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Last edited by MaxSouth on Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

Spotlesseden wrote:

your writing doesn't make sense. And you are not watching the anime. They are all using their avatar names. Kirito asked who are the new players, first time players, who made it to the finals.
If you want to criticize people's writing, you need to atleast back up with something. You can't make stuffs up and stated you opinions.

My writing makes perfect sense because authors came up with virtual game with system where pictures of how players look in a contest lists are not seen, only their nicknames. This is ridiculously not realistic for games and it was blatantly done only to come up with fake "mystery" about who among the newcomers is that evil gunner.

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Kirito is not scare of this Dead Gun guy. He is just feeling bad about not remembering the people that he killed. This is not a Guilty pleasure that you talked about.

This whole concept of "not remembering" is cheap and lame. This one of the reasons why I call this show a soap opera. AND Kirito has panic attacks about things he can not remember -- which is double insane.

By the way, it is ridiculous that authors have made super professional blue-coloured girl player not knowing such basic fact as that characters disappear from the game map if they take their equipment off. This is just another case of lazy writing to explain how Kirito unexpectedly appeared right at the point where the blue-coloured girl was.

Authors just can not come up with better, high quality story that would not need such dubious crutches they use couple of times per episode.

MaxSouth wrote:

This whole concept of "not remembering" is cheap and lame. This one of the reasons why I call this show a soap opera. AND Kirito has panic attacks about things he can not remember -- which is double insane.

You really don't know very much do you?

MaxSouth wrote:

Spotlesseden wrote:

your writing doesn't make sense. And you are not watching the anime. They are all using their avatar names. Kirito asked who are the new players, first time players, who made it to the finals.
If you want to criticize people's writing, you need to atleast back up with something. You can't make stuffs up and stated you opinions.

My writing makes perfect sense because authors came up with virtual game with system where pictures of how players look in a contest lists are not seen, only their nicknames. This is ridiculously not realistic for games and it was blatantly done only to come up with fake "mystery" about who among the newcomers is that evil gunner.

that's why your writing doesn't make sense because they almost never list the players avatars in MMO. Most likely they just pull the data off from database.

MaxSouth wrote:

This whole concept of "not remembering" is cheap and lame. This one of the reasons why I call this show a soap opera. AND Kirito has panic attacks about things he can not remember -- which is double insane.

Imagine you went to a warzone, you did not go there because you plan to kill someone but it just happened. Through events you were forced into a situation where you had to kill people that you did not know, they were bad people but still alive, it is a traumatising experience as taking a life is not easy. It was a horrible experience and you told yourself that you could never forget that, even though in some ways you wish that you kind of could. You still go through so much in that time, many other people die right in front of you, and when you leave that warzone you did not think about that time you killed those people. It is not until some time later when you meet someone with a tattoo, the tattoo of the group of merceneries that you attacked and killed some of. You ask yourself how you could have forgotten that, when did you stop thinking about it? Your memory is so foggy that you cannot even remember their faces, not only did you not know their names but maybe you are so messed up that those lives meant nothing to you.

If you think that the above story makes no sense, then there are things you don't understand. It is super easy to watch and play so many fictional media and see nothing but a sea of deaths that just get washed out, but in person it can be so much more.

DuskyPredator wrote:

MaxSouth wrote:

This whole concept of "not remembering" is cheap and lame. This one of the reasons why I call this show a soap opera. AND Kirito has panic attacks about things he can not remember -- which is double insane.

Imagine you went to a warzone, you did not go there because you plan to kill someone but it just happened. Through events you were forced into a situation where you had to kill people that you did not know, they were bad people but still alive, it is a traumatising experience as taking a life is not easy. It was a horrible experience and you told yourself that you could never forget that, even though in some ways you wish that you kind of could. You still go through so much in that time, many other people die right in front of you, and when you leave that warzone you did not think about that time you killed those people. It is not until some time later when you meet someone with a tattoo, the tattoo of the group of merceneries that you attacked and killed some of. You ask yourself how you could have forgotten that, when did you stop thinking about it? Your memory is so foggy that you cannot even remember their faces, not only did you not know their names but maybe you are so messed up that those lives meant nothing to you.

If you think that the above story makes no sense, then there are things you don't understand. It is super easy to watch and play so many fictional media and see nothing but a sea of deaths that just get washed out, but in person it can be so much more.

This. GGO at heart is a story about The struggle to overcome PTSD. It's handling a tough issue with surprising maturity.

Spotlesseden wrote:

MaxSouth wrote:

Spotlesseden wrote:

your writing doesn't make sense. And you are not watching the anime. They are all using their avatar names. Kirito asked who are the new players, first time players, who made it to the finals.
If you want to criticize people's writing, you need to atleast back up with something. You can't make stuffs up and stated you opinions.

My writing makes perfect sense because authors came up with virtual game with system where pictures of how players look in a contest lists are not seen, only their nicknames. This is ridiculously not realistic for games and it was blatantly done only to come up with fake "mystery" about who among the newcomers is that evil gunner.

that's why your writing doesn't make sense because they almost never list the players avatars in MMO. Most likely they just pull the data off from database.

Can you show me a MMO game where you can not see avatars of players' characters. Even if in some form of lists it is just nicknames, you can see character avatars anyway.

Bugnin wrote:

This. GGO at heart is a story about The struggle to overcome PTSD. It's handling a tough issue with surprising maturity.

Something about this made me laugh. I know I'm a bad person.

It is handling the issue of PTSD very badly from a storytelling stand point. Sinon was able to do the gun pose that only a few episodes prior made her have a panic attack. Am i really supposed to believe that Kirito has already done enough to get her overcome some of her real life problems already? Gee I wish it was that easy.

Now the problem with Kirito's current PTSD is that it was invented from thin air. It was not foreshadowed. The audience had no idea he had it. And the event where it spawned from was important to the first arc's story. Don't you think it's to much of a coincidence that firstly Kirito was given a girlish avatar that was used as a plot device to get closer to Sinon. They then proceed to bond through the power of PTSD! We've both been through the same thing so we can sympathize with each other! (Gag)

Here is the bottom line. I think the writers realized that Kirito didn't really have enough to his character. For the most part he was Lower Level Gary Stu in that he didn't win all his battles and did receive help but still accomplished some crazy feats above what a normal player could do. So in GGO they tried to fix that. But did so in a horrible fashion. We as the audience have experienced everything Kirito has but now they want us to care about this PTSD that we had no idea that he had? No thanks. It was a nice attempt but they really should have done so earlier so it didn't feel so convenient for this arc's storyline for "PTSD bonding" with Sinon.

Last edited by MaxSouth on Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Bugnin wrote:

This. GGO at heart is a story about The struggle to overcome PTSD. It's handling a tough issue with surprising maturity.

Yes, this is what authors want to make it look. But it is inconsistent with previous season and it is made in a way that is not like PTSD. Besides, no known cases of PTSD coming from a virtual game are known.

You have to stretch, and stretch, and then stretch your ability to believe in what authors trying to tell you nearly in every step of the way.

In case of better writing, the story should not feel artificial or "stretched" like that. Alas, not in this show (though, again, this anime is still fun).

Well if you think about it they could shift how their character looks with various helmets or masks as simple as changing clothes. In that case seeing what someone's avatar looks like could be in that way would either have character's submitting an image, a bare bones image where you see them without any equipment, or something quite exploitable which shows a constantly updated image (a maybe problem if characters were not wearing clothes at any time). So I would think there would be no easy way to pick out who is wearing the Death Gun equipment.

MaxSouth wrote:

Bugnin wrote:

This. GGO at heart is a story about The struggle to overcome PTSD. It's handling a tough issue with surprising maturity.

Yes, this is what authors want to make it look. But it is inconsistent with previous season and it is made in a way that is not like PTSD. No known cases of PTSD coming from virtual game are known.

This is silly considering that there are known life-or-death video games either. It wasn't a virtual game, it was a war played out in a virtual world, with real life-or-death consequences.

It is also not inconsistent with SAO, given that in SAO Kirito was never given time to think. He was constantly in the moment, between saving his own life and then trying to save Asuna's. Soldiers themselves often don't develop PTSD until they've come home and their brains have had time to absorb the emotional trauma they went through.

Far as the writing goes, I agree it feels stretched to a degree, because the characters get a little more depth to them because the writer himself was getting better at writing his characters (this will be especially true of Asuna in the next season btw).

That said, IMO it still fits within the confines of the characters themselves, and doesn't contradict anything they've said or done prior.

[quote="Bugnin"]

MaxSouth wrote:

It is also not inconsistent with SAO, given that in SAO Kirito was never given time to think. He was constantly in the moment, between saving his own life and then trying to save Asuna's. Soldiers themselves often don't develop PTSD until they've come home and their brains have had time to absorb the emotional trauma they went through.

I guess you just missed the honeymoon episode then right? Kirito had plenty of downtime to think about everything he went through during and after the first arc.

[quote="leatherhead333"]

Bugnin wrote:

MaxSouth wrote:

It is also not inconsistent with SAO, given that in SAO Kirito was never given time to think. He was constantly in the moment, between saving his own life and then trying to save Asuna's. Soldiers themselves often don't develop PTSD until they've come home and their brains have had time to absorb the emotional trauma they went through.

I guess you just missed the honeymoon episode then right? Kirito had plenty of downtime to think about everything he went through during and after the first arc.

uh...that isn't downtime. Nothing in SAO is downtime, knowing that they were all essentially hostages that could die at any minute. The entire world was a facade.

It's like being in a war and getting a pass to the rear to physically recuperate. You're still in the war, just no longer at the frontlines.

PTSD isn't about having time to think, it's about your brain switching off the high-alert switch it was on for years of war, and then torturing you with memories (often buried deep under layers of psychosis) of things you basically saw or did on auto-pilot in the interest of self-preservation.

Sinon's "war" was obviously more compact, but otherwise had the same effect. She wasn't traumatized until her life was no longer in danger and it sank in what she had done. The images themselves are out of her mind until visual stimulation drags them back to the surface.

[quote="Bugnin"]

leatherhead333 wrote:

Bugnin wrote:

MaxSouth wrote:

It is also not inconsistent with SAO, given that in SAO Kirito was never given time to think. He was constantly in the moment, between saving his own life and then trying to save Asuna's. Soldiers themselves often don't develop PTSD until they've come home and their brains have had time to absorb the emotional trauma they went through.

I guess you just missed the honeymoon episode then right? Kirito had plenty of downtime to think about everything he went through during and after the first arc.

uh...that isn't downtime. Nothing in SAO is downtime, knowing that they were all essentially hostages that could die at any minute. The entire world was a facade.

It's like being in a war and getting a pass to the rear to physically recuperate. You're still in the war, just no longer at the frontlines.

PTSD isn't about having time to think, it's about your brain switching off the high-alert switch it was on for years of war, and then torturing you with memories (often buried deep under layers of psychosis) of things you basically saw or did on auto-pilot in the interest of self-preservation.

That's not the point I was making. You said Kirito never had time to think which is indeed false. He was NOT always thinking every moment "I could die any second I have to get out of here!". They went on honeymoons, got a kid and enjoy themselves as if it were happening in real life. They even questioned if it would be ok for them to continue living like that since they were so happy. Yes they realized it was a facade but they still thought about how happy they became together BECAUSE of this game.

Kirito remembered killing the laughing coffin guy who Asuna saved him from. That was the start of his trauma. So why not the other folks he killed in the raid? Why were they excluded from the story? If the writer wanted to use the excuse "Oh PTSD is stuff that you don't always remember so i can invent this incident to make up for my characters lack of depth" then that's a pretty cruddy excuse.

Last edited by Bugnin on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

leatherhead333 wrote:

That's not the point I was making. You said Kirito never had time to think which is indeed false.

Poor wording on my part. "Time to let it sink in" would have been more accurate.

Quote:

He was NOT always thinking every moment "I could die any second I have to get out of here!"

Oh yes, they actually were. Do you not remember Asuna's point about "we don't know what's happening to our bodies?"

Yes they found distractions in each other, but that's different from the effect of normalcy. They never had that. Even in their "honeymoon," in the back of their minds they knew that they could die the second they went back to the frontlines for the next boss battle.

Quote:

Kirito remembered killing the laughing coffin guy who Asuna saved him from. That was the start of his trauma.

The raid happened before the incident with Kuradeel.

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So why not the other folks he killed in the raid? Why were they excluded from the story? If the writer wanted to use the excuse "Oh PTSD is stuff that you don't always remember so i can invent this incident to make up for my characters lack of depth" then that's a pretty cruddy excuse.

I don't even get this question. PTSD IS stuff you don't always remember, so whether you find it a cruddy excuse or not, it fits within the confines of the story.

Was it the writer's intention from the start, or did he decide to add it when he started to write GGO? I honestly don't know and don't care, because I don't find it to be contradictory, and it makes GGO a better story and Kirito a better character.

That's fair enough then. I don't find it contradictory either but was not properly implemented imo. It just makes me question if this arc was planned out properly or not. I think they could have attempted to add more depth to Kirito in a less arbitrary fashion.

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