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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:37 pm Reply with quote
I want to say I'm still rather bothered by the rating given to Uraboku, even after the explanation earlier in the thread about streamed anime.
erinfinnegan wrote:
This really isn't a bad show, and if it were a DVD it would be Rental Shelf. It just falls into a category of shows I'm not overly fond of, somewhere between Ceres, Celestial Legend and Descendants of Darkness. (And by the way, I like Gravitation…)

If Gene Siskel had ever said "It just falls into a category of shows I'm not overly fond of," there probably never would have been Siskel & Ebert. Fondness for something or not is not a prerequisite for an informative critique.

But the point I'm getting at, from the review you gave of it, if using the thumb method it read more like you would have gave a thumbs up. So saying it's toilet worthy material (despite pointing out a lot of merits to the show) really implies it deserves a lesser rating simply because it's shounen ai: Even a show that is not your cup of tea should be able to get a Streamworthy rating. Very little in the review suggested it wasn't deserving of Streamworthy, however.


Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
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rockman nes



Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 271
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:56 pm Reply with quote
Yaoi Fangirls defending their honor ITT
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neocloud9



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 1178
Location: Atlanta, GA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:07 pm Reply with quote
rockman nes wrote:
Yaoi Fangirls defending their honor ITT


It occasionally needs defending. Wink

(We're still luckier than moe fanboys, though. Wowzers.)
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:14 pm Reply with quote
Anime World Order wrote:
I could be wrong, but...nah. I'll just assume anyone who claims otherwise is lying to save face.
In your own opinion not wrong. But to me yes. All wrong.
erinfinnegan wrote:
Reading a summary would not have dissuaded me, although reading a review would clearly have steered me away from the title.
Actually with this, you have just admitted all you needed to admit.
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4290
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
...but the only Japanese live-action porn I'm familiar with seems pretty innocuous. I go to aggregator sites like, say, Xhamster or Xvideos and click on the Asian or Japanese categories. Pretty much all you get are normal sex clips. But I have no doubt there is some pretty freaky stuff out there. Anyway, I like the Asian stuff because the women generally don't abide by the "clean-shaven" look that has lamentably taken over NA porn. On the down side, the, uh, "actresses" involved have a disconcerting habit of sounding like 10-year-old girls being tortured/murdered while simulating throes of passion. So yeah, it usually sound off for me.


NSFW pr0n talk: spoiler[WHU-WHU-WHUUUUT? Porn discussion in my anime? Why I never -

Okay, I lie. But, yeah, I've come to notice what you've noticed. But then, I normally don't watch the Asian categories as much (mainly because of the sounding like a 10-year-old part). But I also stick with gay/"lesbian" (the quotes signifying that 99% of the porn referred to as "lesbian" really isn't) porn rather than straight. But more than just the ladies, I also have trouble watching the Asian men, 'cause it's like... I like my men to look like, y'know, men. And in the Asian categories they throw in a lot of twinks or at least men who look younger. And I feel disturbed watching it.]


------------------

But back on a safer, less TMI topic.

I can understand why someone would like Gravitation more than Yami no Matsuei or could be disturbed by YnM more than the former. Gravi threw in a lot of humor into the series to make it lighter, and the actual boy/boy moments were less, er, sexually charged (at least IMO). YnM, on the other hand, while not having any explicit relationship (other than what's implied between Muraki/Hisoka and, later, Muraki/Tsuzuki) has more, what I consider, foreplay moments, especially when it comes to Muraki. Stroking the stem of his wine glass, binding/capturing Tsuzuki several times, the leers, the gestures. Ugh, I hate Muraki's guts, with a flaming, burning passion... he represents a majority of the qualities I hate most.

I personally prefer YnM to Gravi, because the connection between Hisoka and Tsuzuki was so much more impactful to me than Yuki and Shuichi (even though the latter is the only official couple).

Well, anyways, after reading the review of Uraboku, it sounds like something I wouldn't like. A lot of things Erin mentioned sounds like something I'd roll my eyes over.

I kinda disappointed to hear about the Soul Eater review. After Erin's reviews of previous releases, I was quite impressed with the shounen series (and I normally don't care for shounen). But hearing about this seems-like-filler-episodes disappoints me. Maybe I'll just have to skip over them if I end up watching the series.

Salaryman Kintaro sounds interesting. Thanks for the review, Erin!


Last edited by Crisha on Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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neocloud9



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:20 pm Reply with quote
willag wrote:
I personally prefer YnM to Gravi, because the connection between Hisoka and Tsuzuki was so much more impactful to me than Yuki and Shuichi (even though the latter is the only official couple).


Yeah, same here. And that's mostly what I've heard from fellow yaoi fans, too. Hence my surprise when Erin voiced her preferences - though it seems as though she was judging based on a much different scale than we were...
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:50 pm Reply with quote
poonk wrote:
P.S. I was initially interested in Uraboku until I heard the whole bit about "Character X being Character Y's reincarnated female lover." I find that kind of plot twist grating. It's like they want to have a m-m romance on the surface but insist on tinkering with it so that it's not really gay (because X has a "female soul" or whatever. Bleh.). Probably the same reason (some) yuri fans turn their noses up at the cross-dressing boy/sex-change plots.
But it is not really accurate to say that most BL and yaoi is gay anime/manga either. It is more a genre of romance that involves two men that you can't really call a reflection of true-to-life homosexual relationships. If it was, the large majority of readers would not be fangirls. This is why I dislike some of the biased opinions about BL, because the complaints involved with the subject matter are things that don't even exist in the genre. Fujoshi (I'm not one) have their fantasies and reasons for reading BL and that's fine, I have fantasies that satisfy my type of content which is that girly-boy, crossdresser, gender bender gets the sexy guy stuff that is still actually quite uncommon. I fangasm over those.
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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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Location: In the Library with Philip
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:42 pm Reply with quote
Past wrote:
poonk wrote:
P.S. I was initially interested in Uraboku until I heard the whole bit about "Character X being Character Y's reincarnated female lover." I find that kind of plot twist grating. It's like they want to have a m-m romance on the surface but insist on tinkering with it so that it's not really gay (because X has a "female soul" or whatever. Bleh.).
But it is not really accurate to say that BL and yaoi is gay anime/manga. It is more a genre of romance that involves two men that you can't really accept as a reflection of true-to-life homosexual relationships.
....
Fujoshi (I'm not one) have their fantasies and reasons for reading BL and that's fine, I have the type of fantasies that satisfies my type of content which is that girly-boy, crossdresser, gender bender gets the sexy guy type stories that are still actually quite uncommon. I fangasm over those.
I do understand that BL is not representative of actual gay comics, so I didn't mean to imply that. My point was that I saw this reincarnation plot device as a "copping out" based on my expectations of a title I thought was directed at my fanbase. Having read your post I thought about it a little and realized that I spoke out of a bit of personal disappointment-- this was the only non-sequel I was eyeing this season and it turned out to be not my thing. But maybe instead of complaining about it as a disappointment (imo) for a BL title I should instead view it as a sort of a gender-bending romantic drama. I can dig that.

To Willag, re: the spoiler-hidden stuff:
spoiler[Huh, I can't put a quote in spoilers? Anyway...
"But more than just the ladies, I also have trouble watching the Asian men, 'cause it's like... I like my men to look like, y'know, men. And in the Asian categories they throw in a lot of twinks or at least men who look younger. And I feel disturbed watching it."
--Maybe try some CoatWest titles?
]


Last edited by poonk on Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:20 pm; edited 3 times in total
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:43 pm Reply with quote
What the hell are you guys talking about? I looked up xvideos thinking it was something weird and it turned out to be porn and I had the volume turned up all the way and one of those sex pop ups came up all loud. I haven't been scared like that since the Maze game. Screw you guys man put up some not NSFHome labels up next time.
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_Emi_



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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Location: Langjökull
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:08 am Reply with quote
Blood-'s post, where he mentions Xvideos, is entirely about Japanese live-action porn. I thought it was blatantly obvious that Xvideos was a porn site. What did you think was going to be on the site?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:14 am Reply with quote
poonk wrote:
I do understand that BL is not representative of actual gay comics, so I didn't mean to imply that. My point was that I saw this reincarnation plot device as a "copping out" based on my expectations of a title I thought was directed at my fanbase. Having read your post I thought about it a little and realized that I spoke out of a bit of personal disappointment-- this was the only non-sequel I was eyeing this season and it turned out to be not my thing. But maybe instead of complaining about it as a disappointment (imo) for a BL title I should instead view it as a sort of a gender-bending romantic drama. I can dig that.
Ok cool, I support the fanbase toward BL/yaoi so however it's interpreted and appreciated by the fans I always encourage interest in it. I hope it didn't seem like I was being critical of your personal opinion of it (I wasn't), I just wanted to point out how there are varied misunderstandings and inaccuracies presented by those who avoid acquiring a little knowledge of the subject matter (not you of course). Since my personal interests actually lay outside the general BL realm as well, I don't see why the sexual nature of it necessarily creates so many negative impressions of it. The title in question, Uraboku is not at all explicit, since it's streaming so should be viewed equally as any other title on the site.


Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:18 am Reply with quote
_Emi_ wrote:
Blood-'s post, where he mentions Xvideos, is entirely about Japanese live-action porn. I thought it was blatantly obvious that Xvideos was a porn site. What did you think was going to be on the site?


I thought you had to click somewhere to get to the porn, not on the front page. I've been looking for a youtube substitute for a while now, I was hoping that would be it.
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
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Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:51 am Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:
What the hell are you guys talking about? I looked up xvideos thinking it was something weird and it turned out to be porn and I had the volume turned up all the way and one of those sex pop ups came up all loud. I haven't been scared like that since the Maze game. Screw you guys man put up some not NSFHome labels up next time.

At first I was wondering "Why are you so worried?" and then I remembered you're, like, 16 and proceeded to laugh.

I actually thought Blood put the Xs in there to censor himself so others wouldn't look them up.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:08 am Reply with quote
I'm going to ask a naive question here, but since this thread seems to have a number of intelligent women who like BL/yaoi materials maybe you have some ideas about this.

From what I read, many women seem drawn to this genre because it has a larger dose of romance and emotion than manga and anime about heterosexual relationships. Is that a valid observation? If so, that saddens me as a heterosexual male who likes emotion and romance. Are the lines in Japan so strictly drawn between shounen/seinen and shoujo/josei based on an expectation that males only want to see fighting guys or cute girls (or, even better, cute girls who can fight) and women only want to see bishie guys who can emote?

I know I've drawn this in very stark terms, and there are certainly shows on both the male and female sides of the ledger that are obvious exceptions (Cross Game on the shounen side, for instance). Still I find that "seinen" shows rarely include adult romance. Most shows I've seen that can be classified as seinen are ones like Shion no Ou, Mononoke, or House of Five Leaves, which are essentially romance-free. The ones that include romance tend to have a senpai relationship (like Planetes and Library Wars) which place the woman in the inferior role right from the start. I don't see many anime shows that can be classified as josei, but if Saiunkoku or Nodame are any indications, that genre has at best a mixed relationship to romance as well.

Strong adult women like Balsa of Moribito or Nina Fortner of Monster never seem to have a romantic life.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:42 am Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
I actually thought Blood put the Xs in there to censor himself so others wouldn't look them up.


Laughing I know I'm a freak, but even *I* wouldn't surf a porn site that was just called "Hamster." Sorry, KanjiZ, for your traumatic aural/visual experience but given the context of my post it never even occurred to me that somebody wouldn't understand that these sites were teh pron.
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