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NEWS: Mainstream Moe Raises Artist's Ire

"All the world is going around talking about maid cafes and stuff and making these so-called otaku look good. But people must realize that these guys are simply men incapable of recognizing reality and are incapable of being in a normal loving relationship.

I just want to make clear my position on the whole thought police thing. I "do not" want any type of thought police, how ever if you act on these thoughts then I think you should be locked up as it pertains to children. Moe and loli as well as any porn is not bad in it self, its how you "act" in real life that matters in the end.

But if one Japanese friend of mine is right, and the average age for losing one's virginity now in that country is hovering around the 10-years-old mark, something is clearly wrong.

Wow, finally someone has the guts to blast the same weirdos who are their fans. Bigtime-Otakus have gotten out of hand and need a good slap in the face from reality.

Personally, I think it takes a special mental state for a person to commit a sexual crime, and that state of mind doesn't share anything in common with lolicon or pedophilia. Obviously the scenario where a sexual predator appears who happens to be a a massive collector of loli can and probably occurs, but I don't think that loli encourages such a crime, just like mentally unstable people commit crimes while being obsessive of in all kinds of other thing (violent games comes to mind). Most sane, healthy adults are able to make smart intelligent decisions to avoid causing harm to others and society. To ban a category of material because a rare person out there has the potential to cause a crime is against the spirit of todays society, despite how much you may frown on such things.

1. Legally, in the US, the only difference (in terms of possession and distribution) between loli and child porn, is that loli has to fail a SLAPS test. They are both illegal and they are both subject to a mandatory prison sentence.

2. You admit that a preference for loli is the sign unhealthy individual, but then say that healthy individuals know right from wrong and wouldn't attack children. So which is it? It seems that a follows b which follows c... Since our loli fan is an unhealthy individual, their ability to tell right from wrong may be compromised, and they may be a threat to children. Much like if there was no crack, people wouldn't be knocking over liquor stores to feed their crack habit.

3. The objective is to avoid the antics of people like Tsukumo Miyazaki. Miyazaki wanted to act out the scenes he saw in loli, is illegal from the start. Had he been limited to material containing adults only, there is a chance that he would have funneled his ... efforts into acts that are either legal (willing partners), or at the least, less abhorrent (prostitutes).

That would depend alot on the specifics of the content. ... As you say, fail the SLAPS test.

If not all three parts of the miller test are satisfied, then the work is not considered obscene. Again I appologize if this is not how it is actually handled, I'm just going by quick research here.

I did say that it is unhealthy, but perhaps that is a poor choice of words. I would like to clarify that a preference in loli is not exactly unhealthy per se.

As this discussion brings to light though, I don't think that such an interest would be considered socially acceptable or generally well looked upon by the general public. That could be said about materials of many other sexual orientation or preference however, the majority of which are still protected as a freedom in the united states.

Child Porn is one of the few kinds of pornography that IS illegal, for reasons I mentioned earlier.

While the case of Tsutomu Miyazaki is surely a terrible tragedy, it differs from how you describe them. While Miyazaki had a firm interest in manga and had thousands of adult anime and slasher type films, I wasn't able to find any evidence that his collection had any fixation on, or even contained loli videos.

Infact, the material which he modelled his murders on was not anime or loli at all, but based on the grusome japanese horror film series "Guinea Pig". Its said that he re-inacted scenes from those movies as parts of his crimes. A series of psychiatric evaluations also revealed that he suffered from extreme schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder.

Just because his victims happened to be children also doesn't mean that he was a pedophile to begin with, but quite possible that they were chosen simply because they would be the easiest for Miyazaki to abduct for his purposes.

At the time, the media had blamed anime and manga as the cause of his crimes. I doubt it would be hard to make the point here on animenewnetwork that anime and manga would not be the root cause of such a crime. I don't know how different it would be if they found his collection contained loli materials instead of regular and adult anime titles he posessed, but my personal oppinionis that his mental illness and not his hobbies lead to his crimes.

Convincing a jury of 12 citizens that any loli is anymore than filth would be an amazing task. How many art critics do you think are going to stand up for a work considered only a hair better than child porn?

According to the law, if the loli involves sex, it only needs to fail the SLAPS test, the rest of the Miller test applies only if the content is focused nudity or such.

Yup, nothing unhealthy about enjoying watching little children by used as playthings.

I am sure GLAD would agree that their struggle is really the same as NAMBLA's... Something about this conversation is making me want to take a shower.

Yes, by definition it involves violating children, which most people agree is a bad thing. Of course owning it is illegal too, which I am sure is a grave miscarriage of justice, how do we know it wasn't made in a more "enlightened" country?

There is no doubt that Miyazaki was a deranged person who was capable of murder in order to fulfill his twisted fantasies. However, the question I ask is, would he have fixated on children if the child porn and/or loli hadn't been available. Of all the possible outlets for his twisted mind, what could have been done to divert him to anything else. At least adults could have fought back, but he choose children. The moment the US has it's own Tsutomu Miyazaki, loli we be shut down hard, fast, and god help anyone left in the government's path.

Personally, I think it takes a special mental state for a person to commit a sexual crime, and that state of mind doesn't share anything in common with lolicon or pedophilia.

I think this is getting a little off rail here, my initial goal was to defend loli as a legitimate branch of erotic anime. Instead I'm getting cornered into defending the abuse of children, something which is not my intent.

A normal adult should be able to fantasize about pretty well what ever he wants, as long as he knows where the line is at, and does not harm anyone in the process.

I hate to bring up examples in debates because its so easy to argue their relevancy. Anyways, In America you can buy adult anime along the lines of Ail Maniax, which as an example, includes a scene of a woman being impailed by having multiple spikes driven through her body while being raped by a group of men. This kind of thing is legally available. As awful as that may sound, I have a hard time understanding why it would be believed that something like that would be less likely to incite some kind of crime than an adult animation involving loli type characters.

I don't think its in the interest of freedom of speech to ban something and incriminate other innocent people because a person suffering from several severe mental disorders may have used it as inspiration for a crime. On the other hand, you may be right that if a media made a big deal of such a crime that it would likely push the government into action.

But then, last time there was a recent law which had implications to ban loli, it it got shot down, am I not right?

Convincing a jury of 12 citizens that any loli is anymore than filth would be an amazing task.

Yup, nothing unhealthy about enjoying watching little children by used as playthings.

Yes, by definition it involves violating children, which most people agree is a bad thing.

Doddler wrote:

I think this is getting a little off rail here, my initial goal was to defend loli as a legitimate branch of erotic anime. Instead I'm getting cornered into defending the abuse of children, something which is not my intent.

Defending loli is defending fantasizing about abusing children, sorry.

A normal adult should be able to fantasize about pretty well what ever he wants, as long as he knows where the line is at, and does not harm anyone in the process.

Doddler wrote:

I hate to bring up examples in debates because its so easy to argue their relevancy. Anyways, In America you can buy adult anime along the lines of Ail Maniax, which as an example, includes a scene of a woman being impailed by having multiple spikes driven through her body while being raped by a group of men. This kind of thing is legally available. As awful as that may sound, I have a hard time understanding why it would be believed that something like that would be less likely to incite some kind of crime than an adult animation involving loli type characters.

See, I have a hard time imagining a single otaku pulling that off. While I am sure some sicko would love to pull off something like that, the execution is exponentially harder than yanking a kid of the street and running.