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Ohoho, those dating options.

This was another build-up episode of sorts. But then again, spoiler[if Tatsumi ever meets Esdeath a third time, they will most likely be enemies. Still, I thought a mini Esdeath during her childhood was kinda cut]e.

Their spoiler[short time together on that island will probably be something of a valuable memory to her as well.]

Well even if it didn't progress much, we at least found out more information about spoiler[Esdeath's childhood and her gaining her Ice Imperial Arms.]

spoiler[TatsumixEsdeath] is pretty darn cute, even if it is 99.9% one sided love. She's probably my favourite/ most interesting character in the show, but i'd find it really hard to dislike her at this point.

Did I detect a spoiler[swimsuit] episode in the next preview? Laughing

#14

spoiler[Tatsumi got jumped by Esdeath.
New character made an appearance.
It was foolish of him to challenge them.
Tatsumi got a nice kiss #^-^#
That fight was pretty challenging though.
Esdeath sure enjoyed her time on the island with Tatsumi.
They got rather close too.
Telling their pasts to each other was interesting.
After hearing all that, no wonder she grew up to be a sociopath.]

I'm not sure if anyone knows this but ... why is this show called Akame ga Kill! Akame doesn't seem like a major character at this point. Odd.

Anyway, fun eppie. And no, Shikiari, your eyes did not deceive. Get ready for some spoiler[fanservice], folks.

Episode 14

Well we find out about Esdeath's past, and I can't tell for certain if my prior thoughts are wrong or not. I did not quite expect that Esdeath spoiler[was already a believer in the strong survive], but it seemed to be spoiler[drummed into, even if her father noted she was rather merciless].

The episode made me like her even more. From what we have heard it looks like being with Tatsumi is really changing her, I think that it is no small part that her requirements for a guy were not random. I think that the spoiler[description also matches what she was like when she was young, and being around him is bringing back that part of her]. She really liked to spoiler[show off to her father, and similarly she wants to show off to Tatsumi, and it seems she is increasingly showing interest in watching flowers and animals].

Laugh out loud moment when we see the spoiler[notes she is making are actually drawing with herself with Tatsumi]. I think that spoiler[drawing of her hugging Tatsumi] is one of the cutest things ever. Also funny on Tatsumi's VN like choices.

Hmm, Akame's blade poisons the blood, and Esdeath has magic blood.

Stark700 wrote:

Ohoho, those dating options.

Of course, NOT an option for some reason:

"Esdeath I think I am attracted to you but if I am going to be your boyfriend we will have to establish some ground rules. First of all I come and go as I please because I am your boyfriend and not a slave or a toy. Second before we sleep together we will go on dates and never discuss politics. Third ..."

... said no anime male EVER. My god the girl is wide open. She is interesting and very up front with her feelings and willing to talk about them. She's rich and high ranked. And she may be crazy but when has that ever stopped a guy from falling in love with a girl?

In some ways Esdeath is a perfect girlfriend for Tatsumi but he is totally blowing it.

Of course, it is true that Esdeath likes to hunt things. In that regard he is doing exactly the right thing: elusive and hard to get. If he just fell at her feet she'd get bored pretty quick.

Again, the show did something interesting with the evolving relationship between Tatsumi and Esdeath. When he thought, spoiler["ah maybe I can convert to her to our cause" I initially rolled my eyes and thought, "why is the show repeating this beat?"] That answer soon became obvious. Unlike virtually all other shonen MCs, Tatsumi is capable of LEARNING. By the end of the encounter, after hearing her backstory, he is spoiler[under no illusions: he'll never be able to turn her.]

I love the fact that the show has put me in an emotional space where I actually want these two crazy kids to make it, even as I understand that it is likely to end very, very badly.

I'm becoming a bit of a broken record, but once again, high praise for AgK!. Episode 14 was a stronger episode than episode 13, mainly because we got a lot of background on Esdeath and we also learned about the shadowy figure who appears to be messing with Esdeath and her crew. It was a similar character development episode, but there was also a decent amount of action with Tatsumi and Esdeath teaming up to take down various danger beasts on that secluded island.

I think the best part of Esdeath's development is that spoiler[she's not played off as a "prize" of the MC or something that he conquer through his boyish charms. Most shounen shows would have a female villain be susceptible to the male hero's "powers of persuasion," and I think many of us have at times suspected that AgK! might follow a similar path.] However, AgK! has taken a radically different course than most (perhaps the vast majority of) male wish-fulfillment shounen shows spoiler[by presenting us with a female villain who is more or less invulnerable to mental or emotional domination.]

Tatsumi (along with the audience) have come to the realization that spoiler[Esdeath essentially possesses the strongest will of anyone in the country. She cannot be broken, even by demonic blood. And not just that, she is cruel and does terrible things because it is in her nature and her personal code, not because she is "misunderstood" like most anime villains.] I was watching a video commentary on this episode where the person commentating had a pretty funny line about this aspect of her - he said Esdeath is so unbreakable that there could be demonic voices screaming in her head to kill, murder and slaughter and she would be saying back to them "I already know that!!! mother#$%@&#s!"

I find her character incredibly intriguing. Some people in the forum have complained about how she doesn't represent the almost universal anime villain trope - the "misunderstood" bad guy who we should feel sympathy for, because they were driven to crime or evil by unfortunate circumstances. I think most anime viewers have gotten comfortable with that type of villain. I would guess that like 80 or 90% of anime these days uses villains of that type. I'm not totally sure why, but Japanese writers seem very very obsessed with these "gray area" villains who have a sob story that we need to give them sympathy for. Mogamet from Magi has been brought up previously, and he is pretty much the very essence of that villain type. (For the record, I really enjoyed Magi, but I am still not able to really buy into Mogamet's sob story, as sad as it was).

It was really great though how, in another moment of self-awareness (something this show does so well), spoiler[even Tatsumi acknowledged the prevalence of this "sympathetic villain" type during the episode. It was after he learned about Esdeath's past and her demon blood imperial arms. He was trying to justify her evil by encouraging her to tell him she did the things she did to get revenge for the murder of her father and her village. He wanted to believe that she was just misunderstood. But she wouldn't give him (or us) that, and Tatsumi was forced to realize the truth. Esdeath is not "misunderstood." Her will is as dark as night and she won't bend to his shounen hero naivete.]

In that moment, AgK! massively bucked the norm. spoiler[I know Leatherhead (and others who want a conventional, "misunderstood" anime villain) won't like it, but AgK! has told us loud and clear that it is charting a radically different course.]

Notwithstanding all of that, it is still clear that Esdeath has a great deal of complexity to her. She may be evil, but as I said before, she is a very human type of evil, with all of the attachments, needs and social abilities of a normal human. I think she really does love Tatsumi. I also think she really does care about her subordinates. This is a very tempting kind of evil. If you are among her cherished people, you are probably safe and could have a good life, including your friends and family. We've seen that demonstrated explicitly with Bols, and Esdeath offered the same to Tatsumi. She said she could save his entire village. I think she was completely sincere. We also saw how Bulat's mentor was turned by this powerful temptation. It's a kind of evil temptation that doesn't lie.

Esdeath simply isn't the type of mindless villain that some want to write her off as. In addition to all of her power and social needs and desires, she is incredibly smart. She gives away all of her reward money to her grunt troops because she knows it will increase their devotion to her. She is a clever and brutally efficient tactician.

I think Esdeath could have an entire side story devoted to her as the main protagonist, and it would be compelling stuff, even with her as a villain protagonist. It's pretty amazing really that spoiler[Tatsumi has been able to learn enough to both withstand Esdeath's temptation and recognize that he can't redeem her. I suppose it makes him an even more exceptional character.] I, for one, hope that AgK! continues to take us off the usual shounen course like this. The show is doing a lot of different and really cool things. Maybe eventually some of its critics will start to recognize that.

One thing I wonder is how reliable Esdeath in delineating her own nature? To use the example you cite - spoiler[when she claims that burying hundreds of thousands of people alive from the northern tribe who wiped out her settlement was not an act of revenge] - I wonder if she's being truthful. She claims she would have done it regardless and because she was acting under orders, but I have my doubts.

And hearing her backstory does mitigate her character for me. I mean, what chance does a person have when they grow up in a society where spoiler[your mother is killed and your own father says its because your mom was weak.] I don't think anyone has a chance to come out of an environment like that and be remotely normal.

Blood- wrote:

One thing I wonder is how reliable Esdeath in delineating her own nature? To use the example you cite - spoiler[when she claims that burying hundreds of thousands of people alive from the northern tribe who wiped out her settlement was not an act of revenge] - I wonder if she's being truthful. She claims she would have done it regardless and because she was acting under orders, but I have my doubts.

And hearing her backstory does mitigate her character for me. I mean, what chance does a person have when they grow up in a society where spoiler[your mother is killed and your own father says its because your mom was weak.] I don't think anyone has a chance to come out of an environment like that and be remotely normal.

I do agree that spoiler[the tragedy of her upbringing and the village is sad], but I think that all of that was part of the writer's very clever fake out. I think that was intentionally introduced in a way that was supposed to make spoiler[us (and Tatsumi) think that she could be turned to good, but then Esdeath herself confirms that we are wrong. I don't think she was lying to Tatsumi. She has no reason to lie. (If she really was justified in doing the things she did, what incentive would she have to assuring Tatsumi that she wasn't justified?)] Like I said, I think she is just being completely honest with him. We, like Tatsumi, spoiler[are supposed to hope that she can be redeemed, but this time the author is flipping the script on us and telling us that she won't.]

Well, redeeming Esdeath would require her to change her fundamental beliefs upon which she has built her identity as a person. Effectively, you'd have to convince her that her philosophy was wrong -- I seriously doubt Tatsumi could pull that off (and he does, too). In fact, it's probably impossible or very close to it.

And for me, *that* is what makes it so tragic. It's such a simple philosophy and the world she lives in constantly reinforces it. It's hard to imagine any series of events or circumstances that would provide even a *small* counter-example to her beliefs: this is a craptastic world where even people who might've had good childhoods (like Justice Girl, possibly) are often ground into raving psychopaths. Esdeath doesn't even question what her father taught her, and even if someone was strong enough to beat her, she'd just conclude, like her father, that she was simply not strong enough -- a fatalistic, and ultimately no-win philosophy, because no one can be the strongest all the time.

And I don't think she is consciously lying, either. I'm just wondering how reliable a narrator she is of her own actions on a subconscious level. For example, she claims she spoiler[buried those people alive because she was ordered to do so.] That would seem to indicate that she will follow any and all orders. I'm not sure I really believe that. I wonder, for example, what would happen if she was ordered to torture and kill Tatsumi? Maybe she'd do it unquestioningly, but I have my doubts.

And again, I don't think that learning about her backstory was meant to make us feel sorry for her. Rather, I feel the intention was to make us understand the forces that shaped her current worldview which is, "surviving is proof you are strong, dying is proof you are weak."

Last edited by HaruhiToy on Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Blood- wrote:

I wonder, for example, what would happen if she was ordered to torture and kill Tatsumi? Maybe she'd do it unquestioningly, but I have my doubts.

I agree -- with the doubts. You can take this as a sign of a well-written character. If she existed for real it is probable that she wouldn't know herself.

As for Tatsumi learning that he will never turn Esdeath: I appreciate his ability/willingness to change his mind but I think he has given up too soon.

I dunno. After hearing how she spoiler[snarfed back an entire goblet of demon's blood, a mere taste of which sent other people insane, and basically just politely burped while gaining incredible power] kind of says, "yeah, that whole turning thing ain't gonna happen, my friend."

Well I am sticking to my theory that she is already changing, but not in an easy convenient, redeem the villain sort of thing. Truth is that she has incredible will, so it is highly doubtful she will be able to just be convinced, she is also very loyal and it will take way more than words to have any effect. I think the key indicator will be that she how she went from wanting to impress her father to looking to strong prey, and now back to trying to impress. Surely she could be convinced of different strength, but still hard to see.

I do think the role she has is already sufficient.

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