunter" and "Dragon Quest". Mangas don't have wi-fi you can play with friends on!
Besides, games are at an all-time rise in sales. Pirating, or not. Perhaps a clue? |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
|
|||||||||||
This is the most ridiculous and illogical argument I've seen in quite some time. "Indie movies have taken a hit because most of them suck. Look at THIS movie! It got really high on IMDB and they're taking donations!" Publishing has nothing to do with DRM either, and the eBook business (especially for manga) is barely in its infancy, not contributing meaningful revenue at all. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
mglittlerobin
 Posts: 1071 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Well it might be the fact that people in Japan aren't reading the magazines withe the manga chapters in them and are just waiting for it to be published in book format, and maybe the fact that they have so much being published at once they can't possibly earn enough money to break even.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
|
|||||||||||
|
Well, this is unfortunate, indeed. Pointing fingers, though, really isn't going to solve anything. I think that one of the bigger influences is moe.
It's not that I hate moe or anything, but after about five years of giving so many repetitive and unoriginal shows that bank on girls running around and acting cute, the fanbase is gonna get tired of it all. Besides, the anime industry has gone through huge rises-and-falls before (like with OVAs). It just hasn't coincided with such a massive global recession before. So, yeah, it's a massive Voltron of factors, and it's gonna be wiping the floor with the Evil Empire (sadly, that's us) for a bit more before Vehicle Voltron steps in to save the day. Thing's will improve eventually, I believe, and we'll all be able to sit back, relax, and forget that this whole chaos ever happened.... spoiler[Deluded much?] |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
ZenErik
 Posts: 392 Location: Boston |
|
|||||||||||
|
Piracy and an over saturated market are 2 things I see as problems.
Some people just won't pay for anything. I don't understand when some people are such huge anime/manga fans but then refuse to actually spend any money to support those industries. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
LKK
 Posts: 426 Location: Virginia, USA |
|
|||||||||||
|
Why are people discussing anime in this thread? The article is about Kodansha's falling publishing revenue. You know, things like books and magazines.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group