Forum - View topicAkame ga Kill! (TV).
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
ookamigirl
 Posts: 2274 Location: Croatia |
|
||
|
#10
spoiler[Tatsumi & Esdeath moment ROFL That crazy bitch really likes him... Esdeath's new team the Jaegers are pretty scary, but impressive too. Tatsumi was pretty stubborn about converting Esdeath, but it was useless. She does genuinely like him though. Tatsumi used his chance to escape. He got sidetracked by mystery man... Luckily Akame came to his rescue. Esdeath was so not happy about Tatsumi's escape. The last scene of the episode was very interesting.] |
|||
|
|||
ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
|
||
|
Episode 10:
Lots of interesting stuff to discuss from this episode. I really liked how they handled the expected "fan-service" scenes toward the beginning of the episode. They went with the same humorous vibe they've been using throughout the show, but we also got a dose of seriousness and background information at the same time. First of all, Esdeath didn't just go in and molest Tatsumi like some people were predicting. We got the expected tantalizing shower scene, and then before she could make any moves on Tatsumi, spoiler[he tried to convince her to join the Revolutionary Army.] There was a lot that came out of the ensuing back and forth: (1) Tatsumi's belief that he can spoiler[somehow turn Esdeath to good ] is both a reflection of his own innocence and his remaining ignorance/naivete, which the show makes clear is both a strength and a flaw for him. (2) Esdeath does seem to have weaknesses that were revealed. Specifically, when spoiler[Tatsumi said he wanted to join the Revolution and asked her to come with him, she slapped him and warned him against saying something like that to a general of the Capital. If she were a normal cold-hearted villain, you would have expected her to kill him, but instead she seems willing to protect him even though he might be her enemy.] I guess it's just more indication that she is human, and it's funny that at the very end Akame made that same observation, although perhaps in another context - her weakness is that she's a human with a pulse. (3) I think we got a little more understanding of why Esdeath wanted her lover to be "innocent." I think she sees it as an added challenge. A sadistic, selfish person would be no challenge for her, but she seems excited by the idea of an innocent person resisting her. I also thought it was interesting how spoiler[she says she understands why Tatsumi doesn't like the Capital]. She seems to be a very self-aware type of evil. I thought it was a pretty entertaining scene spoiler[(and the part where Tatsumi complains that he was treated like a body pillow was pretty hilarious imo)], but it wasn't for the fan-service, which I think was actually quite minimal in comparison to what we usually get. There was so much background info that we got through that scene, and the tone was both funny and frightening, which this show seems to handle well. Another thing I liked about this episode was how spoiler[Tatsumi got to spend some time among the villains, and get to know them as if he were just another comrade of theirs. I think it creates a nice set up for when they eventually clash on the battlefield. Particularly, Wave and the guy with the mask on his face seemed like people who could have been Tatsumi's friends if he wasn't their enemy. Also, we got a bit more reinforcement of Justice Girl's false belief that she is fighting on the side of good, and that was juxtaposed fantastically by the scenes of the battle against the Revolutionary Army base where she was shown to be the most twisted and disturbing member of the Jaegers aside from Esdeath (it seems that Doctor style guy has "upgraded" her body in some frightening ways).] I don't wanna go on forever, but there were two other scenes that I particularly liked this episode. One was the scene where spoiler[Tatsumi and Wave were walking together, and Wave was commenting about how similar they are. Again, I think it's nice set up for them clashing. It reminds us about how Tatsumi could have been just like Wave if he didn't join Night Raid.] I also had a good laugh when spoiler[Lubbock said that he was going to have a harem with Tatsumi gone.] Nice little self-deprecation there that shows you that this show knows how to not be too serious and poke fun at itself. |
|||
|
|||
Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23779 |
|
||
|
Man, CK, I love the fact that you are completely vibing on this show the way I am. I like the show so much and it feels good having someone else appreciating it the same way. I've had this experience before of really liking a show, but unluckily its discussion thread seemed to have more than its fair share of twits who didn't appreciate its good qualities (I speak of Beyond the Boundary, if anyone is curious).
You've already pointed out a lot of what I liked in the eppie, but in terms of an overall comment what I love is that my expectations were CONSTANTLY being upended, which I see as a hallmark of good storytelling. Starting with Tatsumi earnestly trying spoiler[to convert the General to his cause.] I didn't see that coming at all. A lesser show would have had him spoiler[pretending to go along with her and seeking the first chance to escape.] Actually, now that I think about it, it does seem spoiler[out of character for the General to let Tatsumi out her sight when he has so readily demonstrated his viewpoint to her. But then again I have to smile at her reasoning for doing so - she'd be with him at night when the Danger Beasts are more prevalent and thus have a chance to "impress" him.] 
Even the fake out of it seeming like spoiler[Tatsumi was about to attack Wave but was actually attacking a Fanged Tree] worked on me. The show is constantly doing these little things that please me. I also really like how the show is depicting that the General's spoiler[feelings for Tatsumi are genuine and non-insane.] Again, I wouldn't have predicted that. I really can't sing the praises of this show enough. |
|||
|
|||
|
ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
|
||
Yea, I'm definitely enjoying this show a lot. It's currently my #1 this season. For me, it seems to be a great example of a show that just executes very well on its narrative and character development. It reminds me a good bit of Log Horizon in that way. Almost every episode, we've just had very solid, consistently smart storytelling with a thrilling overall concept. |
|||
|
|||
|
Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11362 |
|
||
|
I got no major complaints this episode. I think (hope) they've turned a corner here. Tatsumi's dilemmas were dire enough to care about and handled very well, Esdeath's characterization evolved and the new crew is interesting, the humor was funny and appropriately placed. They've finally engaged me in the story with all these improvements, so I hope they keep it up.
Does anyone else get Koko Hekmatyar vibes from Esdeath? Must be the eyelashes. |
|||
|
|||
|
getchman
Space Cowboy Posts: 9120 Location: Bedford, NH |
|
||
|
I'm not really convinced Esdeth is actually in love. I think maybe she is in love with the idea of love. I'm certainly willing to let the show prove I'm wrong.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23779 |
|
||
|
Yeah, I would agree it's probably too early to be able to say for sure what her deal is vis-a-vis Tatsumi, but there are indications it's genuine. We'll see how she feels once she knows Tatsumi is all Night Raidy and stuff. I'm guessing some flowers and a box of candy won't be sufficient to get out of that one...
|
|||
|
|||
|
ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
|
||
For me, right now it's a question of whether it is infatuation or really deep love. We've already seen that it is something more than just a normal level of interest or camaraderie, as she was shown to be blushing quite a lot when she sees him (particularly when he shows how innocent he is. I literally laughed out loud during episode 9 when Tatsumi won the tournament and suddenly said, "Yatta!!!" in that super high pitched cute voice, and Esdeath reacted with extreme arousal.) My take at the moment is that she is strongly infatuated, and it is very close to love, but just not the type of love that would make you do anything to be with that person. She has already shown that spoiler[she values the lives of her subordinates over capturing him alive again], so I don't think this is head over heels type of love. But, at the same time it is clear that she wants him back very badly and still intends to make him fall for her. Maybe she sees it as another grand conquest (perhaps the greatest conquest?) that she hasn't achieved yet. Last edited by ChibiKangaroo on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|||
|
|||
|
getchman
Space Cowboy Posts: 9120 Location: Bedford, NH |
|
||
|
I kinda think this is a bucket list item, or two. one of the most powerful people in the kingdom, and likely has or can have anything she wants, so why not love. I'm thinking what she really wants is someone with unwavering loyalty and absolute obedience and the best way to accomplish that is doing she's currently doing. two birds with one stone, experience what she thinks is love and more importantly, train her perfect soldier.
|
|||
|
|||
DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
||
|
Episode 10
I can buy that her infatuation of his innocent self is maybe an indication of some aspect she misses. Indeed it being a conquest seems to hold some parts of it, but there also seems to be some subtle hints that maybe buried somewhere in there is a more complex character. Only whether it would be possible to bring that part out seems rather foolish. Her belief of survival of the fittest is unlikely something that could be changed with just words so easily. Overall I like the way this show has been going with balancing out with its characters. |
|||
|
|||
Jacquipuff
 Posts: 274 Location: Silver Spring, MD |
|
||
|
Wow, who would've thought that Wave had such an awesome Imperial Arms? And Seryu continues to be creepy...so does she just have a large stock of spoiler[replacement arms? Since it seems like she has to remove them in order to utilize the guns.]
Anyway, nice to see more of the antagonists. Esdeath is actually pretty interesting, Initially I never thought she would be, just based on her first few appearances. It'll be very interesting to see what sort of effect her feelings for Tatsumi have in the future, now that spoiler[Tatsumi is back with the rest of Night Raid and will undoubtedly have to face her at some point.] |
|||
|
|||
leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
|
||
|
To much happiness going on here. Time to play devil's advocate >:I
Not trying to come off as a Esdeath hater but I think you guys are reading way to much into her while trying to paint her as somehow complex. She's complex for someone who came from this show that's for sure but in general she really isn't. Here is the problem i have with that bedroom scene. It seems to me that they wanted to just make Esdeath into a "moe" villain with most of this. The way she is all over Tatsumi, a guy she just met no less is hardly convincing since she chose him based on his smile alone. Personally i would have preferred that the scene was more awkward since she obviously hasn't done this sort of thing before but she pretty much lays it out that she's going to do anything for him already. I mean didn't you guys complain about about the two main characters in Soredemo not having a believable relationship (Shota king and Nike)? Heck I'd agree with that sentiment but here it's even worse. The realm of comedy and complexity isn't something i can determine after seeing her in that scene. She spoiler[surprise kisses him] as soon as the guy asks if she likes her. That's pretty over the top for me to take her seriously right now but meh. Also I see you didn't mention the whole spoiler["weak people suck"] line Chibi :I. That pretty much brought down the moment for me. You also neglected to mention that Tatsumi actually spoiler[directly asks Esdeath if she understands what he's talking about with people suffering in the capital and she bluntly says "I do not understand weak people".] I think you only watched half of that scene  .
Also I don't think she's self aware. She spoiler[merely said she understands why he hates the capital at first to reassure him.] Didn't you notice how shespoiler[ kept saying she would protect him or his family if he wanted her too?] That's not a sign of love. That's bargaining so she can keep her toy happy. She wants to satisfy him by giving him everything he wants. Which is just an attempt to control him. Still pretty villainous
Again she is in "I love you so much!" mode right now. Even if she is aware of that there are things wrong with the capital why would it matter if she didn't care to stop it? As long as her and her allies get to do what they want she's simply taking advantage of her position to satisfy her subjects regardless of the crap that goes on under her nose. In a sense she's worse than justice girl who doesn't care if people she see's as good do bad things because that's her form of justice. Esdeath loving the challenge Tatsumi brings to her is somewhat interesting but I think you are reading way to much into her. As for Tatsumi and Wave I'm sure everyone called them being able to relate to each other. They are basically the same character. To bad when Tatsumi says spoiler["We are not evil!"] I laughed. I get it. You get two characters with similar ideals, powers and personality to fight each other. That's a nice setup in my opinion. That way we can see just how much Tatsumi's way of thinking has changed from how he was originally. But maybe I'm expecting to much to wish for some interesting dialogue here. I think that face off between them could have been a great battle of rivaling ideals and misguided justice. Alas..... 
|
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23779 |
|
||
|
I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that we think Esdeath is terribly complex. From what I am perceiving, we are simply recognizing that they played the bedroom scene contrary to what the normal expectation would be if this show wasn't as smart as it is.
Your opinion that the show is trying to make Esdeath into a "moe" villain is laughably trite. All they are trying to do show a different facet of her. That's where the fun comes in: she's a powerful, sadistic person who wants to be in love. That desire for love is not presented in any kind of "dawwwwwww!!!" moe way at all. Again, the fun comes from the matter of fact way she is pursuing Tatsumi. She readily admits she doesn't really know what she's doing, but confidently forges ahead. That ain't moe. Your contention that Esdeath only fell for Tatsumi because of his smile is simply sloppy observation on your part. We saw Esdeath's checklist of qualities she is looking for in a guy and Tatsumi has them all (including being younger because she wants to dominate ). Also, if you were a bit more perceptive, you would probably be able to figure out that Esdeath is intrigued by Tatsumi's combination of innocence/naivete and killer instinct which was on display at the tournament.
I completely buy her infatuation with Tatsumi. He is not infatuated with her, so the relationship is completely one sided. He was willing to try to use her feelings for him to his advantage, but that doesn't mean he feels anything positive about her. So your citing of Shota King and Nike in the context of Tatsumi and Esdeath is bizarre. In the first pairing, both parties fell for each other. I think we all understood why Shorty dug Nike, but to me at least the reverse wasn't that apparent. The fact that you can't take Esdeath kissing Tatsumi right off the bat seriously is another bizarre observation. That was played for laughs - it shows how clueless she is when it comes to seduction ... especially seduction of a dude who isn't into her. You weren't supposed to take that "seriously." Wasn't that stunningly obvious? Not sure why you think that Esdeath's comment that she doesn't understand weak people is so objectionable. From what we know of her outlook, that lines up perfectly. It also may be a hint of a character arc for her. That's her attitude right now - perhaps it will come to change? We'll see. |
|||
|
|||
|
leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
|
||
|
Come on Blood- I know you saw the moe in that scene (we are brothers in moe arms after all! :I).
The girl was practically blushing at his remarks at every turn. Moe isn't exactly the right word but seriously you don't think they were trying to make her extremely cute (and seductive) to offset what is already established as her personality of being a cold blooded torturer? Is that comedy or sincere? By the way Esdeath isn't even bad at seduction. I doubt many normal people would resist her especially when she offers everything they could ever want. Someone like Tatsumi who knows what she's done obviously wouldn't go for her but an average Joe? They'd be all over that. You say the kiss was played up for laughs but how am I supposed to know if her feelings are genuine when I have no idea when I'm supposed to take her behavior seriously? That's exactly why I have an issue with the tone. She is completely in love with Tatsumi just from him matching her type. How do you find that believable in comparison to Nike falling in love with Livi? She's not high school crush in love she's full on "Have my kids you beautiful creature!" in love. Yes that matches the comedic tone already established in the show but I still don't see it as being genuine merely comedic with how over the top it was. And while i was a little off you should remember that as SOON as Tatsumi smiled innocently Esdeath chose him so yes TECHNICALLY she did choose him for his smile .
|
|||
|
|||
|
Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23779 |
|
||
|
No, I don't think they were trying to make her extremely cute or (effectively) seductive. As I say, that was what made the scene funny. They are both innocents when it comes to lovey-dovey stuff. Look, not much I can say if you can't pick up on that. Also what makes Tatsumi's nervousness more believable than the usual anime guy nervousness (where for some reason the idea of being intimate with a female is the scariest thing ever) is that he has good reason to be nervous. Disappoint a chick like Esdeath and you are liable to find out where the "death" part of her name comes from - but not before undergoing a huge amount of torture.
Why is it important for you to know if her feelings are genuine at this point? That's one of things I find interesting. I think she is in earnest and sincere but I still don't know for sure yet. I think she's still trying to figure stuff out so why would any of us be sure of her feelings at this point? Part of the fun is going to see where this all goes. The fact that she has told her subordinates to capture Tatsumi alive if possible but not to bother if it would endanger their own lives is also interesting. I've already explained why I believe Esdeath is infatuated with Tatsumi. But even if you still can't figure it out, look at it this way: Esdeath is clearly not the most even-keeled of people. Her forming an irrational bond with somebody makes a whole lot more sense than a level-headed person like Nike doing the same thing. |
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group