Forum - View topicJason Thompson's House of 1000 Manga - Hot Gimmick
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kyokun703
 Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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littlegreenwolf, your link to the discussion you mentioned just brings me back to this thread's OP.
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2612 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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Here it is. It was a very good discussion (though I say it myself and though I started it myself
 ), and I was also reminded of it when I read this column. Jason mentioned A Bride's Story as getting flak, but to be honest, I was more horrified that Ai Ore! made it over here, as the volume ends with spoiler[the hero enlisting his buddy to rape a girl as revenge.]
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Quark
 Posts: 710 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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I just ran and checked, and the warning about underage drinking is in the original manga. It's actually kind of funny when you consider that most teenagers have had alcohol well before the age of 21 (or 19 where I live) As for preggo...and I mean zero disrespect to translators when I say this, because creating a natural translation is not easy, but 'preggo' is one of the reasons (the heavy use of bad slang in Nana was another) why I finally started teaching myself Japanese. Maybe it's because if I was 14 and thought I was pregnant, I wouldn't be using cutesy words like 'preggo', or maybe I'm just a weird purist. Despite the fact that I consider myself to be a feminist, I love Hot Gimmick. Aspects of the story just make me grit me teeth, but it's so trashy I can't help but enjoy reading it. Hatsumi is one of those characters you just want to shake and yell at her "You don't have to pick ANY of these guys! They're all deeply broken! Have some self-respect!" Like others have said, it's the closest thing you can get to a soap-opera, but this has gorgeous art to go along with it. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Thanks Irene, I didn't check the link.
I really don't understand the problem people have with Bride's Story. It's not like they're actually doing IT as far as we can tell - and back in the day apparently getting a child husband was sometimes a blessing compared to getting betrothed to some jerk who was all about the nightly marriage duties. Child brides happened all the time in history. Bride's Story is a historical fiction novel that just takes a look at the less common reversal of it. Heck, two shows this past season featured child brides - The Borgias with Lucretia (13) and Game of Thrones with Dany - though the later they made the actress slightly older and never stated her age as to get past the initial problems people have with it, but in the book she's 13-14. I don't get the problems with Bride's Story. It's a look at everyday life for a Mideastern Tribes woman from long ago whose husband just happens to be a boy. This just means lots of nice platonic scenes in a big sister fashion unless they decide to do a time skip. Then again I love Bride's Story, and I enjoyed Hot Gimmick, so maybe something is wrong with how I think if the majority is having issues with it. ... nah. |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 2612 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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No problem, littlegreen.
I have to agree with you. I think I was pretty clear in my review that the age REALLY isn't an issue, but people get very hyper about these things. (Shameless plug! Yay!)(sorry ) And I suppose that you can't really blame them. But it would be a shame if something like A Bride's Story got more grief than something like Hot Gimmick simply based on the ages of the protagonists. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed Hot Gimmick - I couldn't put it down and it hides on my Shelf of Shame next to my Marsha Canham books, but it is by far more objectionable than anything Kaoru Mori's written. It reminds me a bit of those 18th and 19th century Awful Warning novels, where the girl gets involved with A Very Bad Man and Learns A Lesson. Sure, we don't see it during the series, but what happens later on?
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Sewingrose
 Posts: 579 |
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I guess I can cut in here to explain why I personally don't want to read A Bride's Story, and yes it is all about the age difference. The actual lack of anything physical is not the point, I don't care if in the entire series they only share one chaste kiss (though I very much doubt it), it's still creepy. It's creepy because Amir is so very much a full grown women, physically and psychologically, while Karluk is a child in the same two senses. His relationship with Amir reads so heavily of a motherly that it just makes it all the much worse. I realize at such a time this was normal, and many people where getting married much younger. But there seems to me a tangible difference in lets say a 14-year old marrying a 13-year old, then a 20-year old and a 12-year old. In one case you have two stupid kids going into something they probably aren't really ready for, but they can work through that. On the other you have a child and an adult, and one is so much more mature then the other it puts them at a disadvantage, and that just flat out bothers me. I can't read A Bride's Story because the very heart of it is her marriage to Karluk and we, the audience, are meant from day one to be rooting for their relationship and how they finally get together. That's my personal bias, and I'm sure it's a good story in it's own right, but I have no desire to read it. |
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kyokun703
Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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You are really missing out on a great manga. Marriages were arranged like this, and often times far, far worse (e.g.: 60 year old lords with very unhappy and unwilling 13 year old brides). If this was set in contemporary Japan, then yes, it would be gross and inappropriate, and I wouldn't go near it with a 10 foot pole. However, it's not, it's a different culture, with a group not normally depicted in manga.
I admit I was a bit taken aback at first hearing about the age difference, but decided to roll with it, since I love her work. It's consensual, and neither party seems really too bothered by it, other than Karluk's normal adolescent awkwardness. I would take this any day over Hot Gimmick, where the girl is blackmailed into an abusive relationship, and then stays because she is too weak-willed to break out of it. |
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Sewingrose
Posts: 579 |
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I'm aware of that, but it is a hurtle I'm having a hard time getting over, and one I doubt I ever will. I'm aware the age difference isn't nearly as bad as it could be, it's consensual, and knowing the Mangaka it will be a very heartfelt relationship. I don't have a problem with the story beyond it not being for me. On the subject of Hot Gimmick, you're absolutely right. This is an entirely different kettle of fish, and if I had to choose between the two, I would pick A Bride's Story every time. A Bride's Story bugs me in a way that has entirely to do with my own biases. Hot Gimmick bugs me in a way that has to do with rape culture and incites my inner rage. |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 2612 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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And that's perfectly valid. We all have our buttons - I can't read anything with animal cruelty. My youngest sister can't deal with incest stories, even on the most "harmless" level. What's important is that you don't say that no one else should read it; it's just not for you. Things get scary when people start saying "I don't like it, so no one should read it." |
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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Nah, the most common iteration of this around here is "I don't like it, and you guys are stupid for doing so." or on the flip side: "I love it. You must be an idiot if you don't like it. That's a completely stupid reason, etc,." The latter is more common than the former, I find. 
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kyokun703
Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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Yeah, I think that's my problem. I don't mind getting emotional over my entertainment: laughing, crying, being indignant. But when it makes me downright enraged, then I think all the fun goes out of it. I had to give up BSG for the same reason because one character just made me so angry I would want to throw things at the tv. But yeah, I don't think you're a bad person for not wanting to read Bride's Story, any more than I think all these people who like Hot Gimmick are bad people. I hope I didn't make you feel bad. |
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Sewingrose
Posts: 579 |
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Not remotely. I agree with you guys completely, as I am against censorship and for people reading what ever they want, and if I don't particularly care for what it is, guess what? I'm not reading it, but continue to do so yourself. I think I know what character you're talking about in BSG, made it hard to get through parts of the show for me as well.
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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What, 2nd season of BSG with that evil... captian lady? If that's it, that was horrifying, but it brought up a lot of good issues about rape, and where the line of humanity is. They didn't try making it seem OK and easily shrugged off like Hot Gimmick. That's the only really horrible part about BSG I can remember, but I'm sure there were others.
And Amira is only 8 years older than Karluk making her 20. I agree, she's a woman, but she's still rather young. She just acts extremely mature for her age compared to society of today, and so does Karluk. So I still don't see what the problem is. I know plenty of couples with an 8 year age difference, sure they didn't meet when one was a kid, but it's also unfair to call Karluk a kid. Technically he's a teenager/preteen (12) but back then to everyone he is a man. Teenagers are a new concept that popped up early in the last century, before it wasn't unheard of at all - and many cultures still see age 13 as being the age of manhood. The western culture is the one that raised the age considerably more recently. Karluk IS a man in the eyes of those around him - just a young one. He's not the typical type of 12 year old you'd see around us because he's already taken up the responsibilities that are required of him, and he's left childhood behind. He's not some uneducated little snot in a video game arcade who's being taken advantage of by a wicked older woman and he's fully aware of everything going on. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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I'll never be able to see a jar of Prego sauce the same way again.
The sad reality about Hot Gimmick is you know somewhere in the world there is a real "Hitome" out there going through something not far off a similar situation, so one could also look at Hot Gimmick as a sort of docu-drama in manga form. 
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insomniac1970
 Posts: 21 Location: Pacific Northwest |
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This was a very well-written critique of this manga. I especially agree that this manga HAS to be read as fantasy or you will want to fly to Japan and ask Aihara-sensei if she's got a screw loose to have her heroine so willingly accept the abuse poured on her. I read A LOT of shoujo manga, and this was actually one of the tamer ones in regard to the sexual domination of the heroine. There are mangas where the heroine is raped by the male lead and through that act, she falls in love with him. I wonder if that ever really happens. This manga had its soft, funny, and sweet moments, and those were why I read it to the end. I had to push aside the negative and look for the romantic, which is why I read shoujo in the first...for the romance. Nice article!
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