Forum - View topicSteins;Gate (TV).
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Tutururu. Super
Either way, just seen episode 6, and quite frankly, I can't remember most of it. Well, I suppose that's how life works. |
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Petrea Mitchell
Posts: 438 Location: Near Portland, OR |
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Caught up as far as episode 5 now, the hard sf novel it's really bringing to mind at this instant is The Space Eater by Dave Langford, in which it's not possible to make a wormhole bigger than 3" wide. But some people really, really want to transport human beings anyway, and come up with an extremely unpleasant workaround... |
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Petrea Mitchell
Posts: 438 Location: Near Portland, OR |
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Now, some more theorizing. (Thanks to everyone who has helpfully flagged their spoilers with the episode number, so I didn't trip over any from the episode that isn't available free yet. Speaking of information moving between different timelines...)
So after episode 5, there's one big thing I'm wondering about which doesn't seem to have been touched on here yet. If the writers are getting their quantum physics right, spoiler[all the differences in the timeline that Okarin moved to when he sent the message in episode 1 should be causally linked to that message. So what about that message being received a week earlier caused John Titor to not travel back to 2000, or at least to not become an Internet sensation back then? Maybe the events we're seeing now lead to Titor's death, and someone else winds up going back to 2000?] I do think we have a consistent explanation for the gel-bananas at this point. spoiler[Earlier, it was mentioned that they've suffered some kind of massive disruption to every cell. Also, Okarin's message that traveled back in time was split into 3 parts. This means that Denwa Reinji is only able to receive information in packets of a certain size. Even a single cell represents an enormous amount of information.] And about part-time girl, spoiler[I'm completely with batou37 here. It would also explain her comment about "So that's what the current fashions are." when she first turns up.] |
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batou37
 Posts: 455 |
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My supposition about this is that (not episode specific) spoiler[Okarin is either John Titor (he is wont to take pseudonyms), he sent John Titor back from the future, or John Titor knows about Okarin's discovery and the changes it will make and he has to tailor his appearance in Okarin's life accordingly to nudge him in the right direction to bring about a positive outcome. Personally I like option 3. One of the main differences between the two realities is the inclusion of "Catherine" in the Future Gadgets Lab (obviously she wasn't originally as she was in fact killed.) This change led to a change in the future causing John Titor's actions to change.] As of episode 7, spoiler[We now see that Okarin does have the ability to change the past, and that everyone looses their memory of the changed past (because it didn't happen in that reality) but for some reason he retains it. This is explained through the divergence of reality at the time of the change. What hasn't been explained (or maybe it has and I missed it), is, do both possibilities retain existence beyond divergence, or is the "original" wiped and replaced by the new? Like in episode 1 Okarin changed the past and Kurisu no longer died in the reality that we followed, but does the one in which she was killed also go on existing? and if so it seems that Okarin would be doing more than just changing the past, but creating a whole new universe each time and transporting (or maybe inserting would be a better word) himself into it. The way that things are described by John Titor though makes it seem as if he is talking about things branching at the time of divergence, but from my infantile understanding of the Many Worlds Interpretation that the multiverse is made up of a quantum superposition of divergent realities, basically that everything that can happen has already happened in some parallel universe. So in that case Okarin would be doing nothing with time at all, but in actuality moving between different realities. If this was in fact what he was doing it would explain why he alone remembers the way things were before he "changed it", because he is the only one who experienced events like that, as the others are from a differnt reality where those things never happened. ] |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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One theory (I have read this several places, but most recently in Scientific American) is that the universe diverges for each quanta of probability. In other words, for each possible configuration of states of all particles, a separate universe exists. It is a preposterous notion, but supported by math. The number of universes that are created each quantum of time is something like 10^35^35. There is of course no known way to test the theory. Except if you could do what Okabe is doing. There are time lines where he did not do the experiment, where he did, where he did and he did get the right lottery ticket, another where the message did not go through for some reason, and one where he did get the wrong lottery ticket but did not get the Dr. Pepper. And so on. This story got interesting. I wish Okabe would stop abusing Makise and start collaborating with her -- she has the brains he doesn't and could possibly figure out what he needs to do. And I also wonder what Moeka wants the IBN 5100 for. I used to have one. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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When a quantum event is observed, I believe that what is changed is not everyone except the observer, but rather the observer's own quantum state is changed. That is to say, the way they perceive the world is changed and so is the way the world perceives them.
Now to Steins;Gate. Okabe isn't creating a new dimension around each time-change. Rather, each time there's a change he is merely unintentionally hopping over to a new dimension that already has the changes in place, changes that weren't caused by him. This "hopping" is merely his quantum state changing, not his actual self, which may explain why he keeps his memories despite traversing worlds. I've got to hand it to the writers. They are fudging real things (John Titor, CERN, LHC, IBM 5100) just enough to make them work in the story while still keeping the concepts intact. I like it. I just hope the story kind of moves somewhere, they've done more than enough setup. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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I'll second this. It has a sort of quirky sense of authenticity. I was a bit turned off by the Okabe character. He seemed like a sort of knockoff of the Ghostbuster character played by Bill Murray. In other words a complete academic phony/huckster whose only real asset is a slightly greater social adeptness when compared to his technically competent friends. Those friends seem content to do the real work while he bones Sigourney Weaver. Yet it seems he is beginning to develop some more depth than that. Once in a while he becomes thoughtful or concerned rather than just blustery. No doubt Makise is going to fall for him, if she hasn't already. |
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Petrea Mitchell
Posts: 438 Location: Near Portland, OR |
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Yeah, it looks to me like an absolutely textbook case of this. |
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Eivion
Posts: 569 |
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I'm not sure how you got this from him. Its like the almost the complete opposite. He clearly knows his stuff, but not on the same level as a genius like Makise which clearly pisses him off somewhat while he also is pretty clearly not too socially adapt. The people he gets along with the most are all fairly weird types aside from Makise. He is a little more socially adapt than Daru and Mayuri, but that is about it. |
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Nosferatu21
 Posts: 520 Location: Ohio |
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Has Okarin ever told part-time warrior about John Titor or are we supposed to infer that she just heard him mention the name one day through the open window? I thought the bit about spoiler[brainwashing was pretty interesting. Apparently someone in the future(most likely SERN) has invented a way to brainwash people by putting a chip into their eyes.]
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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I found it interesting as well. Okarin did not look surprised when the part-timer jumped on him and stared into his eyes, like if this sort of things happened to him every day 
The pace picks up a bit! I also found it interesting how Okabe and co finally spoiler[failed to win on the lottery despite knowing the numbers,] so he was unable to completely manipulate the past like he wanted. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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Actually I thought that even though that accident happened, the outcome was satisfactory to them. What they wanted was proof, and note spoiler[how he wisely shied away from going after to top lottery prize since it would have been too visible. No doubt he would have liked to have easy money, but it was clearly more important to him to have proof that the message from the future arrived, and the experiment gave the proof.] |
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Petrea Mitchell
Posts: 438 Location: Near Portland, OR |
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I'd go further than that and say that he seems to be capable just as socially ept as he wants to be when he feels like it. The condition he places on it is that the other person has to accept his version of reality where his mad, evil scientific genius has made him important enough to be enmeshed in international conspiracies. And the root of his constant bickering with Kurisu is that she doesn't accept him as the alpha geek, and for perfectly justifiable reasons. (Though things do seem to be drifting closer and closer to Okarin's version of the world, don't they?) |
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Petrea Mitchell
Posts: 438 Location: Near Portland, OR |
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So after letting episode 6 percolate for a few days, I've gone back and watched the opener, despite the obvious danger of being subjected to that damn Google Offers ad over and over and over YET AGAIN AAAAUGH.
But I digress. There are a lot of possible explanations, so here they all are-- take your pick! 1. The episode is called "Prologue to the Beginning and End". This means: (a) We're seeing parts of what will happen at the end of the series (b) We're seeing an alternate version of what things might have led to, which will be explained but avoided at the end of the series (c) We're seeing parts of what will happen *almost* at the end, which will be followed by one final timeline change, allowing everything to be reset so that Okarin can find the best path through it, a la Groundhog Day 2. Why does Kurisu think Okarin was trying to tell her something 15 minutes before they first met? (a) She's just inadvertently switched in from a different world line (b) That was Okarin from the future (c) Somone impersonated him 3. What was he trying to tell her? (a) "Don't go up there, there's a maniac with a knife!" (b) "I love you and regret that I cannot interfere with what is about to happen." (c) "Die, evil villainess!" 4. Who stabbed Kurisu? (a) Okarin, having realized she really is his enemy (b) Suzuha from this timeline, because Okarin wasn't able to or didn't intervene (c) Moeka, because there has to be some reason she's in this story (d) Professor Tanabachi (e) John Titor (f) She wasn't stabbed, she was fatally wounded by some kind of accident 5. That scream sounded like a guy, didn't it? Who was it, then? (a) Okarin (b) Professor Tanabachi (c) Daru (d) Actually it was Kurisu, and her voice was distorted by some weird phenomenon that was going on 6. Why did he scream? (a) Some critical and heartbreaking piece of information was just revealed (b) Injured by her assailant (or the accident, if you think she wasn't stabbed) (c) Injured by Kurisu, because he *is* the assailant (d) Seeing her killed (e) No, seriously, I think it was Kurisu screaming 7. How and why did the satellite wind up there? (a) Crashed accidentally due to side effects from people or messages time-travelling (b) It's a time machine, and didn't land so neatly in this timeline (c) Deorbited by SERN to kill Professor Tanabachi (d) Deorbited by SERN to kill Okarin 8. Who warned Professor Tanabachi to cancel his conference? (a) Okarin (b) Kurisu (c) Suzuha (d) Moeka (e) Ruka (f) No one; he figured out it was dangerous on his own 9. What happened to the metal Upa? (a) Picked up by alternate/future Mayushii (b) Picked up by alternate/future Okarin to give to Mayushii (c) Picked up by an agent of SERN, to use as bait in a cunningly constructed trap (d) Left of its own accord to join the secret gathering of other metal Upas who are THE WORLD'S TRUE MASTERS Bonus essay questions:
What did that gesture mean when he went up there later? What's going on in that brief flash of Mayushii standing in front of some kind of grave or monument? Why did Okarin get a message that was all staticky? Why is Daru hardly in the opening credit sequence? Why is Kurisu the only one in the closing credit sequence? WTF is El Psy Congroo, anyway? Now to place my bets for the moment... spoiler[ 1. I'm really sure it's not (b), so (c), for wish-fulfillment. Kurisu is my favorite character right now, so I'd really like to see an ending where she is alive and happy and the person responsible for Google Offers gets stabbed to death instead. 2. (b). Possibly (a) as well. 3. (b), because I think the writers want to crank up the angst. 4. (b), because I don't think they want to crank it up quite as far as (a). BTW, you noticed that when Okarin meets Kurisu for the first time from his point of view, the last thing he says to her is that the next time they meet, they will be enemies? 5. (a). Sounded like his voice to me. 6. Both (a) and (d). 7. (c), marking possibly the least subtle assassination attempt I've ever seen in fiction, but understandable with the constraints SERN was working under. They couldn't count on being able to send a human agent, so they put something in the satellite that could receive messages from the future and allow them to tell it to crash at any specified coordinates. 8. I'd like to give the man some credit and let it be (f), but he's probably just a puppet of the main characters' storyline, so (d). Or (c). 9. (b). Bonus: I've only got a firm idea on the first one, which is that we're seeing a future Okarin and Mayushii who have come back in time to intervene. I haven't decided whether I think killing Kurisu was part of the plan. As for who he was talking to... himself again? Looks like the same phone that we see later. Dunno. ] |
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Mister V
 Posts: 1000 |
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The overacting's getting to me a little (when are they going to get serious about it all...). Otherwise it's still moving slowly, but at least it's enjoyable, unlike other recent long Noitamina series I won't point fingers at.
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