Forum - View topicOk to love lolis? I think so.
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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Toddlers in Tiaras doesn't glamorize anything and I doubt many people in America watch it and think it's cool. Reality Tv as a whole is somewhat meant to be appealing in the same way as a car accident is.
So if that's your defense then no it doesn't quite well. I'm not going to say the people who like these type of anime are bad people or something. No that's not true and they can't help what they like. What I will say is I don't like these people and find them creepy. Fine you fine these things cute, but the fact that grown men are finding and searching out entertainment in the form of cartoons staring characters drawn to give the impression of super young and cute girls and sometimes having them in very sexual context is not something I personally find alright. I don't get it and I don't want to. I don't get why people would be interested in cute girls designed to be cute and appear young and made to have very boring personalities. I don't understand why people like these shows that seem devoid of any real character development and attempts at solid storytelling and are only about presenting these cute girls with specific archtypes to nourish this fandoms desires. This is'nt why I got into anime and it's not what I want from anime. And I find how this has taken over the internet face of anime to be kind of annoying. If you like this stuff, thats fine more power to you. I'm sorry you feel unfairly attacked because you like something you don't see as wrong. But at the same time I'm sorry I do find it kind of wrong. Say it's because a difference in culture, but I really doubt in Japan this fascination with young looking anime characters is that accepted in the mainstream public. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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It's been on air for 4 years and it has 2 spin offs. That sort of longevity isn't caused only by 'car accident' appeal. Even so the fact remains that those sorts of pagents exist. And there's also stuff like kid sized bikinis that parents buy for their kids to wear.
Well the "boring personalities" part is purely subjective. There are lots of characters out there that had interesting personalities. Even if some can be pretty basic, well, not everyone can have some hidden past trauma, or multiple personalities, or whatever it is one might consider "interesting." There's plenty of character development too. Trust me, good looks only go so far. If a character proves to be devoid of personality even ardent fans will wander. Take Ro-Kyu-Bu. Lolis playing basketball, one might think, but that's only a surface impression. Through basketball all the girls learn and grow. Airi overcomes her height complex, Maho finds something she wants to stick with, Momoka finds a place that accepts her talents. Plenty of solid storytelling, too. Some might just be on the mundane side. Again, not all lives are filled with angst and drama and whatever. Sometimes the biggest thing some one has to worry about is learning to play guitar, or not failing a test. But there are shows that aim higher. Nanoha for example has interdimensional politices and high speed magical dogfights. It's fine if you don't like it or don't get it, but don't just write everything off as mere fetish fuel. |
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Parse Error
 Posts: 592 |
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Well, they only said is those shows seemed that way to them, which is understandable as a subjective opinion. I wouldn't claim the character development in Ro-Kyu-Bu is on the same level as in Blue Gender, so if that's where somebody's expectations are set, then it's entirely possible for it to fly under their radar, or just seem like a show trying to give itself a weak justification for existing. That isn't to say those elements can't be on the same level, but because the shows are basically fanservice vehicles, their other potential merits often aren't given enough priority and prominence to easily win over someone who is grossed out by the fanservice. I couldn't really blame anyone who feels that way for trying to avoid them. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15470 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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That is actually really funny how incorrect this can be. Ro-Kyu-Bu was already mentioned by Vaisaga, but I could name a number. KnJ has so much it is pretty overpowering: at the very tip there is someone treated wrongly because of their mature body, another trying to come to terms with her crush on her best friend, and then there is Rin whose issues with her mother greatly affected her perception of relationships. Astarotte actually has the title character initially traumatized by something she saw that is made pretty clear as inappropriate, and got a skewed perception of men. The series deal quite a lot into a less sexual relationship then you would think, the character developing into being much happier person. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4085 |
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I agree absolutely, Ro-Kyu-Bo did more in its one cour run than Blue Gender did in two. Wait, you claim Blue Gender is a positive example of character development? The show where if you're not one of the main two characters, you're either dead or meaningless to the plot before too long? The show had to develop those two, there wasn't anyone else to work with.
As long as you ignore the past plot point {point of the whole series, really} that the boy had sex with the demon woman, but I suppose it's different for shotas than it is lolis. And if you ignore the idea that the shows loves to toy {ah ha} with the idea of his daughter as part of his harem. "Does this offend you? I'm not doing it but maybe, no. Still..." Lolis? No, I prefer boobs actually but I'm not Japanese so I don't count. But I don't mind them and unless it's part of the plot {say, like Tenchi's Washu being a loli in an adult's body. You'd think it'd be the other way around but really, it's more like this, at least contextually. I should also point out that Tenchi was more comfortable with the loli form than the adult one...}, I tend to think of them as children. In suggestive poses wearing short skirts? It's ok. Fan service is in the eye of the beholder after all. Perverts. |
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Parse Error
Posts: 592 |
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Which makes it impossible for anyone to miss, as the rest of that post explains. I'm talking about focus, or "priority and prominence" as I described it later. If somebody feels uncomfortable with the type and quantity of fanservice in an anime, it's going to have to beat them over the head pretty hard with something else in order to drown that out. I would agree that Nanoha does that in terms of story, but despite the fact that there's good character development and story in Ro-Kyu-Bo, I do not believe the intensity level of their presentation is sufficient to penetrate the prejudice some people would have against it. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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All of these American reality shows glamorize their content. The whole purpose of a reality TV show is to create as big of a spectacle as possible to incite viewers to keep coming back for more. They don't play the stuff down and just present the facts. That would be a documentary. Reality TV is all about BIG, IN YOUR FACE, DRAMATIC, GLAMOROUS. As others have mentioned, Toddlers in Tiaras has been running for quite some time so it is clearly a well received show among a large number of the population (possibly mainly hillbillies, but hey, everyone deserves to have their shows). Also, consider this - if I were to go around asking random people in America about political leaders, historically important persons, or leaders in science/math etc., many would probably come up clueless. However, if I were to ask them about Jonbenet Ramsey or Shirley Temple, I can pretty much guarantee that the vast majority would know exactly who I am talking about and would be able to have an image of those two girls pictured in their mind. If either of those two were somehow represented in an anime title, we would rightfully call that a play at loli. America has its own loli interests, it just is much more subtle and self-flagellating about it. Interesting little tidbit about Shirley Temple, from her Wikipedia page which I think illustrates my point:
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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I know a lot leave out of lack of interest, but don't most child actors try to keep going have a hard time staying in the business as they grow up?
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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Not necessarily. I think there is certainly a case by case analysis to consider, but there are some well known examples of child actors who transition into bigger stars as they mature. A few examples I can think of off the top of my head are Raven Symone, Shia LaBeouf, Elijah Wood, and Christian Bale... oh yea, plus the entire cast of the Harry Potter movies. I think the biggest impediment to Shirley Temple transitioning in that way is that she essentially embodied the very essence of the American loli character. Seeing her in any other way was unacceptable to the American public. Some more stuff on Shirley Temple. I was never even aware of this, but here is an article from the New York Press from 2005 discussing the connection between Lolita and Shirley Temple New York Press Article on connection between Lolita and Shirley Temple And, this wikipedia article discusses the series of short films starring Shirley Temple which is referenced in the New York Press article. The series of films was called "Baby Burlesks," and featured toddlers and young children (including Shirley Temple) playing very adult roles, including one in which Shirley Temple (then age 4 or 5) plays a prostitute meant to seduce a Washington politician. Here is an excerpt from the wikipedia article:
Last edited by ChibiKangaroo on Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:41 am; edited 2 times in total |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15470 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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And Dakota Fanning, was a huge child star. I know she was in that recent franchise, it had something to do with sparkly fairies. I had some initial trouble seeing her as something different from her younger roles. |
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Parse Error
Posts: 592 |
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Unfortunately, society has had a long time to grow accustomed to the idea of children being sexually exploited. They may not believe it is right, but they're willing to accept it as an inevitable fact of life, and end up caring more about keeping up the mere appearance of moral outrage than they do about actually helping existing and potential victims. When you hear about some of these major child sexual abuse scandals, you find that many, many people knew exactly what was going on for years, even decades, yet they never once lifted a finger to put an end to it. Suddenly, once public awareness reaches a certain threshold where they no longer have the option of sweeping it under the proverbial rug in private, those same people will turn right around and vehemently condemn the very atrocities they had willingly enabled up to that point. People simply refuse to deal with the issue in order to spare kids from a living hell, because all they seem to truly care about is giving everyone the impression that they would if they thought they could, when they know they can but still won't even bother to try. The idea of people being sexually attracted to cartoon characters, on the other hand, is something fairly new and frightening. To many people, it likely appears even more depraved and unnatural than what they are already used to. It is the devil they don't know, an unprecedented boogeyman, the perfect opportunity to polish their public and self images without having to intervene in a difficult and ugly situation. I believe this is why it has become the target of choice for self-styled moral crusaders. |
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guildmaster
 Posts: 355 Location: Hot & Humid FL |
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Not disagreeing with what you wrote later, but didn't this sort of thing lead to the Jon Benet Ramsey tragedy? |
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kanechin
Posts: 447 |
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you like lolis - whatever
you like real young girls - whatever whatever floats your boat, I don't do law enforcement, I just want a FMP season 4 or GTO shonan anime. |
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jsc315
 Posts: 925 |
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way to contribute nothing to this thread. Anyways, I have no problem with what people enjoy or like. I often find entertainment out of some really horrible and disturbing horror movies so I'm not one to judge. I'm not sure if anyone can follow this or understand what I'll be trying to say so if anyone has any issues with what I say please dont get mad. I find that the whole "loli" thing to be under the term exploitation. Now that isn't a bad thing at all. I love movies from the 70s and many of them exploitation movies and have something to say. Sometimes it's something interesting or just trying to push the envelop further by making a statement by going to extreme lengths. This can often bring gross and disturbing images and shocks people. Sometimes people dismiss this kind of thing and something wrong and awful when really sometimes these kind of movies have something more to say then many mainstream movies could ever achieve. I'm not saying exploitation movie are always like this but I've seen a fair amount and I feel like "loli" is kind of more of a misunderstood part of anime as is exploitation movies. Not all of it is good and some of it is pretty awful but there is stuff out there that has some value and judging people because of something they do not understand is never good. Also comparing mainstream Reality TV to some weird niche anime is kind of pointless. Reality TV more often then not, its the most bland and uninteresting things out there on TV. There is almost no effort put in those type of shows and for the most part are there to entertain the brain dead middle america. There is absolutely no value in the majority of shows like that. The only decent thing about stuff like that is to poke fun of it, but there is much better and more unique stuff out there to do that with. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Okay, I find that statement VERY offensive because 1. You're assuming that all people who watch lolicon anime are adult men who get off on the lolis themselves and I am not one of these people. 2. You're also assuming that the only people who can possibly like lolicon anime are lolicons themselves, because that's all lolicon anime has to offer. Both assumptions are wrong. |
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