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Black Bullet (TV).


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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13227
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:06 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
And yet another hamfisted attempt at portraying discrimination. Yay.


What, did you think the public was just going to embrace beings with the same powers as the monsters they live in fear of with open arms?

Anyways, this episode is a pretty good example of the issue with light novel adaptations. So many major events happening in one episode with little transition linking them makes things seem pretty rushed.
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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:30 pm Reply with quote
There is no public, or monsters. It's fiction, which means someone wrote it this way.
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Vaisaga



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:42 pm Reply with quote
Then that applies to everything from all forms of fiction. I dunno why you've picked out just this one thing. It's not hard to find examples of this kind of discrimination happening in real life.
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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:44 am Reply with quote
Not everything is as eye-rollingly hamfisted as this. Actually, it is very hard to find examples of this kind of discrimination happening in real life. Discrimination arises for a variety of cultural and historical reasons, and represents a broad cultural consensus. How such a consensus could form in a mere 10 years, to the point where spoiler[casually killing children is OK], especially since most of that time these girls aren't going to be anywhere to be found, is not explained. Nor is there any explanation of what it is that leads some people (main character and friends) to buck that consensus. I'm sure there'll be a sob story or two, but in a culture of actual discrimination, people get over stories like that all the time.

I don't see a story about discrimination, I see an example of another in a set of cheap tools used for shock value and establishing the good guy-ness of a main character.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:39 am Reply with quote
leatherhead333 wrote:
Given that the incident with the "Cursed Children" happened 10 years prior to this episode we can assume she is indeed older than she looks.

Still once I start seeing children making sexual innuendo jokes they instantly lose the cuteness factor in my opinion. It doesn't really matter if she's older does she really have to talk like a bloody whore??!!!! Rolling Eyes


Gotta be a better way to say that dude. I mean, I don't want to bite your head off here, because I agree with you essentially. It's completely absurd that a child is saying these things and it does totally undermine the rest of her character. But any time you call a woman a whore it just comes off as super misogynist and creepy.
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Sunny milk



Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 695
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:33 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:

It's completely absurd that a child is saying these things and it does totally undermine the rest of her character.


Yes, because THAT'S the absurd part of the series and the chains of events, right.
It's also stupid to be hung up over something like that, especially since the series is anything but lolicon and spoiler[Enju will lose to Kisara either ways.]
If anything, it's irritating that she doesn't manage to get her love being accepted.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:15 am Reply with quote
Episode 2

This one showed another side of Enju that I think made the episode really good, that is even harder for the Cursed Children than we were lead to believe. It felt so heartbreaking that spoiler[police would go out of their way to just put her down like some animal.] I had tears in my eyes towards the end of the episode, and I call that a success.

Am I the only one that thinks this show is trying to be like Attack on Titan with its soundtrack? I think mask guy is actually pretty cool, sure he is a villain, but I like the style. Also, "What is in the box?!"

And about finding the discrimination unlikely, you have to remember that pretty much all Gastrea are mutated humans, and it looks like Cursed Children are humans that have been born with the disease. It really is not a large stretch to see that people might see them already as freaks who are inherently not human, just a time bomb of a Gastrea pretending to be a child.
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
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Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:56 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
leatherhead333 wrote:
Given that the incident with the "Cursed Children" happened 10 years prior to this episode we can assume she is indeed older than she looks.

Still once I start seeing children making sexual innuendo jokes they instantly lose the cuteness factor in my opinion. It doesn't really matter if she's older does she really have to talk like a bloody whore??!!!! Rolling Eyes


Gotta be a better way to say that dude. I mean, I don't want to bite your head off here, because I agree with you essentially. It's completely absurd that a child is saying these things and it does totally undermine the rest of her character. But any time you call a woman a whore it just comes off as super misogynist and creepy.


My apologies. I kind of blow my top over little things so sometimes my word can be a bit insensitive.

That being said..........it's time for a full blown rant on why i hated this episode!

Lets look at this checklist of how this episode baffled my mind with it’s genuine lack of good story telling.

1. Generic villain.

Good god is this guy is stale. In the first episode i was willing to overlook his demeanor but Jesus he just got more and more boring as the episode went on. Yes we get it……you are evil and powerful……..can you do something interesting for one second? He even had the gull to pull the “Join me Luke” line which just made me laugh profusely. Can this guy be anymore of a one note character?

2. Main character.

First things first. He’s basically Eren from Attack on Titan (same VA too). Gets mad over everything, is very naive but a caring person. So far i really can’t get behind him because there just isn’t anything interesting about him. He’s just such a typical male lead that there is really nothing for me to like about him. Though I need to take into account the scene with the curse girl getting taken away by police. While i don’t think that it would be responsible of him to start beating up cops I still think it was stupid that he didn’t even try to do anything even after seeing Enju so upset. He could have attempted to pretend like he was her guardian or say he would take responsibility for her theft. Better yet can’t he flash a badge or something to show that he is an Initiator? Oh wait he can’t…….which leads me to my next issue.

3. Why the cursed children’s efforts haven’t been reviled to the public

This is was the thing that baffled me the most. Why exactly is it that the Initiators are a secret agency? That makes no freaking sense to me. In a normal society sure this would be reasonable. But here? No.

Now isn’t the time for keeping secrets especially when it’s the causing the death of your agents via hamfisted discrimination. To add to that I’m pretty sure some people would have witnessed the cursed children and Initiators fighting too since they fight in public sometimes. Making me believe that they have fought these monsters IN PUBLIC and somehow NO ONE IS AROUND to see them just requires WAY to much suspension of disbelief.

Are people really going to start a ruckus over it when they are already on the brink of destruction? That’s like a patient killing his doctors because they had an unsuccessful surgery before and ended up dying afterwards. It just makes me scratch my head. All they have to do is video tape a fight taking place or something of that nature. But nope lets just make it so the entirety of society is indifferent to these kids. It’s such a pathetic setup to basically tell us the same song and dance that people lose their humanity when times get tough which has been done to death for ages now.

And finally….

4. The depiction of the public

Discrimination is a very simple angle of society to exploit. Discrimination has gone on for as long as we’ve been around and it’s probably going to stay that way. But it seems to me anime always portrays humans as unfeeling beings towards super natural forces and thus means that killing them is perfectly within reason. Yes there are a good number of countries/people who might be like that but one thing i feel gets left out of story telling like this is the few people who ARE willing to try to sympathize with beings like this or work with them (not talking about the Initiator agency) . Activists, protesters, normal genuinely nice people other stuff like that. After all we have folks who will put an animals life on the same pedestal as a humans so I’d think there would be some people against the act of murdering children even if they spawned from monsters. And having our MC as one of the only people who seemingly treats them as real people seems completely unrealistic aside from the old man who probably has other motives.

It is only yet another plot device used to make the MC question why he is fighting for humanity and it’s a bad one at that.

I recall playing game where Humans and Monsters were always butting heads. Basically mortal enemies. There were many towns that obviously didn’t even allow monsters in their village which makes sense. But then when you continued going around you found towns that peacefully coexisted with these monsters. Heck some villages worshiped them as gods. And there were others that only let a certain type of monsters in. It was a rather refreshing take on this type of situation and I think it would be a really neat feature to explore in anime instead of this tired mess.

I really hope the next episode turns things around because this one almost broke me with how nonsensical this setting is.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15462
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:56 pm Reply with quote
leatherhead333 wrote:
4. The depiction of the public

Discrimination is a very simple angle of society to exploit. Discrimination has gone on for as long as we’ve been around and it’s probably going to stay that way. But it seems to me anime always portrays humans as unfeeling beings towards super natural forces and thus means that killing them is perfectly within reason. Yes there are a good number of countries/people who might be like that but one thing i feel gets left out of story telling like this is the few people who ARE willing to try to sympathize with beings like this or work with them (not talking about the Initiator agency) . Activists, protesters, normal genuinely nice people other stuff like that. After all we have folks who will put an animals life on the same pedestal as a humans so I’d think there would be some people against the act of murdering children even if they spawned from monsters. And having our MC as one of the only people who seemingly treats them as real people seems completely unrealistic aside from the old man who probably has other motives.

The people have it drummed in that once infected they are a lost cause, they are going to turn into a human eating monster, and the kids are already infected. And it really is not too far off. Look at how crazy people get over AIDS, I am no real expert over it but people get a bit crazy over that, and I think children can be born with it too.

They are not publicly executing them, but it is clear that many of them are under the impression that Cursed Children are already partially mindless monsters. After all it looks like the only ones they see are either feral, stealing, and apparently able to kill people who try to stop them, or trained by their "masters". Probably mix that with years of poor media and uninformed gossip, and you have a believable set up for people to act out.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13227
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:42 pm Reply with quote
leatherhead333 wrote:
And having our MC as one of the only people who seemingly treats them as real people seems completely unrealistic aside from the old man who probably has other motives.


Don't forget that Seitenshi is also pushing a law to get those kids humans rights.

Also there's nothing to suggest that the kid's efforts are hidden from the public. The regular authorities sure know about them.

Not like that would stop the public from hating them anyways. All they'd see are potentially dangerous monsters that could decide to turn on them at any moment. Fear and the unknown are all you need to get people to pick up the pitch forks and torches.

Humanity's history of discrimination is pretty well documented. It's something that will repeat itself as soon as a new 'other' is encountered. Since this show doesn't take place in some sort of magical pixie dream world, a lack of discrimination would be harder to believe.

As for Enju, she's just precocious. Kids these days know a lot more about the world then most adults like to believe.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:38 pm Reply with quote
I don't know if I'd say the scenario is completely impossible. But yeah, it's pretty over the top though. And that's more or less okay for a simple action show. But if the show is actually trying to do more than set up some pretty rote drama, something a lot more nuanced would be nice.

leatherhead333 wrote:
My apologies. I kind of blow my top over little things so sometimes my word can be a bit insensitive.


That's cool. Don't worry about it. Like I said, I don't think what you said in itself was unreasonable. It was evidently just a poor choice of words.

Sunny milk wrote:
Yes, because THAT'S the absurd part of the series and the chains of events, right. It's also stupid to be hung up over something like that, especially since the series is anything but lolicon and spoiler[Enju will lose to Kisara either ways.] If anything, it's irritating that she doesn't manage to get her love being accepted.


You know, it's basically to be expected that somebody is gonna pop up to tell me I'm crazy for being put off by a small child trying overtly to have sex with her teenage guardian. But you could at least just pick one justification instead of this shotgun approach. You just end up contradicting yourself when you try to tell me "It's okay because her feelings aren't returned but also, it's a real shame her feelings aren't returned."
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Bango



Joined: 06 Jul 2013
Posts: 1122
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:44 pm Reply with quote
I think what Leatherhead is getting at with the descrimination is that he wants to see more different sides to the dice. Hate groups, charity groups, people for, people against.

To take an example from Z/X, in one city the otherworlders need to hide and have fake identities. Yet in another everyone waves hi to the giant metal T-rex stomping down the main street. In Black Bullet, apart from the spoiler[ruler woman trying to pass a law nobody seems in favour of and an old man in a sewer] it doesn't seem there's more than 2 sides to the dice here.

That might (and hopefully will) change as the episodes show the setting more. And so far there's nothing to show that it won't.

I just saw ep2 and yeah, I freakin hate the villain. I like a lot of factors of this show but I might end up dropping it because of him. And the people in that board room were freakin stupid.
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Sunny milk



Joined: 22 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:20 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:

You know, it's basically to be expected that somebody is gonna pop up to tell me I'm crazy for being put off by a small child trying overtly to have sex with her teenage guardian. But you could at least just pick one justification instead of this shotgun approach. You just end up contradicting yourself when you try to tell me "It's okay because her feelings aren't returned but also, it's a real shame her feelings aren't returned."


Because there's nothing wrong with it considering it's anime, and there are very special circumstances involved.
And even besides that, what I'm getting at is that you were hung up at THAT as absurd, and not ALL THE OTHER SICK AND WRONG THINGS happening.
Like, you know, spoiler[shooting them as dogs, or mass murdering kids.]
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:31 pm Reply with quote
Yeaaaaaah, I dunno about this one. I'm stubbing my toe over a lot of the things that have already been mentioned by other people. Primary for me is the emotional manipulation of portraying cruelty to children. Perhaps my least favorite way of whipping up outrage.

I'm too anime hardened to really get worked up over would-be seductress loli. That's simply business as usual.

Villain blows. He will be all powerful until he's not. Don't see much hope of him being anything more than one-dimensional.

Yet, despite all this, I'm still kinda into it. No plans to drop it yet.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:10 pm Reply with quote
Sunny milk wrote:
Because there's nothing wrong with it considering it's anime, and there are very special circumstances involved.


Yep, that's the anime fandom for you. Where not only do people have no issue with little kids trying to bone teenagers, they'll actively tell you you're wrong for even being put off by it. Rolling Eyes
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