Forum - View topicNEWS: Cartoon Network Less Cartoony
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Won't somebody think of the children?! "B-I-T-C-H" has been in primetime since the mid-90's. |
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MeggieMay
 Posts: 607 |
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No they're not subjective but do you really know the facts??? First, you picked the wrong person to go after here. As someone who's followed the TV ratings since I was a small child in the 1970s (I use to track the ratings via Rona Barrett on Good Morning America, before I went off to school), I actually have an idea about what I'm saying and it's backed up by what I've read on places ranging from Media Week to Yahoo Entertainment Industry News. Following ratings is a hobby and one I do my best to be as informed on it as I can be. So the fact is that I am not someone who's done zero research on the subject just because I have read items that support my viewpoint. BTW, there are no "expensive degrees" for becoming a TV executive. Most TV exectutives have degrees but they aren't in TV. Instead most TV exec's have their degrees in Finance (MBAs) or Law or another business related degree. Some may have second degress in broadcasting but most don't. People who get broadcasting degrees tend to go into the daily running of news and/or the entertainment busienss while TV Exectuives are business people who have worked their way up the corporate ladders via the big companies that own and operate all US studios and TV (cable and broadcast) networks. So those who program TV are no more qualified than you or I to be doing it from a taste level, though they are much better qualified (at least compared to me) from a big corporation/business level to be in charge of a Network. Next, the channels you've mentioned do not consider their ratings to be excellent, whether they are or not. They have been reported as saying that one reason they are changing programming to a more diverse set up, compared to cables original strategy of going with specialized channels, is to get more viewers to watch their respective channels and raise their ratings. So what I was saying is a fact - maybe not logical to you or I, but is the facts as reported by those who program TV in the US, because that is what they have been telling reporters who cover the issues as to why they are doing what they are doing. As for Broadcast TV ratings - those are down and that is also a fact. If the downward trend they've been on since the 1980's had slowed or reversed I'm pretty sure I'd have read about or heard it on the news as one of the top stories  .
The market for broadcast (which is over the air local stations, compared to cable) has been shrinking since the late 1980s. It is one reason NBC bought Universal and with it Bravo, SciFi, and the USA Network. The buy allowed them to have direct access to producing their own shows and to having them in the more lucrative cable market via stations they now control. The new setup gives NBC a second run market where they don't have to split syndication rights with a middle person and allows them to make more money than they could have without being in cable. Now, back to the ratings numbers - even though ratings numbers on the whole are larger than they use to be, that doesn't mean the ratings are getting better for the individual channels. Actually, when household numbers (the general pool of those watching) go up, the ratings get lower. Also, there is a issue of cable networks and the cable providers and what channels are on what tiers and/or are actually being shown in what markets. Anyway, when all is said, very few people really knows how well things are going in the ratings without full access to all ratings and very few people have that. Nielsen's is very strict on how much ratings information can be published in the general media, so unless you have full access via working in the press, or the money to subscribe to the ratings privately, you don't have access to everything you need to know (and even then, you need to know how to interpret them). So I am openly worried that Cartoon Network may go the way of stations SciFi, who have said they have been changing their programing away from their "nitch" audiences to gain more ratings. I never said what these stations have done is wrong, because to the bottom money line, it isn't. However, their making more money doesn't make me happy with it because I can see what this turn of events is doing to the cable landscape overall from just what choices I have on viewing TV compared to say five years ago. Case in point: SciFi and Bravo may have better ratings now but I'm watching them less because the less focused programming just doesn't interesting me (I'll leave MTV out because obviously that is a hot button issue with you and one that isn't so hot with me because my provider didn't carry it for 15 years due to some cable issues in my area that aren't worth ranting on here). So lets bring this discussion back to anime. The cold hard facts is that Anime is not a big ratings draw (and is nitch programing, just like SFTV is) and with cable providers and cable networks becoming more diverse and slaves to ratings, the places for it are going to shrink. As it is, most local stations have dumped the animated shows (both domestic and from other places) in the last few years from there afternoon line-ups for more sitcom reruns and talk show because the latter shows pull in better ratings than shows aimed at children. So if CN does well brining in live action movies, don't be surprised if the lineup starts to shrink with the animated fare, because they are interested in cold hard cash which comes from the ad rates set by the ratings and nime in particular doesn't do as well as other things in the ratings on CN. Because while the AS Anime is doing well to OK it isn't doing as well as AS Comedy or some of the weekday, prime time, ratings CN gets. As for cable exec's being moron - that was a strong word to use to describe them but having followed TV exec's in general for the last 30 years or so I don't think that much of many of their past decisions. However, I applogies if I hurt any of their feelings - though I really doubt most TV execs really care about the viewing public any farther than their ad dollars might make their networks more profit (and some network exec's probably don't care about that even)  .
:sigh: Going back and reading what you quoted, I can see that you may have thought what I was saying was just rhetoric. What I said was pretty distilled from what I was thinking as a whole but the thread as it was at the time I posted my reply didn't seem to warrent my going into deep explainations of why I felt the way I felt. I'm still worried about the future of anime on US cable, though, and I still feel this turn of events at CN isn't in the best interest of the shows I like. [s]PS: This is OT but I can't figure another way to send you a message. Did you get that PM I sent you the other day or not (it wasn't about this but about a news item). The reason I'm asking here is that I'm getting the feeling the PM isn't working, at least for me, and if it isn't working there isn't anyway to find out other than to ask a person I've PM'ed if it is working or not  .[/s] Ok, the more I think about this the more I have a bad feeling it might not have been you I PM'd, so just skip it  .
Last edited by MeggieMay on Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RezSav
 Posts: 542 |
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Yes it has but on a network thats intendid for children? Anyways I could care less the kids hear worse in school. |
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XtremeAnimeDan
Posts: 127 Location: Texas |
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Honey I Shrunk The Kids, not Honey We Shrunk Ourselves is the actual movie CN will be airing this month (on Nov. 27th). It does have some computer animation as the ant & scorpion fight each other, but from what I understand CN is going to be showing movies that have a cartoonish feel to them, at least that's how they get away with The Goonies airing. They aquired 5 movies from their sister networks (TBS & TNT) to air this month. 4 of them will air Sunday's at 7 PM, and the 5th will air on Toonami November 19th. Here's their movie agenda:
November 6- Who Framed Roger Rabbit November 13- Small Soldiers November 19 (airs on Toonami at 7 PM)- Tim Burton's Batman November 20- The Goonies November 27- Honey. I Shrunk The Kids |
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Starwind Amada
Posts: 981 Location: Easton, PA, USA |
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Roger Rabbit isn't exactly an "adult" movie, but it does have some material not suitable for children, such as: 1) Alchohol consumption. 2) Light profanity 3) Smoking 4) Extreme violence (like when Maroon gets shot in the back) 5) Sexual humor (like when Roger hides in Eddie's pants and Dolores says "Is that a rabbit in your pants or are you just happy to see me?") 6) Jessica Rabbit. Yeah, that one should be obvious. And FYI, the movie had a warning disclaimer at the beginning, as well as a rating of TV-PG DLV (Dialogue/Language/Violence). And it wasn't aired on Adult Swim, it was during Cartoon Theater, which is general CN. IF 4KIDS GOT ROGER RABBIT 1) Jessica Rabbit would become flat-chested. 2) Betty Boop would appear in color. 3) Baby Herman would be eating a lollipop. 4) All guns would be pop-guns. 5) Instead of killing the toons, Judge Doom would just move them to... I don't know, an Indian reserve or something.
6) Eddie would drink soda all the time. 7) Dolores would work at a "family diner" instead of a bar. 8) Eddie's brother wouldn't have been killed by a toon; he would just "be taken captive". 9) Instead of dip, Judge Doom would torture them with water because "they can't swim". 10) Somehow, they'd find a reason to edit the scene where Acme and Jessica play Pattycake. Yeah, they're LITERALLY playing the game, but you know Al Khan n' Co. would somehow edit it. You know, I think that with CN showing this and DBZ Uncut and FOX showing last night's episode of Family Guy, it's safe to say that TV hates and is beginning to ignore the FCC. |
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v1cious
 Posts: 6203 Location: Houston, TX |
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they're showing the first Batman on Toonami next saturday, i love this movie and all, but JESUS CHRIST!
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Starwind Amada
Posts: 981 Location: Easton, PA, USA |
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Geez, it's like... OMFGTV14ONCARTOONNETWORKOMGHESAIDDAMNLOLMYMOMWILLSUETHEM11111 |
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Abarenbo Shogun
 Posts: 1573 |
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Let us not forget the gratuitous panty shot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jessica_Rabbit_crotch.jpg |
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TheVileOne
Posts: 272 Location: Texas |
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Its hilarious how everyone is overreacting and blowing this out of proportion.
Is Batman not a cartoon character? Who Framed Roger Rabbit is more than appropriate for Cartoon Network seeing as to how its about cartoon characters. Small Soldiers has CG computer animated characters in it. Honey I Shrunk The Kids? I dunno, but big deal. Cartoon Network is still primarily cartoons, so why are you all throwing a hissy fit about it? They showed a few live action movies that were appropriate and were experimenting? What's the big f'n deal? What about the great new cartoon shows they've debuted recently? Foster's? IGPX? New anime on Adult Swim and Toonami like Naruto and Stand Alone Complex. |
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Abarenbo Shogun
Posts: 1573 |
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Methinks someone hasn't seen the transition of MTV from Music Videos to rehashes of The Real World/Road Rules. I remember a time where I could see Music Videos regardless of what time it was. Now it's either some stupid Road Rules/Real World marathon/rehash or Asston Koochie punking some lame-ass celebrity I never heard of. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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When he's animated, yes. But I doubt Michael Keaton would appreciate it much if you walked up to him and called him a two-dimensional drawing reproduced several hundred times in rapid pace to simulate a living being.
Computer animation as a special effect trying to simulate life, not computer animation in the "cartoon" sense. There's a difference between something like Shrek or The Incredibles, and something like Jumanji or Small Soldiers where CG is only used as an effect to simulate live action in a live-action setting. If the use of computer special effects are acceptable criteria for something to run on Cartoon Network, why don't we just throw Jurassic Park and The Lord of the Rings on there, too? And we could always use another outlet for CSI and Stargate SG-1 reruns; they both use quite a bit of CG special effects work (or, given the target audience, Sabrina the Teenage Witch...same thing, effects-wise). Or how about some generic romance-comedy just because computer special effects were used to spruce up the cityscapes in the background?
My theory on this one is that they picked it solely for the five-minute sequence where the ant and the scorpion were animated in stop-motion. Lame, but it's the only justification I can come up with (and it's a lame situation, regardless).
Because some people don't appreciate it when a network continues to claim it serves one purpose while blatantly leaning towards another. MTV still calling itself "Music Television" while basically being a trumped up Teen Beat nowadays, for example. Comparatively, yes, a handful of live-action movies is a small deal at the moment, BUT it could very well be a sign that Cartoon Network is pulling a similar stunt in the long run, moving from being a cartoon network to just being another general children's channel, all the while still continuing to falsely claim it's the former. People are "pitching a hissy fit" right now, at the first possible sign of such a thing, as a means of showing the network that a format change will not be tolerated by a large portion of its viewers. If enough people vocally object now, the Cartoon Network folks might reconsider. If people keep silent and complacently "deal with it" like you seem to want, then the network might think this is what people expect of them and expand upon their non-cartoon programming (at which case, raising an issue would be too little, too late). If the customer doesn't appreciate the quality of the product given to them, they have the right to take issue and expect something better, or in this case something closer to what is advertised. They do not have to blindly accept whatever's handed to them, regardless of how crappy or misleading it may be. |
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TheVileOne
Posts: 272 Location: Texas |
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Cartoon: car·toon ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kär-tn) n. A drawing depicting a humorous situation, often accompanied by a caption. A drawing representing current public figures or issues symbolically and often satirically: a political cartoon. A preliminary sketch similar in size to the work, such as a fresco, that is to be copied from it. An animated cartoon. A comic strip. Batman is based on what is essentially a CARTOON character. So I see nothing wrong with showing the live action version on Cartoon Network. I doubt Michael Keaton would care. He recently got upstaged by Christian Bale anyway and he said that Bale did a great job.
The action figure characters were CG animated. You can nitpick it all you want, but I don't see what the big deal is.
You forget the movie also had an animated opening credit sequence and prologue.
Its still cartoon network and they haven't shown any live action movies since then. again I don't see the big deal. If the customer doesn't appreciate the quality of the product given to them, they have the right to take issue and expect something better, or in this case something closer to what is advertised. They do not have to blindly accept whatever's handed to them, regardless of how crappy or misleading it may be.[/quote] |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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They showed at LEAST Roger Rabbit again today (saw it while flipping channels). Here's the crux of the problem to some people. If you cut "Adult Swim" for a moment, I'll grant that Cartoon network by and large is a channel devoted to kids programming. HOWEVER, that said, there are people in this country who are fans of animated (and I mean STRICTLY animated, not a "blend") shows and movies and Cartoon Network symbolized a realization that we are a viable audience. The FACT that Cartoon Network has an "Adult Swim" block, the fact that they use footage/characters from REALLY outdated shows that people older than kids will recognize, the FACT that animation fans got "Family Guy" back on the air all pointed to more recognition of this market. (a market which most, if not all anime fans over the age of 15 fall into) Taking all that into consideration, and considering the woeful state US animation (for tv and movies) has been in for DECADES, I think it is a HUGE leap backwards for animation buffs if the one network dedicated to animated programming has decided it's not worth it to stick in that niche. And before you dispute my take on the US animation industry, how long has it been since a US studio has made a "Paranoia Agent" or a "Fullmetal Alchemist" or even an "Inu Yasha" or a "Cowboy Bebop". If they're having problems filling the lineup with "quality" programming, maybe they should (and I realize this isn't easy) MAKE more cartoons, rather than digging for "cartoony" movies. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Since when? They just showed Jumanji last night. |
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TheVileOne
Posts: 272 Location: Texas |
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And what the hell is wrong with ROGER RABBIT on Cartoon Network? That movie is all about cartoons and cartoon networks. There are entire scenes of the movie that are almost completely animated. This is NOT a legitimate argument.
So...what are you so upset about then? I'm confused.
Its called change and experimentation. They are trying to branch out a little bit. And they are still dedicated to animation. So again, I don't see the problem.
Don't talk to me about "Inuyasha" which is a piece of garbage and a complete and utter waste of time of a series. Also, I can't think of ANY US animation studio that's made any serious drama the quality of Cowboy Bebop, Paranoia Agent, or Fullmetal Alchemist in history. But here we go. What about Bruce Timm's Justice League and Justice League Unlimited? That was very successful and has been running on Cartoon Network for quite a while. The DC animation universe has always been remarkably strong and given us good storytelling, and compelling characters. Especially through dark times such as Batman and Robin.
What the heck are great shows ORIGINAL shows like IGPX and Foster's? IGPX is a huge project co-produced by Cartoon Network and Production IG. The folks at Cartoon Network had a huge hand creatively in its development. They've shown animated movies before. I think showing Batman, Roger Rabbit, and Honey I Shrunk the Kids is better than showing crap like Balto 2. |
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