×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Noragami + Aragoto (TV).


Goto page Previous    Next

Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Series Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:44 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
No, that's not normal. In fact, it's almost as abnormal as if I got an awful, contagious, potentially fatal rash every time my employee had a nasty thought. You're technically right that a god could refuse to un-name regalia and prevent them from seeking other employment. But clearly this isn't an issue at all in practice. Nobody wants a disharmonious relationship between god and regalia. It screws them both over. Refusing to un-name one who wants to be un-named is just mutually assured destruction as demonstrated quite clearly by the Yato/Yukine situation. There are no regalia being forced against their will to work for a god they don't want to. To do so would be suicide.


It isn't about the ability to refuse to un-name a regalia. It is about the gods throwing away a regalia who stung them once as if it were a broken piece of furniture. In their eyes a harmonious relationship is one in which the regalia can never think any bad thoughts whatsoever or else it's bye bye kid.

By not casting him out, Yato treated Yukine differently but perhaps no less harshly in the specific circumstances, since Yukine came within moments of being completely corrupted. Yukine clearly did not want to be with Yato or used as a weapon, but Yato did kept him around anyway.

ikillchicken wrote:
They said, and I quote "Stinging a god is very serious. [Tenjin] has always upheld this rule." They say absolutely nothing about other gods. Quite to the contrary, they imply that this is Tenjin's rule. This is a fact. Unless you're watching like...a completely different translation maybe, then you are factually incorrect.


Well, my translation was different. But even using your translation my interpretation that Tenjin's rule is not far out there or unusual is a valid possibility. Yato is clearly not a typical god whereas Tenjin in the story represents the establishment, the traditional and accepted way of thinking amongst the gods. From the reactions of various regalia we've seen and been told, it is very clear that even a single instance of stinging is serious, and a normal god would never allow a regalia to sting them very much because of the fear of being corrupted.

In the absence of specific information for other gods, it is reasonable to assume that Tenjin's practice of immediate banishment is not that far out there in terms of typical behaviour.

ikillchicken wrote:
She had a blood soaked bandage on her wrist. They explicitly said: "To harm others or yourself is to betray the master who named you" at which point they cut to a close up of her bandaged wrist. If you're going to deny that this was what what the show was conveying then you're just being obtuse.


No, I was not being obtuse, I was just being unobservant and lazy. I didn't notice the bandages when I watched the episode. And I didn't bother to go back and check the episode when I was writing my previous post; I wish I had.

You were right; the regalia did self harm.

ikillchicken wrote:
Nothing about this indicated that they aren't allowed to ever feel any strong emotion, let alone that they "aren't allowed to be human" as you so dramatically put it.


As I said, to be human is to feel emotion. Although regalia can and do feel emotion, they can't feel it strongly or else they're banished. Grief? Depression? Anger? Too bad pal, you're outta here. They can't think so-called impure thoughts either. As MaxSouth pointed out, innocent lust is enough to sting a god, so regalia can't be sexually attracted to anyone either.

Regalia practically have to live as celibate monks with their feelings under strict control all the freaking time, and they have to do this for tens and hundreds of years. Is life really worth it when you can't actually live?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:38 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
It isn't about the ability to refuse to un-name a regalia.


I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up then. You're the one who has repeatedly mentioned a god can "stop you from leaving his employ with no higher power for you to protest to". And then when I point out why that's a non-issue you claim it's not about that.

Quote:
In the absence of specific information for other gods, it is reasonable to assume that Tenjin's practice of immediate banishment is not that far out there in terms of typical behaviour.


Maybe, maybe not. I imagine other gods are probably closer to him than Yato. Still, Tenjin is the other extreme and there's no real reason to assume he's representative of all gods. His "sting me even once" rule seems like it may very well be just his rule. I mean, he's kinda a big deal. Obviously he has pretty high standards for his regalia. But there are a lot of Japanese gods. They may well fall somewhere in between. And even if that is generally the rule...

Quote:
As I said, to be human is to feel emotion. Although regalia can and do feel emotion, they can't feel it strongly or else they're banished. Grief? Depression? Anger? Too bad pal, you're outta here.


That's not really the case. I don't think at any point the show has indicated that any strong emotion is bad. It has to be pretty extreme thoughts or acts. Certainly unchecked negative emotion can lead to corruption but it doesn't automatically do so. And from what we've seen, it actually takes a lot before corruption sets in and you begin to sting your god. With Yukine, it was stealing shit and Tenjin's regalia actually tired to kill herself. It's inaccurate to suggest that simply getting really mad or depressed on its own will cause a problem or get you canned.

Quote:
They can't think so-called impure thoughts either. As MaxSouth pointed out, innocent lust is enough to sting a god, so regalia can't be sexually attracted to anyone either.


Yeah, I'm not sure. The show has been sorta ambiguous about that. Are any sexual feelings "impure" or it is just the pervy stuff like looking down Hiyori's shirt or thinking about feeling her up while she was asleep? Those are the two instances I recall. I mean, you could be right. It could be all sexual thoughts. If so, yeah, you have a point. That's...well that's religion for you I guess. Although Yato actually has a supposed girlfriend in Kofuku so evidently some manner of romantic interaction is okay.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15462
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:03 pm Reply with quote
You guys are acting like it is only a little bit of pain, but it is a betrayal of everything a regalia is. A regalia is meant to be a moral compass to the god and a weapon to fight against corrupt human souls. Falling into the same emotions that create the monsters and losing sight of what is right is wrong. Being a regalia is like being a monk, they get privileges yet cannot sin or face being exiled.

While there may be a number of gods with Tenjin's rule, he may be a special case as he is a god to help in education, so his job is to lead the young, which may be why he is so strict
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2892
Location: California
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:18 am Reply with quote
Reading everyone's comments, I have to wonder (again) if analyzing anime like this is any fun. I mean, it seems like some people are watching this series just to nitpick. If you don't like it or have problems with how things develop then why not just stop watching instead of writing week after week about what you find wrong with the show?

I've personally just never understood why people analyze developments so much, especially if it's in a negative manner, because it just seems to take all the fun out of watching. Of course the point of a discussion forum is to discuss, but anyway. *shrug* I personally don't find much enjoyment in deep analysis of series. (Which is why I would make a horrible reviewer.)

FYI, Tenjin's shinki was released because she cut her wrist. You can argue whether it was an attempt at suicide or not (she's already dead afterall) but it was this action that got her released. It is made very clear in the manga.

Without giving too much away, yes, shinki are supposed to help guide their god. This becomes a huge element later in the story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:45 pm Reply with quote
#11

spoiler[Seems like Rabo & Yato have a past.
Hiyori's sudden amnesia was weird.
It's a shame Yato isn't using his art to make money.
But I don't think that's the point of being a god..
Guess Nora had something to do with Hiyori's condition.
Things got pretty dark when Yato & Rabo confronted each other.
The info about their past was interesting.
Ending of this episode was pretty sad.
Hope things will get back on track in the final episode.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:01 pm Reply with quote
I have only one thing to ponder about this episode:



Where the frick does that door go?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11355
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Lol, I have one just like it, where I tore down the old deck and haven't got around to building the new one yet.

I would guess it's a fire escape? Maybe it's too close to the street for a permanent ladder so they have one of those roll-ups inside to use in case of fire? As to why it would need a doorknob on the outside...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2892
Location: California
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:46 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Where the frick does that door go?

Those actually exist in Japan and I have seen them. Usually they're on old buildings where the stairway way taken away, like Gina mentioned.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11762
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:56 pm Reply with quote
That's a weird spot for a door.

Anyways, the latest episode seems to have set up for the finale which I hope will be climatic given that the spoiler[Rabo guy will be hard to deal with.] One important part this season will not resolve will be the issue dealing with Bishamonten and her grudge against Yato earlier on. It doesn't seem like this season will be able to resolve that with the finale and I highly doubt it for the OVA either.

Poor Hiyori though....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23772
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:44 pm Reply with quote
Once again Yato seems to be going the route of "don't tell Yukine some key information that would take two seconds to impart and make him understand your actions."

Tenjin told Yato it would be better for Hiyori spoiler[if she actually did forget him - it would force her to focus on her own world and probably stop her from being a half-Phantom.] Makes perfect sense and is a reasonable position to take.

So when Yukine catches up with Yato, does Yato pass any of that info on? Nah. Instead he just mumbles that they should spoiler[forget about Hiyori with no further explanation.] Does this dipshit ever learn?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Arkov



Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:18 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Once again Yato seems to be going the route of "don't tell Yukine some key information that would take two seconds to impart and make him understand your actions."

Tenjin told Yato it would be better for Hiyori spoiler[if she actually did forget him - it would force her to focus on her own world and probably stop her from being a half-Phantom.] Makes perfect sense and is a reasonable position to take.

So when Yukine catches up with Yato, does Yato pass any of that info on? Nah. Instead he just mumbles that they should spoiler[forget about Hiyori with no further explanation.] Does this dipshit ever learn?


You don't account a great deal for emotion when considering character actions, do you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23772
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:25 pm Reply with quote
And you're not a big believer in avoiding unnecessarily lame writing, are you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Arkov



Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:17 pm Reply with quote
Except it isn't unnecessarily lame as it is emotionally consistent with the character.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15462
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:10 am Reply with quote
Episode 11

What I want to know is if at the end Hiyori managed to spoiler[go phantom and follow Yato and Yukine when she grabbed them].

And Yato totally should use his artistic skills to get money, he could become a god of art.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Knoepfchen



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 698
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:00 am Reply with quote
I agree with you, Blood-. By the end of the episode they made it clear that Hiyori is in danger of spoiler[losing much more than her memory of Yato and Yukine], and it's become obvious they have to act in order so save her. But in the beginning, when it was just about Hiyori spoiler[remembering Yato], when Yukine tried very hard on his own to help her spoiler[remember], Yato, again, chose to stay passive and do nothing in order to help the situation either way. Yes, this is emotionally consistent with the character's behavior from past episodes. But that doesn't make it less frustrating?

It seems Nora and Rabo want to spoiler[get Yato back the way he was so that they can all go on a new killing spree together]? Charming. I wonder what changed Yato from spoiler[the merciless warrior we saw in the flashbacks to the much kinder and gentler individual he is now]. It will most certainly involve the dead regalia. I also wonder what helped Rabo become this powerful again. It seems he was almost forgotten for quite a while. As for Yukine, he is developing very well, I think. He is child a child, easily angered and frightened, but he's showing some desire for protecting of both Hiyori and Yato that I really like. He will likely have to spoiler[put his life on the line in order to save Hiyori] in the coming episode.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Series Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 16 of 28

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group