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ANNCast - Operation Podcast Drop


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vapwaazu



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:25 pm Reply with quote
The Super Robot Chogokin for GaoGaiGar is due for August, should be up for preorder since I've preordered mine at Amiami already Smile
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:26 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:

Trust me it's not that exciting


Oh yeah? Well you're not exciting at all!
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Leuconoe



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 83
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:29 pm Reply with quote
The best thing about SOS is that it's all sourced quotation of things people have publicly written, with highlighting but without commentary. If it didn't have links, or did have commentary, it would lose its charm.
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Ashura Danshaku



Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:33 pm Reply with quote
As an occasional Colony Drop contributor (my name is Ben on CD, full disclosure to avoid any sockpuppetry scandal), I feel compelled to advocate for spacenoid virtue in the face of this unwarranted Federation slander.

In plain English, what I'd like to say is that we really are a nice bunch if you get to know us. IRC is easier to use than ever before!

(That's not just smarmy sarcasm. Many of us ARE, in fact, much nicer and more eloquent in actual conversation, with YOU, than we may seem in a dumb little podcast. Yes, even Sean.)

First of all, the "Japtoon" thing. People read way too much into the self-flagellating angle "WE HATES ANIME BECAUSE WE HATES OURSELVES" on this, when really we just use it because it makes oversensitive people mad. Is that trolling? Well, duh. But we're not just doing it to get a rise out of you, we're doing it because HOPEFULLY you will see some aspect of the humor that we do in it.

Like any great ethnic slur, there's a lot of history in "Japtoon" attached to its venom. Too many kids coming into anime today forget, in this age of Internet milk and honey where Best Buy stocks anime (that's a joke in itself) and your little brother watches Naruto on TV, that just a little over a decade ago, your beloved anime was not only unknown, but reviled as the stuff of Satan. Such ignorant labels as "Japanese rape cartoons" were the slings and arrows you had to deal with to get into anime Back in the Day.

I cannot speak for all of Colony Drop, but I view the "Japtoon" thing less as a cheap shot at anime, and more of a nod with a grim smile to those who went through "the struggle", as we say in hip-hop, to get where we are today. Kids these days have a sort of retarded (in the impaired sense, not in the cheap shot "you're a retard" sense) sense of history about the subculture, and we do what we can to snap people out of their reverie and start thinking critically about where their subculture came from.

The moral of that little story is that too many people scream out shrilly "OMG TROLL IGNORE" without making the distinction that certain forms of trolling, like ours, can actually have a productive intent (if not always a productive result...we have missed the mark occasionally). We're here to get you to lighten up and have a laugh about whatever sacred cows you may hold.

Ten years ago you would have been considered a pervert and/or child molester for watching this stuff (whether or not it had pervert/child-molester-friendly content) , and these days your little cousins are watching it on friggin' Toon Disney. Surely that doesn't add at least a LITTLE humor to the legacy of the term "Japtoon"?

This is especially important given how kids enter anime NOW versus how they did Back in My Day. Moreso than ever, it seems to us like (English-speaking) anime fandom is based less on critical appreciation of the shows being produced, and more about integrating oneself into the orthodoxy of the subculture. This, to me, is the root of a lot of our problems with fansub translations (which, like "Japtoons", is a point we stand firm on).

Doe-eyed nerdy kids watch some Naruto on their friend's laptop, are told the basic places to go on the Internet to find more, and are immediately indoctrinated into the false history of rape-by-localization, and the fallacy that the only valid translation is the most literal, because how else could something be compelling?

How can you can be a legitimate otaku without going as deep down the rabbit hole as you can? (Never mind that the rabbit hole is actually full of misanthropic snakes.)

How would you know if what you watched was compelling unless we told you?

Are you really that unable to read between the lines and think for yourself? (The extra-cynical Colony Drop rejoinder to that statement would be "Of course you are. You're watching anime, after all.")

Anime, we maintain, is on the whole pretty dumb. Not just intellectually, but thematically and culturally/subculturally. But as long as you're willing to admit when a thing you love is dumb, there's no shame in loving it anyway. Shit, none of us are ever going to pretend that BAOH and M.D. Geist are secretly a sophisticated satirical commentary on the pressing social issues of their time. But we still love them for what they are, animated labors of love. You don't get a lot of those in anime these days.

If you skipped every paragraph but this last one to see if I had a point, this is it: WATCH REDLINE. I may as well get SOMETHING out of this. (To those who actually read the whole thing...thank you. That's all we asked!)

P.S. I may actually re-edit this post into a more comprehensive and more legible piece for the CD front page in the near future. Hopefully this will clear up any philosophical points it may have muddied for you, the ignorant ma--er, the general public.

P.P.S. Watch Redline.
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Cheesecracker



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 240
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:54 pm Reply with quote
SoandSo wrote:
Trolling equals dissent. Rude equals not nice.

Christ, some of you commenters.


Am I the only one thinks this is way off target. When trolling acquires some kind of honor-ability or legitimacy in it's meaning, the word has then mutated it's head up it's own butt and needs to get sorted out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

From the Wiki:
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

People can be mislabeled as trolls but the meaning needs to stay clear. For as long as I've been on the net the meaning has been the same as that above. Nothing more than troublemakers out for their own amusement.

I suppose being an A&&-Hole now means you are kind and compassionate.

If you want what you call what you do to have a positive meaning, don't call it trolling.


Last edited by Cheesecracker on Fri May 06, 2011 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Spark That Bled



Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Worcester, UK
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:14 pm Reply with quote
Because I don't want to have readers sort through this entire mountain of text, I'm going to break this up piece by piece, and cross-examine all of your points Phoenix Wright style. I fell that this would be better for all of us in the long run.

Ashura Danshaku wrote:
First of all, the "Japtoon" thing. People read way too much into the self-flagellating angle "WE HATES ANIME BECAUSE WE HATES OURSELVES" on this, when really we just use it because it makes oversensitive people mad. Is that trolling? Well, duh. But we're not just doing it to get a rise out of you, we're doing it because HOPEFULLY you will see some aspect of the humor that we do in it.


Maybe this is just personal opinion, but I don't see the humour in deliberately using an ethnic slur to get a rise out of people. Just saying.

Unless you think that you are truly making some kind of message of political import in using that word, you can go take that ethnic slur and do something remarkably obscene with it.

Quote:
I cannot speak for all of Colony Drop, but I view the "Japtoon" thing less as a cheap shot at anime, and more of a nod with a grim smile to those who went through "the struggle", as we say in hip-hop, to get where we are today. Kids these days have a sort of retarded (in the impaired sense, not in the cheap shot "you're a retard" sense) sense of history about the subculture, and we do what we can to snap people out of their reverie and start thinking critically about where their subculture came from.


Isn't that a good thing, though, that we've left behind the dark history of anime behind? Listen mate, nowadays, if we want anime history, we can download it off the torrent sites or watch it on Crunchyroll, or buy it from Amazon. Myself, I am glad that we don't have to deal with thirteen-generation copies on VHS of two episodes of Nurse Angel Ririka SOS, or have to seek out a four-head VCR to watch Yamato without everyone turning into the Flash.

Kids these days might be ignorant of anime and anime fandom, but I believe they can easily be able to enjoy old anime as much as we do, with the proper guidance. Maybe I've just been listening too much to the AWO episode with Walter Amos and Rob Fenelon, but I believe that anime fans can be more appreciative of anime history. "Japtoons" is just the wrong way to do it.


Quote:
The moral of that little story is that too many people scream out shrilly "OMG TROLL IGNORE" without making the distinction that certain forms of trolling, like ours, can actually have a productive intent (if not always a productive result...we have missed the mark occasionally). We're here to get you to lighten up and have a laugh about whatever sacred cows you may hold.


I might as well say right now that I've never found any of Colony Drop's rants or diatribes funny. I just found them sad, moronic, or desperate. You might say that you want to make fans lighten up about their medium, but this is the wrong way to do it.

Quote:
Doe-eyed nerdy kids watch some Naruto on their friend's laptop, are told the basic places to go on the Internet to find more, and are immediately indoctrinated into the false history of rape-by-localization, and the fallacy that the only valid translation is the most literal, because how else could something be compelling?

How can you can be a legitimate otaku without going as deep down the rabbit hole as you can? (Never mind that the rabbit hole is actually full of misanthropic snakes.)

How would you know if what you watched was compelling unless we told you?


Well, I had Manga Max, Helen McCarthy, fanboys.org and the occasional issue of Animerica to help me decide for myself...

On another note, some of those old localisations are indeed painful, if you really look back on them. Remember what happened to Sailor Moon? And DBZ? And Card Captor Sakura? Whatever ability that those specific localisations had in bringing anime to the mainstream doesn't make them anything more as curios from another time period.

Quote:
Are you really that unable to read between the lines and think for yourself? (The extra-cynical Colony Drop rejoinder to that statement would be "Of course you are. You're watching anime, after all.")


Sometimes I think this paragraph here says more about Colony Drop and it's critical position than anything else you could possibly say on the matter.

Quote:
Anime, we maintain, is on the whole pretty dumb. Not just intellectually, but thematically and culturally/subculturally. But as long as you're willing to admit when a thing you love is dumb, there's no shame in loving it anyway. Shit, none of us are ever going to pretend that BAOH and M.D. Geist are secretly a sophisticated satirical commentary on the pressing social issues of their time. But we still love them for what they are, animated labors of love. You don't get a lot of those in anime these days.


I don't get this... Are you saying that anime is pretty dumb as opposed to other mediums, like comics, film, or video games? Are you saying that any anime can't be art? Are we just going to dismiss all of the anime that is intelligent and artistic?

Actually, now that I'm asking this, my BA Film Studies Sense detects that M.D. Geist does have an interesting commentary on the nature of war, the concept of the Perfect Soldier and one hell of a nihilistic streak...

Quote:
If you skipped every paragraph but this last one to see if I had a point, this is it: WATCH REDLINE. I may as well get SOMETHING out of this. (To those who actually read the whole thing...thank you. That's all we asked!)


I remember that article Sean wrote. So little said in so many words and profanities. And that's just the content concerning the film itself...
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Ashura Danshaku



Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:14 pm Reply with quote
Cheesecracker wrote:

People can be mislabeled as trolls but the meaning needs to stay clear.


Fair enough. We're polemicists, then. I just figured we might as well call ourselves trolls, given that that's what we'll always be in most people's eyes, anyway.

Funny that so few people wonder aloud about what we like, while the entire blogosphere races for their partisans whenever we DON'T like something.

Really, we're just hoping that by broadcasting the stuff we have a beef with, you guys will start wondering (well, not so much wondering as READING...our blog has more than one page, you know) about what we DO like -- and from there our malevolent plan to destroy your precious anime unfolds, muahahaha, etc.

We'll never get a chance to make another first impression. But we'll settle for a nice memorable bootprint in your front door.
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davecabrera
ANN Columnist


Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Oh hi, thread. I'm Dave (from Astro Toy and from CD). Your questions and observations are appreciated. We will assemble an even stronger Colony Drop for a brighter and more justice future.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Ashura Danshaku wrote:

We'll never get a chance to make another first impression. But we'll settle for a nice memorable bootprint in your front door.


This is wandering into "trying too hard" territory, man. I like you guys but c'mon now.
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ABCBTom



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 183
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:32 pm Reply with quote
Ashura Danshaku wrote:
We'll never get a chance to make another first impression. But we'll settle for a nice memorable bootprint in your front door.

Or, maybe you could talk about what you like and try and sell it on its own merits.

I really hope your endorsement for Redline does not discourage people from watching it. Because it is a very good, energetic, fun film.
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SoandSo



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:32 pm Reply with quote
"I suppose being an A&&-Hole now means you are kind and compassionate."

I suppose not being as coddling, weak and passive as possible, especially regarding things you vehemently despise and are sick of seeing being the sole representation of what passes for "discourse" in the anime blogosphere(I still can't say that with a straight face) now means you're an asshole.

If it makes you feel any better, they never seem to operate under illusions that they're anything but.
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Ashura Danshaku



Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:38 pm Reply with quote
Spark That Bled wrote:
snip


You made some very good points here, and I would like to address them with a bit more care than usual. I take my role as Colony Drop apologist very seriously and I don't like to half-ass things. I will update this post as I complete more responses.

---------

You'll forgive me if I address your points out of order...I do intend to address all of them, it just takes me a while to organize my thoughts (Internet: "*gasp* He's THINKING!").

Quote:
I remember that article Sean wrote. So little said in so many words and profanities. And that's just the content concerning the film itself...


I will concede Sean's point got more than a little lost in that particular invective. However...Redline REALLY is that awesome, and there are a lot of lessons in there about what it does right that so many other anime, theatrical or no, do wrong. But that's an essay in itself, and I'm sure we'll have a more thorough look at its virtues when the Blu-Ray release comes through.

Quote:
Actually, now that I'm asking this, my BA Film Studies Sense detects that M.D. Geist does have an interesting commentary on the nature of war, the concept of the Perfect Soldier and one hell of a nihilistic streak...


What I was really getting at with M.D. Geist is that, while certainly not Shakespeare, I think it demonstrates a lot of the real creative virtues of the OAV boom that have kind of gotten lost over the years. Director Ohata was younger than many of us (certainly younger than me) when he made the film, but for the amount of ball-busting work that cel animation was back then and his relatively light pool of experience, his crew turned out something that was well-animated, reasonably well-paced (even if there really wasn't much for it to say in 45 minutes) and no dumber than Commando.

This was an age when a college-age guy could say "I want to make a fun dumb cartoon about a badass in shades who murders robots", and it could happen, without needing to appease a particular insular otaku focus group who was their only viable consumer base. Koichi Ohata made the OAV that Koichi Ohata wanted to make, and I respect the hell out of that. So many anime with higher thematic potential than "badass kills robots" manage to fail so hard because they have nothing resembling that creative passion. This is a big part of what Colony Drop tries to convey.

EDIT: I'm going to respond to one of your more important points in a seperate post so that I don't have a gigantic wall of text awaiting you. See next page.


Last edited by Ashura Danshaku on Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cheesecracker



Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 240
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Ashura Danshaku wrote:
As an occasional Colony Drop contributor (my name is Ben on CD, full disclosure to avoid any sockpuppetry scandal),

...we really are a nice bunch if you get to know us. ...

(That's not just smarmy sarcasm. Many of us ARE, in fact, much nicer and more eloquent in actual conversation, with YOU, than we may seem in a dumb little podcast. Yes, even Sean.)
.


I chuckled at this. My first thought was 'ironic, to mention sock-puppets and then describe how you have two sides to your personality, almost like having two faces...which is essentially what you have when one has a puppet.

Are you being seen as who you want to be seen as or are you just not very good at this communication thingy.

Ah, I'm just playing wit cha. Smile

Ashura Danshaku wrote:

P.P.S. Watch Redline.


(I gotta get this off my chest.)

Was it really that good? I didn't like the the art style/character designs(I couldn't help but feel they abducted the spider guy from "Spirited Away") and felt there were too many gaps between action. It was good for a few laughs, but not enough.
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Spark That Bled



Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Worcester, UK
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:50 pm Reply with quote
It is really good. The animation is impressive, the plot is simple but robust enough to support everything that's hanging on it, and the characters are all varied, rounded out and memorable enough to stand out. That's all I can say about it right now.
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Zeguna



Joined: 06 May 2010
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:51 pm Reply with quote
The Colony Drop guys are what I wish all anime fans were like.
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