Forum - View topicLord Marksman and Vanadis (TV).
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zztop
Posts: 646 |
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Just a thought.
In one way, it's Ellen's fault that Alsace is being attacked. If she didn't kill the Brune Prince in battle, the King of Brune wouldn't be too paralysed with grief to stop the nobles from their power plays. And if she didn't kill the Prince, there would be no reason for the Thernadiers to attack Alsace simply to spite their rivals and show everyone who's boss. What does everyone think? |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13229 |
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Honestly the inclusion of such things alone doesn't bother me. Because, and let's not kid ourselves here, spoiler[get a jerk drunk on power alone together with a girl and that's exactly what he's going to do 99% of the time.] This is especially true in fantasy titles where nobles believe their status allows them to do whatever they want.
It was mentioned that those guys were going around attacking places before the prince was killed. His death made things worse, sure, but it was probably inevitable. Even if it wasn't you can hardly hold Elen responsible. As Tigre noted, that's what happens on a battlefield. |
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Plasmaeclipse
 Posts: 153 |
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Oh I have no problem with how it was used it's just the whole invasion felt kinda cliche and that's one of the reasons. The Duke guy was just too stereotypically evil for me to be wholesomely invested in the conflict. I am interested in the overall politics surrounding Brune it's just this particular villain feels more like a cartoonish mid-boss than any serious threat. I wouldn't be surprised if he meets an anti-climactic death by the next episode. |
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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I think I like this anime just for the fact it's doing things very differently from your typical harem show. While MC isn't OP he isn't exactly weak either. He's very skilled with his bow but still has to rely on help from others or he's as good as helpless. He has a very respectable personality. He's kind hearted with a hint of smartass that makes him fun to watch. His newly antiquated silver haired warrior isn't bad either. I had a BAD feeling they were just going to turn her into a moeblob whenever he talked around her but she's pretty nicely balanced between being serious and cute (though I still think it's rather ridiculous for someone let an enemy walk around as they please with no supervision. Don't care how cocky you are about your power. This is anime though so I guess we can let that pass
 ). I thought her making the spoiler[MC surrender his home to her was the most reasonable response we could have gotten from her without making her super unrealistically sympathetic just to add to her appeal.] She's capable of being cold despite her carefree nature. I like it  .
Even so there were a couple eye rolling moments here. Thespoiler[ rapist psycho at work] was a very cringe worthy affair. A person like this certainly isn't new to an ecchi show where showing tits is the main goal no matter how it is achieved but it doesn't make him anymore cheap regardless. We totally didn't see that last minute save coming right? Was I the only one? I don't know maybe it's just me but I'd like to see women being able to win in situations like that instead of ALWAYS having to rely on their knight in shining armor to save them. It's a bit to cliche in my opinion. The spoiler[legendary bow] that will be used when the heroes weapon conveniently breaks was less offensive but I don't think it will make him completely OP or anything like that since we are still early in the game. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13229 |
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If something like that happened to Elen it would be a problem, but we're talking about a maid, not a warrior. You can't expect her to be able to overpower a trained adult male. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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I didn't expect for her to over power him. What COULD have happened was for her to possibly out smart him using the layout of the castle or something to that effect. Let's face it he was in a lumbering "I'm going to slowly chase you state". In my opinion a writer can make a situation like this favorable if they want too.
The issue here is that they just wanted use the typical "girl madly in love with the MC gets saved by him at the last second". So horribly uninteresting to watch. Haven't we seen that shit like a billion times already? It has nothing to do with portraying the situation realistically it's matter of exploiting the same trope we've over and over for cheap development. The situation doesn't HAVE to always play out like this. And I'm just getting sick of seeing people write the same scenario time and time again without attempting to at least add a bit of variety to the situation. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18195 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Was the scene a cliche as written? Yes.
Would the scene have been any less of a cliche had she turned out to have serious fighting skills? No. (It's not like the "warrior maid" hasn't become its own cliche over the past decade.) In fact, it would have been worse since nothing in the flashback suggested tat she had any training to that effect. Trying to wear him out by having him chase her down all over the house only works if one assumes that Threnardier isn't in fit shape and wouldn't eventually get tired of lumbering after her and make a more determined effort. From a practical storytelling standpoint, it also would have taken up too much time to depict in detail. From a narrative standpoint, Titta is his servant, so it is his responsibility as a noble lord to protect/rescue, and it's not like the Vanadis are likely to need rescuing. Give him his chance to be heroic; there are other female characters in the story to be capable bad-asses. Found the scene with Tigre's hair rather funny. And I did like the deal that was struck about protecting Alsace; it was the only option that made logical sense, so I was hoping it would go that way. (It also lessens the "I'm mooning over Tigre" semblance on Elen's part.) One random thing that bugged me, though (and this is a minor beef I've had with a lot of fantasy series over the past few years, not just this one): spoiler[When Tiitta gets her clothes cut by the Threnardier jerk, she's shown wearing modern-style bra and panties. Seems awfully anachronistic, even more so than the maid outfit, given the clothing styles otherwise seen in the series.] I'm still not too impressed with the artistic effort on this one, but I like enough of what I've seen that it probably makes the cut for my watch list this season. |
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Plasmaeclipse
Posts: 153 |
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I would actually prefer they spend more time on harem antics honestly (and I normally hate those moments). So far the character writing has been far more compelling and I feel like there are plenty of nice touches in the way Tigre, Elen and Lim talk and act that inform their characters quite nicely. The actual plot so far is riddled with cliches and I can call it in my sleep. Next episode we will likely see Tigre spoiler[unleash the powers of his super awesome black bow and then totally annihilate the 2 dragons evil lords duke guy brought (he's so boring I haven't bothered learning his name), or if the bow has no inherent power of it's own it will somehow either power up Elen's magic sword or draw power from it]
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Your right. We totally need a token helpless love interest for the hero to save right? Nobody said she had to have serious fighting skills. In fact I'm pretty damn sure I said that in my last comment which you seemed to miss.
He's a cartoonish villain Key. Do you really think him lumbering around all "I'M GONNA GET YOU!" like is out of the question? I've seen such a scene in "Chaika the Coffin Princess" as well. The guy in that show slowly chases his opponents while they found out a way to defeat him. That's not to say it didn't make me cringe a bit but such a scene can work if used correctly. Now yes there is an obvious difference here. The maid doesn't have any special powers or talents that would make her a full fledged warrior. But would it hurt to make her smart? To have her perhaps think of different ways to stall the guy? Do we REALLY have to watch this recycled scenario of the helpless girl making futile attempts to stop the cartoonish villain until she is saved at the last second? In all honesty I'm not against the saving part. It's just the fact we I could have skipped the whole scene and wrote it off as "Oh boy got another rapist chasing a girl again. Nothing to see here". 
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13229 |
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At least she did try to fight back with a knife.
I understand where you're coming from. You're tired of the cliche. However the inclusion of the cliche in this case is appropriate given the context of the narrative. It would be another matter if a pre-established aspect is ignored for the sake of forcing the cliche in there (such as it would be if Elen was in trouble). |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18195 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I think my post made it pretty damned clear that I had read what you wrote (the comment about the lumbering were pretty specifically in response to your post, right?) - hell, I even totally rewrote what I was originally going to post after seeing yours. And I'm pretty sure you're entirely ignoring one of the main points that I made, too (i.e., about there not being time for what you were asking for in the scene). So if I'm "missing" something then I'm not the only one here doing that, friend. So simmer down. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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Yeah, I kind of wish the whole chasing her around the castle thing, along with the reason she was staying there (unreasonable and blind dedication) was kind of dumb. Same with the main character, trying to go and fight an army alone. I think that kind of character motivation isn't very interesting.
The first thing I though when I saw her with the black bow was 'oh, too bad you don't have any arrows for that bow, because then this could get pretty cool.' Oh well. On balance I'm still on board. This seems pretty cool. I suspect the black family bow will have some kind of magical aspect, like the wind sword. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15466 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Episode 2
I had no problems with the crazy guy doing what he did. He was obviously a power mad noble who was spoiler[looking forward to pillaging the land, raping and pillaging go hand in hand]. To look at another side, I am rather impressed they were able to show that he had enough spoiler[restraint not to attack the temple], it makes sense but fiction often likes to go the extra mile. The whole spoiler[pillaging thing] had already been established, it makes sense that we would see something bad look to happen, they already had spoiler[most of the people safe]. It really is not a problem how it went. It would seem his house has three big followers, one lead the people outside, one went for their master, and she a devout servant, waited. It is not like he actually had a castlespoiler[ for a maid to use her knowledge of to escape, it seemed more of a simple designed estate, on the level of the lord of a not too large plot of land]. Sometimes the damsel can be saved without having to rewrite an entire genre. I don't think the show is being sexist in saying woman are weak, there are at least two very strong women in this series, and actually showing some sensible weakness does show it as beyond being a warrior women fantasy. Although at the same time I have subscribed to some opinions about there being a problem in things like the videogame industry where women are treated like prizes to be won as part of male fantasy. I do think it could have done with some period acceptable undergarments instead of the same we see in most anime, but in general I don't think her character was too bad. At least they did not play up her embarrassment at being seen by her master, I think that is a plus. |
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kgw
 Posts: 1066 Location: Spain, EU |
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I am more pissed for having the maid (19th century-dressed in a Middle Age setting)spoiler[ staying in the mansion so she can be almost raped by the evil noble. I mean, even Tigre care a lot more about her than the house. And she could've took the bow to the temple.]
In fact, the whole invasion seem a little bit off: spoiler[they sent a 3000 soldiers' force (with two dragons) against a little, impoverished and faraway county whose lord is not their enemy.] It's too big a threat to let it go, and they have nothing to gain and too much to lose, because the lesson the other, more powerful nobles can take is "The House of Thenardier is mad, let's ally with the other side". If Thenardier wanted spoiler[to combat-test his dragons,] took them to Brune, pretending to rescue Tigre and avenging the Prince... while sending a little force to Alsace "to keep the peace while his lord is away", securing it into his hands. Yeah, it's a LN, but when you play the writing game, you win or you die. :p |
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WhiteHairGirls
 Posts: 4713 Location: New York City |
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Wait... The noble commander is injured in the balcony of the house, but they ignore him in the end when he can't escape and go march on to battle. What?
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