Forum - View topicReading Between the Lines
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GTC
Posts: 9 |
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This is starting to get a little ridiculous. Lets look at the actual question posed.
I ask the questions what are the points that one should make in the age old anime argument sub vs dub i have always been on the side of dub while i can see many points are quite true and valid my stomach turns when people say "because i want the pure emotion and translations than that hack and butchered versions made by comapnies to take all the money from your pockets" which i am sure you know that covers alot of anime fans that go so far as to hate subtitles made by companies and they only go for fansub thinking they are better than all. i always make the case that these people are usualy in college studying japanese and no subtitles are purer than dub since its the same idea. "I ask the questions what are the points that one should make in the age old anime argument sub vs dub" means if I were to argue over this particular debate what points should I use if I believe this, and he goes on to state his opinion, saying he hates sub elitists and purists (this is the letter writer, not Zac) and Zac responded on a rant sure, but it is an opinion editorial column, you are essentially getting mad at a guy for giving his opinion when you write in asking his opinion. If I were Zac I would be much harder, Zac is being nice in my opinion. You can't cry everytime someone says something negative about you. (How did you ever make it through High School) For the berserk thing, he answered with facts, sure he seemed annoyed, but you would be annoyed too if someone e-mailed you the same question everyday even after you have answered them several times, the only reason he answered this one was to clarify that Berserk had not been canceled, only put on hiatus. Again opinion column getting mad at stating opinion. The Flake of the Week guy deserved it. Zac said what he said last week about Naruto and this "expert" full on asked for an apology, when he obviously has no idea what he is talking about, the guy was a jerk and, it seems, the type of person who has cast the anime fan into a bad light in our society. Its funny how the other two questions he answered fully without being slighltly disparaging (in your guys' eyes) are virtually ignored. Anyway I believe fansubs are okay as a tool to be able to watch stuff that has yet to be released on DVD, such as stuff just released in Japan or stuff that is liscenced but we have to wait 2-3 years for the ending (I do watch Naruto and One Piece subbed only because I don't want to wait several years just to pick up where I left off). I buy tons, I have bought Cromartie High, GTO, Excel Saga, and Samurai 7 because of fansubs. I get rid of the weekly episodes I download (I am not gonna watch them again, why keep them) I keep the series I download (Lupin III first season, Air, Sexy Commando, mostly stuff not liscensed yet or never gonna be liscensed) I only once downloaded a liscensed and released series, Berserk, just so I could see the last 8 episodes. I am also poor (not nearly as much as some, God no) but I have to go for times where I cannot afford any type of luxury, there are things I see that I really want, but I go without (I just bought the second Samurai 7 DVD as a treat for getting a job) its called willpower, and if you lack that you have bigger problems than where to get anime. It can be considered intellectual property theft but at the same time the analogy of downloading anime is equivalent to stealing a car doesn't work. You steal a car, CD, DVD, food, whatever, that product is gone, there is no possible way for a vendor or the owner to sell or have that item again, when you download you are really recieving a (usually inferior) copy of this program, but the original tangible copy is still available. Its equivalent of saying you stole a painting because you took a picture of it, or stole music because you recorded it off the radio. I AM NOT DEFENDING FANSUBS, I am only saying there is no way to be analogous because it is such a unique process, nothing else is like it. All I am really trying to say with this is pay attention to the sources of the argument, don't jump to conclusions, and don't get mad when you ask someone their opinion and they give it. Keep up the great work Zac and be more of a jerk if you can. |
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ACDragonMaster
 Posts: 405 |
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Actually, no. You can "steal" products by, for example, making a copy of a rented VHS tape. And ever notice thus warnings against copying at the beginning of tapes? Yeah, it's a form of stealing, and it's illegal.
It might not be stealing the physical object, but it is stealing the money owed the person who created it. |
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MarxLuver
Posts: 2 |
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ACDragonMaster,
I wasn't trying to "debate" with you. My stance on this issue is completely irrelevant and I don't care if other people don't agree with me, nor do I care to bring them over to my way of thinking. My point is...everyone on this board is interested in anime. But instead of discussing THAT, we choose to squabble and fight over something which, in the end, has no significant bearing on reality. This forms divisions within the community and often makes for a distinctly unpleasant environment, such as the one seen here. And since you're all ready to handle the ethics of fansubbing AND everything else in the world, I assume you also have some great ideas for solving some of life's REAL problems. No? Sorry...get back to me once you fall off of that high and mighty pedestle. I'm not trying to "Manipulate" you, although it's fascinating that you're so paranoid as to think a random post on a message board was intended to do that. I'm trying to point out that a) all this debating will get no one anywhere, and NO issues will get resolved and b) that it just produces useless hatred amongst people who, for all purposes, should like each other. |
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fargazer
 Posts: 29 Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee |
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I just can't resist tossing in my two cents worth here. As several have related, I too have been poor enough to not know where my next meal was coming from; at that point, you are worried about keeping a roof over your head, not where your anime is coming from.
Most people have beaten the points I would make like a rug, but no one yet has directly addressed the "I'm too poor to afford anime, so I have to download it" argument (sometimes used for college students, where a computer and internet connection is often an necessity in spite of low income). For those claiming anime is too expensive, here are some options (in no particular order): 1. Anime Clubs. Clubs meet typically anywhere from once a week (such as Huntsville Alabama Anime Society to once a month Chattanooga Anime Club. For several hours at the meetings we watch a wide variety of anime; I've also noticed that members (once they get to know you) tend to be willing to loan or swap DVDs. 2. Conventions. Not just anime conventions, but also science fiction conventions often have a video room showing anime. You can usually tell from the convention's web site if they will be showing anime or not. 3. Secondhand bookstores. Any store handling DVDs will often have a section with anime in it. My local secondhand prices tend to be between $8 and $15 per DVD. The only thing to watch for is sometimes it's cheaper in the long run to buy a series in one of the new "thinpak" editions than to pay for the individual DVDs in the old packaging. 4. Gamestores. Similar to the secondhand bookstore option. There's a lot of crossover between anime fans and console gamers (no surprise given where most of the consoles come from), and often gamestores that carry secondhand games will also carry DVDs. Pricing seems to be a bit less than that at the bookstores. 5. Media stores. Two ways to watch low cost anime here - secondhand stock (see 3 and 4 above), and anime parties. I know Media Play sponsors a party once a month, where they show anime and give away various swag sent by anime publishers. If you can afford new anime (and if you watch close, you can often find retail sales on new product) you can often cheapen those purchases through frequent buyer programs. 6. Rental Services. I use Rent Anime, though there are others. It works like NetFlix - pay $20/month, and get three anime titles from a list you maintain with the service. If you really like the show, you can usually purchase the disk at half MSRP (a bit expensive for used, since you aren't getting inserts or case, but then again, you like the show and it's in your hand NOW). 7. Online stores. Both Right Stuf and Robert's Corner Anime Store run pretty good specials. Of the two, Robert's tend to have the best everyday pricing, and Right Stuf seems to have the best sales (especially the Bargain Bin and Weekly Specials section). 8. Publishers. Yes, this sort of qualifies as an "online store", but it's something people tend to forget about. ADV not only runs a daily sale special, but usually they have great pricing on various holidays (like U.S. Independance Day and U.S. Labor Day). "I can't afford it, so I have to download" just doesn't cut it. Fansubs of U.S. licensed anime may be faster and more convenient in some respects, but if you can't spend a lot and still want to watch anime, there's plenty of legal ways to do it. |
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ACDragonMaster
Posts: 405 |
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So... on a discussion thread relating to a particular article, you're saying it's NOT fitting to discuss/debate the contents of that aforementioned article? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that was the entire point of being able to discuss the articles. And you know what? No one has to read it. If it bothers you to sit through a heated discussion, then don't. There's other threads and discussions that aren't in the middle of a debate.
I never said that I was ready to handle it. I merely pointed out that there is no point whatsoever in trying to bring in a "bigger issue" while people are still stuck on a small one. Because obviously if they can't handle the small one, they sure can't handle the big one.
Manipulate me? Hardly. Manipulate the discussion? Sure. You just said so yourself, you're trying to "point out" something for the purposes of stopping the debating. But what's wrong with debate? It's an intellectual exercise, and while yes, some people do take it too far, that can't be helped and is a risk that will be encountered in anything. Let people have their debate if they want it. It opens up a topic for discussion, it makes other viewpoints available, and generally is an intellectual exercise. I've been through flame wars, and this has been quite civil conversation here, considering. There is no point, purpose, no reason, to intefere with that. Not to mention, the whole scare tactic of bringing in "big world issue x" is overdone and, quite frankly, asinine. Are there big problems that need to be addressed? Heck yes. Do they need to be brought up everywhere? By all means, no. That discussion has its own time and place that best suits it. Oh, and by the way? I only call people on manipulation if it's on other people or a more general thing, like a discussion. If I thought someone were trying to manipulate me, I'd say nothing and play them at their own game. |
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GTC
Posts: 9 |
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I am not saying it is not theft, I am just saying that everyone is using an inaccurate anology saying stealing a physical thing is the same. That is a better analogy though. |
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jubeininja69
Posts: 3 |
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I watch fansubs but I also buy the actual series too depending on my budget but i usually try to complete the series. (The completed series looks so nice in my room) All in all not all people who watchs fansubs are evil. There's actually people who watches fansubs and buy the real thing to support the industry back so please don't hate on us.
 We're just anime fans. 
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Bahamut God
 Posts: 113 |
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Hmm, this whole thread begs one question.
When are we going to see the second season of Berserk? 
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Lady Multi
Posts: 675 |
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why don't you ask the company instead of repeating a question to people who dont know or don't care? Maybe the company will tortue you and wait 10 years since you're so impatient. I'm gonna have to wait till spring for Tsubasa Chronicles so you can wait patiently for yours, too. Heck, I waited 7 years for a Final Fantasy VII sequel... If I can wait quietly for my favs, so can you. |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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I think you overlooked the fact that the question was a joke. A joke representative of the exact same question that has been posed to Zac and Rebecca many times in the past, and will be many times in the future. |
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Js2756
Posts: 10 |
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Actually, no. In the legal definition of the word, "stealing", it is not stealing, it is copyright enfringement. Semantically different, but making a copy of copyrighted material is not legally stealing as the owner of the original material is not physically deprived of it. Also, depending on where you live in the world, and for what purpose the copy is being used for, it may or may not be legal. |
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Jerseymilk
 Posts: 157 Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know. |
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First of all, nice job in showing that his joke totally went over you head. Secondly, you complain about Answerman's rude conduct then you turn around and act just as obnoxious and disrespectful, moreso since your post comes off as extremely immature. I mean that aggressive and uncalled for response doesn't do much to put you in a good light or help make people sympathetic to your views does it? Lastly, you're whining about having to wait until spring for Tsubasa Chronicle? That series is still brand new in Japan and you're lucky enough to be getting it here fairly soon. Trust me, go back to the days when it took a good three years or more for a series to be released over here. Nowadays series are being released all the time, frequently within the same year as it's Japanese broadcast. This is what I'm talking about with so many fans. Nothing but spoiled, self-absorbed babies. |
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Ataru
 Posts: 2306 Location: Missouri (Strikeman) |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Firstly, there is no "legal" definition of the word stealing. There is, however, a legal definition of the word theft, which is another word for steal(ing). In the US and many other countries, infringment of copyrights for purposes of reproduction and/or distribution, among other things, is Intellectual Property Theft (see No Electronic Theft Act). In fact, USDoJ Bureau of Justice Statistics, keeps stats on IP Theft.
Actually it is stealing. That's what IP laws are all about. Although you can purchase a DVD or what have you, the actual programming on it does NOT belong to you, it remains the property of the copyright holder, who retains control over specific rights of the work. You are allowed certain rights, by way of de facto licensing, which is what you essentially are purchasing along with a DVD. The license grants you the limited rights you are allowed under the law.
That's true. In the US, if you were to reproduce a copyrighted work without permission of the copyright holder, you are excersing a right not granted to you by the owner. This is stealing. steal v. stole, (stl) sto·len, (stln) steal·ing, steals v. tr. 1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission. prop·er·ty n. pl. prop·er·ties 3. Something tangible or intangible to which its owner has legal title: properties such as copyrights and trademarks. In France, for instance, it might be legal and therefore not stealing. However, in most cases, even in countries where it has been found to be legal in certain circumstances, it's not cut and dry whether it's legal or not before you actually do it. It's not like speed limits, where if you go over it, it's always speeding, although you may not be punished for it, for certain reasons. IP cases usually end up in court. The results of the rulings do not always conform to each other, even in similar circumstances. |
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Case
Posts: 1016 |
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Can we please keep the forum squabbles in the forums? It's not news, and it shouldn't be posted as news.
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