Forum - View topicANNCast - Kirk Up Your Ears
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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Oh, that one scene in Watership Down showing the spoiler[destruction of their burrow...] Plague Dogs also had a really dark and depressing atmosphere. I'll probably check out Cat Shit One anyway  I have heard the original manga was pretty good. Though it may be somewhat difficult, being an animal lover and owning a rabbit (and several other animals). Happy Tree Friends annoys me more than it makes me uncomfortable, though. I guess I just end up viewing them more as humans than I do animals in this case...If the Cat Shit One characters weren't anthropomorphic, I'd probably avoid it. Series with violence and animals don't bother me, but series that take the concept and use it as an excuse to show nothing but violence annoy me.
Seeing that I have not seen it, though, I have to ask...Is the writing terrible? Is it basically animals killing each other with guns the entire episode with no room for character development or anything? The impression I got from the original, at least from what I've heard, is that it included social commentary or some other point. Changing the setting for this series doesn't seem like a good sign. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Am I the only one who thinks Toonzaki sounds a bit too much like Toonami? Also he talks about the time when they "had to edit those shows" like it was an age ago when it was only like five, or six years ago. Network attitudes to childrens content can't have changed that much in that time, so really what can they do to improve how they do things except not sign for an anime without seriously reviewing it before hand? I still think as long as Khan is at the helm 4Kids is going to keep heading for the mud next to the Titanic. If I was Mr. Kirk I'd be keeping my CV up to date.
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cohenmarioman
 Posts: 102 |
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Considering he didn't work for 4kids, he can say it was a while ago. And 6 years is quite a long time. |
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Hiroy
Posts: 3 |
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Regarding One Piece. I found it a tad bit disappointing they haven't bought the terrible dialogue and crappy jokes were put into the show. I mean, when you look at their more successful shows like Pokemon and Yugioh, you'd see it isn't a matter of editing content. It's telling the story and bringing in a similar feel to the original broadcasting.
I'm sure it would have worked. I mean Funimation has the suck up to rules too, and they did pretty fine with heavy amount editing. But whatever though. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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On the issue with guns and death on a kids show. Didn't Bambi have hunters with guns and the killing of Bambi's mother? Who and when in American did someone state that it would be too distressing to show a child that living things can die and guns are the tools of death, and therefore shouldn't be shown in any way? America? the one nation with the largest civilian weapon ownership on the planet? How does an American family deal with a death of a member of it? "Oh grandma is just sleeping and because she won't ever wake up we're burying her in the ground" ? So Americans don't let their 7 year old watch the nightly news with graphic reports from Iraq, or Afghanistan? So a kid watches a sanitised cartoon then goes to play GTA on his PS3? Did sanitising cartoons stop any of the school shootings? Pissing into the wind comes to mind. 
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Dagon123
Posts: 194 |
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@ Zac
That response fits your Skeletor avatar very well I personally never hated 4kids for their rendition of One Piece, It was an ok dub, and I was like 10 the first time I saw it, now I go back and watch it unedited, no bad blood, same way with Yu-gi-Oh (Actually I prefer dub to sub, Yami can't be anyone but Dan Green ^_-) Also to the guy on the first page who said FUNimation "saved the day", theirs a difference between saving the day and making great products, and being the only one left without financial trouble, giving you the leeway to license tons of mediocre products without people really being able to do anything, Long Live ADV and Pioneer |
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Graddick
 Posts: 46 |
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Way to simplify my comment and dismiss it with a childish "NO YOU". If you don't like criticism then don't actively solicit it with these comment threads. This is why I find more intelligent conversation on 4chan than I do here. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Dude, your original argument was a childish "NO YOU", almost literally! Good lord. If you don't like your criticisms being responded to by the people you're hurling them at, feel free to disengage from our discussion threads. Thanks buddy! Have an awesome weekend! |
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Graddick
Posts: 46 |
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Which I then followed with an explanation. Simplifying what I said and adding "DURR" on the end of it doesn't convince me that I'm wrong. Perhaps its true that "it's been proven over and over again" but you'll have to forgive me for not just taking your word for it. Otherwise I'll assume that it was lifted right from the pages of The International Journal of Make Sh!t Up. It would have been more reasonable to say that this was your own opinion rather than saying that anyone who doesn't get as upset about you about hurting bunnies is a sociopath. It's too bad, I would have enjoyed discussing how and why different types of violence elicit different responses from different people. I guess I'll have to seek intelligent conversion elsewhere. Off to the local high school anime club!
I will. Lame passive-aggressive sarcasm doesn't work on everyone. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4439 |
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Keep in mind that Batman: TAS was on TV years before the current standards that 4Kids deals with. And according to one of the commentary tracks on the DVDs, Bruce Timm and his crew actually had to use a work around to have those guns. We see a shot of the villain using the gun, and then, separately, a shot of Batman dealing with the gunfire. They couldn't have the shooting and the bullets potentially hitting Batman in the same shot. So realistic guns were still considered inappropriate, but they made the effort to create a middle ground. That's a lot harder to do if you're adapting something that is already made than if you create it yourself. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Alright, alright, I'll get sincere- To be honest, I don't think you're "wrong" at all - I think how we respond to movie violence is such a deeply personal thing, be it violence against animals or humans or whatever - that you simply can't argue it down to someone being "right" about the "best" way to react to it. My comments about audiences always caring more about the dog comes from what feels like countless essays and commentaries from a huge variety of filmmakers who have espoused that view. It's always been a golden rule in moviemaking - "don't hurt the dog". I can't point to any direct scientific studies, but these filmmakers have their movies relentlessly audience-tested, and with test audiences, violence against animals (unless it's done in an appropriately comedic/cartoonish fashion) always gets a hugely negative reaction. Again, this is from essays and commentaries by filmmakers. I will say this - the "sociopath" comment was total hyperbole and if you listened to the rest of the show, I walked it back later. People who enjoy Cat Shit One are not sociopaths (well, some of them might be, how should I know?). What I was drawing from there - and this IS a completely personal opinion, one I hold with strong conviction - that people who sincerely enjoy watching animals get hurt or killed are pretty messed up in the head. I cannot understand why anyone would find joy in that. Cat Shit One doesn't cross the line enough for me to sincerely believe that you'd have to be a budding Hannibal Lecter to really enjoy it, but it was close enough to the uncanny valley for me - especially in the animals' faces - to flip the personal switch in my brain that goes from "this is cartoon fun" to "this is somewhat sickening to me as someone who loves animals". That's pretty much it. The meta-argument about whether or not I *should* feel that way about war movies with human characters (for the record, the hardcore, gritty war violence in films like Saving Private Ryan or The Pacific turns my stomach just as much as any violence against animals, but those films are trying to expose the audience to the true horror of war and thus are making an important artistic and emotional statement) is irrelevant. It's such a personal thing, such a personal reaction, that rectifying it against someone else's standard for this sort of thing is pointless. I don't think you're a sociopath for enjoying Cat Shit One. I use hyperbole in the show sometimes, and I do feel I walked that comment back in the show. (also, that last bit in my last post wasn't passive aggressive sarcasm, it's friendly dismissal!) |
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Graddick
Posts: 46 |
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Thank you for that response.
I apologize if my previous posts came off as obnoxious. |
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cohenmarioman
Posts: 102 |
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I agree with you, but CW and/or whatever network carries the show does not. They see guns as not a good thing, so they aren't there/taken out. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6263 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Interesting podcast. I can understand why 4kids did this, but really I don't think they should have picked up One Piece in the first place. It was a wrong move, the same thing for Yu-gi-oh, Shaman King, Tokyo Mew Mew. 4kids wasn't the only one that did this edit practice other company like Saban, Funimation, and Bandai did this practice when they wanted to broadcast anime on TV. But thanks to channel like Adult Swim, Ani-Monday anime don't face major editing. Also, site like Youtube and Hulu make anime accessible and uncut. Fans forgive Funimation, Bandai, and Saban because it was different back then. I think we should forgive 4kids (I know I'll get hated for it). 4kid, I really respect you more when you're planning to make Toonzaki which I thought was a great idea, good move. But can I add ways how to make your show more accessible when you broadcast show for kids:
-Don't pick up anime that are not aimed at kids or anime that might have violence, sex, religious reference, or any inappropriate thing that Standard & Practice may not like. That way you won't have to do major editing (I saw some of your edited anime being sloppy). Pick up anime that is tamed for kids (that means no violence, no sex, no alcohol, no any questionable content when it was shown in Japan), they require less edit and it won't get sloppy. Also, please don'r change the music, the original music is just fine and they were meant to appeal international audience. -Please do not americanize character name, don't change the character Japanese name to English name. Kids can learn how to be multicultural and kids (11+) do watch hardcore anime with their old brother/sister when they have chance and they will know if you americanize anime. It's more fun if kids can learn name in Japanese if you don't change the character's Japanese name. The same thing for foods, culture, or anything non-American. Kids can learn other culture from watching anime (or any foreign animation). Don't remove them. The same thing applies to European animation, don't Americanize cultural item in European Animation. Kids can learn them if they watch it. I found Winx Club was edited and I found the edit (Americanizing the clothes name) to be just stupid. I'm proud that 4kids are going the right way by putting up uncut subbed anime of their properties online and on their future site, Toonzaki. I would love if 4kids can apologize for what they did to One Piece and other anime and maybe a lot of people can forgive them. Speaking of Saban. Zac, Justin is it possible that you can get Saban or someone from Saban Entertainment to do a podcast with you guys. It would be nice if they can talk about how they got involved with anime (and power ranger), and also if they have any future going back into anime business (and hoping that they think about the core audience demographic, not kids). |
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cohenmarioman
Posts: 102 |
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If Mark is still here, I would like to provide a link to a video you might not have known was being shown yesterday. At Comic Con, Konami showed this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfYYSN_-k7E) I was wondering why 4kids isn't listed on the trailer for trailer. And does this mean you didn't know this was being shown, and would like to comment now?
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