Forum - View topicREVIEW: Clannad: The Motion Picture DVD
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Metanomaly
Posts: 107 |
|
|||||
|
A perfect intro to the franchise? Are you crazy? It basically spoils the main plot arc for the actual TV series without giving you all the good stuff that happens around the main couple. Insanity.
It's a retelling of the actual story that compresses something 20+ hours of storytelling into 90 minutes. It's an interesting "take" on the story for experienced viewers, but not "a good intro" by any stretch of the imagination. Compare this to something like the "AIR" movie, where it still compresses the series into 90 minutes, but comes out with a much stronger narrative without wiping out all the good stuff around the main character pair. I have no opinion on the ending of Clannad TV. I liked it. |
||||||
|
||||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
The only way I could see this as possible is if you didn't understand at all what the main themes of Air were and you just wanted to see a tragic romance unfold, as that is how the movie goes. I'll agree that for people who are not interested in the fascinating story of Air and only want a quicker B-romance flick, then Air is a good one. Heck, I like the movie, treating it as completely separate from the TV series, but to say it has a stronger narrative is disingenuous to the story that Jun Maeda was trying to get across (that admittedly, does not transfer over as easily to the West). |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Metanomaly
Posts: 107 |
|
|||||
Simple. The AIR TV wanders through various story sub-arcs. The movie streamlines them and makes the narrative themes stand out more. Admittedly, it has an easier time of this given that AIR is 1/4th the length of Clannad and has a much smaller cast of characters. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
|
But the sub-story arcs are all central to the prevalent theme of Air, motherhood, and in particular the link between mothers to their daughters. Again, if romance is all that matters to a viewer, then yes, those sub-story arcs are pointless. But Maeda wasn't going for a romance when he wrote Air. KyoAni wasn't going for strictly romance when they animated Air. Why do you think spoiler[Misuzu ends up in Haruko's arms at the very end?] What do you think was the "narrative theme" of Air and how did it stand out moreso in the movie?
It would be like me saying that the two Clannad series wanders through various sub-story arcs and that the movie streamlines them and makes the themes stand apart. Such a statement is completely wrong of course, as (just like Air TV), all story arcs do have a meaningful purpose, to show the importance of families for each character and to make that very idea the focal point of the show. |
||||||
|
||||||
Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
|
|||||
|
Many would find the problem to be the series subsuming those themes in the use of cuteness, particularly with Michiru. The movie removes that element. It could probably have done a better job preserving the other themes, but it still works well, especially with a mainstream audience.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
|
You mean exactly like how every other Key/KyoAni title does it? Kanon:Makoto and Clannad:Fuuko being the most obvious between the other two.
I do agree that it works for a mainstream audience that wants to watch a tragic romance. I would of course say that the Clannad movie does the exact same as well. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
musouka
Posts: 707 |
|
|||||
To be perfectly blunt, the movie managed to get this across better than the entirety of the TV through a few subtle scenes as opposed to the show's jackhammering it into your skull. spoiler[The scene where Haruka was packing up Misuzu's clothes was especially masterful in the movie.] |
||||||
|
||||||
rossGough
 Posts: 16 Location: Inverness, Scotland |
|
|||||
|
I was really confused reading the review of the film. I Watched through the anime first, which I believe to be the best way to watch them, and the first time I went to watch the film I just didn't want to.
I may be missing something, but where the review praises the film, I thought the opposite. I was much more a fan of the animation and soundtrack of Clannad and After Story, as well as the fact that I was way more emotionally involved with the series than the film - didn't shed one tear in the film, though you could say I knew what was coming. The review does say that the anime uses more time to build the plot up, but I still disagree with a lot of what the review states. It took me three times to watch the film cause I fell asleep the first two times... |
||||||
|
||||||
R315r4z0r
 Posts: 717 |
|
|||||
|
I don't really consider the ending of the series to be a cop out since it was obviously in the working since the first episodes of the first series.
The entire show would have been without that "super natural" tone if it didn't have that "other world" dimension. The show could have ended on a sad note, but I don't necessarily find it bad that it ended the way it did. However, if they instead chose to end it on a sad note, I would have wanted to learn more of an explaination for spoiler[Nagisa and Ushio's sicknesses.] Now, I still haven't watched the movie... and probably wont from all of the bad things I hear about it. Even though this review tends to praise it a bit, I'm not going to lower the value of the series by watching a variation of it that might be toxic to my tastes. |
||||||
|
||||||
asimpson2006
 Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
|
|||||
Remember this is Toei take on the Clannad series. It also came out BEFORE the KyoAni's version came out. I do think it is a better way to test out the waters of Clannad to see if it is a series that you want to invest more money in. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
grooven
Posts: 1424 Location: Canada |
|
|||||
|
I was also not a fan of the movie. Having played the novel and spending hours on end completing route after route (every story played a role in the end). There was large gaping holes cut out (many emotional scenes). Major issues with how things played out. Most of all character personality change with the lead personality. But the movie was alright. Not in any way better than the original as a whole.
As always the Anime version is not a cop out the reasoning wasn't fleshed out for non game players. While arguably if the actual story structure wasn't built around the ending, it would work. But you see it doesn't , not without making the game player want to kill themselves for wasting 100 + hours of their time, collecting orbs! Also Maeda didn't want to make another AIR (and who knows what he would have written if the studios heads didn't have final say  . All his stuff his depressing and usually result in changes from higher ups).
So in short it is impossible to convey how much the ending is not a cop out for the anime. They didn't do a great job of linking it up, but I wonder if it was just game players in mind when it was produced. Who knows same reason why they took out every kiss scene there was with him and Nagisa. End of that. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
rossGough
Posts: 16 Location: Inverness, Scotland |
|
|||||
The only bits of info you could really get on that was the fact that the city was changing, although even that didn't directly link to their sickness. As well as different dimensions and dream worlds, where for some reason spoiler[Ushio couldn't live in both worlds, but Tomoya was technically fine in both, after Ushio 'made' him using the happiness from Tomoya in the real world? Weird! I wont get in to ending discussion though  ] I completely agree with you, I enjoyed After Story and probably rate it as my favourite anime series, at least, at the moment. I needed it to end the way it did, otherwise I would have been depressed for weeks, as opposed to days.
Also, I think it's probably good that you don't watch the film; it just changed things and was technically worse, by far, than the series.
I'd say it's more of how much time you'd be willing to spend. If you watch the anime first, personally I think the emotional scenes that the film shares with it are so much better, and much more... emotional. Duh. If you watched the film first, you're completely spoiling all the big moments, and that would completely null the most part of it. Just a personal view though.
I'd never thought about it this way before, but it really must be referencing to the game. The anime comes down to choices, and consequences. Without all the supernatural things, what the anime is trying to do is tell you that there's different outcomes to the different decisions you make in life, and even suggests alternate realities etc. I've never played the visual you see, so thanks for that enlightenment! Also, I longed for Tomoya and Nagisa to kiss throughout the entire series! Just makes them more cute I guess 
God, I love Clannad. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
kazume
Posts: 129 |
|
|||||
Still cannot agree with this one, he just doesn't hit the emotional parts quite right in any show he's in. He shines in other roles, (looking forward to his work in Baka & Test when I buy that show, SO looking forward to it in english and for what I believe, the perfect role for his voice.) However in this show, he falls flat as the japanese Sunohara actually gave a much better performance during the really tense scenes. This isn't a "dub vs. sub" or "Eng Dub vs. Jpn Voice" debate, or whatever it's called nowadays, so anyone ready to chime in with that one can check it at the door, this is merely a "Japanese Sunohara delivered, Ayres didn't" comment. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
DarkdaemonPK2
Posts: 2 |
|
|||||
|
I've watched the film but I've watched the series first, but I must say the film has the best ending compared to A.S. It is true that not all the girls are there and A.S. has lots of episodes, but A.S. did something very stupid, and that's were Ushio and Tomoya died, instead of having a different ending(like Tomoya reared Ushio or Tomoya could have atleast re-married) not found on the Visual Novel.
I must admit Kyoto animation was very faithful to the game, but since they dont want to let go of Nagisa after her death, and w/ all the whole reset thing were they did not die, feels very cheap and betraying(I mean, c'mon, they dead already! they should get over it!). And as a last note, you dont need to make a lot of episodes for a series, specially if it's composed of crap or unecessary episodes so film is still superior to the series, although it's a bit short; 2 hours should have been the maximum. -DarkdaemonPK2 |
||||||
|
||||||
zensunni
 Posts: 1294 |
|
|||||
|
I fall on the side of those that don't like the movie. I don't hate it, but I don't think it was well done in a lot of ways. It was far too rushed, it gives away a the major plot developments with the flash-forward scenes, and it totally changes the supernatural elements that were a key part of the story. The changes in the "dream" part of the story miss the point of the alternate worlds concept entirely. spoiler[It doesn't help that Kitomi is entirely missing, and it was her parent's research on alternate worlds existing alongside our own that really solidified what the "girl from a world that is ending" parts were really about, at least for me. The other major clue is when Tomoya buys Ushio the robot doll, which looks just like the robot the girl in the other world makes.]
As for the "Cop-out" ending comments that people constantly make, I view that as not understanding the story that is being told alongside the main story. If you dismiss the "girl in a world that is ending" parts and don't pay attention to them, you miss the fact that the "cop-out" ending was set up, starting in episode 1 of the first season. spoiler[It seems that people want Clannad to be either a tragedy where everyone that you care about dies at the end, or they want it to end after Tomoya and Ushio are reunited, but that is not what the author intended, even if it is what they would prefer. The author meant to tell a story about the redemptive power of love and the importance of family, in whatever form you find it. The light orbs, which are there in the story periodically in the TV series, and their relationship to "family building" events, and the connection with the alternate world story are key to the story the author wanted to tell. If you don't like it or don't understand it, perhaps that indicates that it was not clearly done and the writing could have been a bit better, but it doesn't mean that it is a cop-out ending.] The main problem I have with the movie though, is its treatment of depression. The movie removes the majority of the story and replaces it with an "intervention" by a group of concerned friends and "recovery" of Tomoya from major depression is entirely unrealistic and poorly done. I really don't like what the movie did to the Tomoya character. It changes him from a flawed, but strong and capable character to a person unable to overcome his depression and unable to even continue working. The Tomoya in the TV series may feel that Ushio is better off being raised by her grandparents, but he doesn't become a half-baked, lame version of his own father, who can't handle life and doesn't even have the pressures of being a single father to blame for his inability to handle life. I know the nit about the names of Fūko and Mei has already been picked, but I have to say that things like that really decrease my respect for a review. If the reviewer can’t even take the time to open up a page on the web-site that they work for and check the names of the characters they are talking about in the review, it makes me feel that they are probably not taking the time to really think about the show they are reviewing either. I’m not saying that is what is going on here, but that is what those types of errors do to my perception of a review. If it didn’t happen frequently on ANN, I wouldn’t mention it at all, but this is not an isolated incident. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group