Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: CROSS ANGE Rondo of Angel and Dragon
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Rogueywon
Posts: 252 |
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One thing this latest ep did confirm for me - which I've been suspecting for a while - is that this show is making a lot of subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) links to one particularly fun bit of Sunrise history.
Lots of people have made SEED/Destiny comparisons, but I think that's largely a red herring based on the design of the Vilkiss. The show I think this is echoing did, however, air in parallel with the first half of SEED Destiny - My-HiME. Not all that well remembered today (I think the half-baked semi-sequel My-Otome soured a lot of memories of it), it's still one of my favorite all-time Sunrise shows - and clearly some people in Sunrise still remember it. The fun thing with My-HiME and SEED Destiny is that with them airing in parallel, Sunrise had fun (or possibly just saved money) by having lots of little bits of near-identical animation between the two - often within eps that aired in the same week. The visual design for Aura in the latest ep (particularly the head, neck and mouth) are very similar to My-HiME's Kagutsuchi, and the animations are nigh-identical. We've also seen animation similarities in ep 13, where the red Vilkiss attacks the naval armada (a scene My-HiME and SEED Destiny did in parallel pretty much in the same week, but Cross Ange's version looks more like My-HiME's). Lots of thematic similarities as well - a strong (and sometimes unlikeable, often frustrating) female main character who has occasional "let the world burn" thoughts and unsubtle yuri overtones (despite the lead character being straight). Until the latest ep, there was at least a chance this was all coincidence; but the Aura/Kagutsuchi animation similarities seem to put it beyond that realm. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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I thought it reasonably amusing in spite of being pretty predictable. If anyone wants to accuse CA of pandering to certain male fantasies of unlimited female attention this episode gave them all the ammunition they need. Another good review -- I find it remarkable how Theron is able to handle the subject without falling into the quagmire of some viewers' umbrage over these topics. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18210 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I don't think My-HiME is quite as forgotten as you believe. There's just been nothing concerning the franchise to talk about since the last My-Otome OVA came out four years ago. While your details about the My-HiME/Destiny comparisons are quite interesting, I am having a hard time seeing the My-HiME/CA parallels beyond the Kagutsuchi comparison - and I'm saying that as someone who has rewatched the series several times over the years. I think you're stretching to claim anything more than a one-shot allusion. |
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zztop
Posts: 646 |
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"Do you swallow?"
"Only when surprised." Seems fitting for today's episode... |
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2403 |
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Most people don't feel rage at SEED or Destiny. They're both well liked and consistently poll well. There are just some pretty vocal english speaking ragers against them. Though like you, I would also rate Destiny pretty low. As for the examination scene, I thought it was kind of amusing in that they're basically saying they have no double standards. They thought it was totally fine for Ange to get sexually assaulted in ep 2, and they thought it was totally fine for Tusk to get sexually assaulted in this episode. So I didn't really have any problem with the scene. Tusk being seemingly alright around Ange afterwards doesn't seem that off when you consider Ange was completely nude when he face planted into her crotch and Ange didn't have much of a lasting reaction. Granted it seems like this time was more than just that, but he could also just be putting up a better front and staying near her despite that because he still sees himself as her knight. I'm also not sure Ange is actually mad at him. I think she is just mad at the situation and taking it out on him by giving him a hard time, and really, isn't that what Ange has done with him multiple times before? @Rougeywon I'm so glad you mentioned Mai-Hime. I thought that Aura looked really familiar, but I couldn't place it. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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After being humiliated in front of him a number of times -- even though it wasn't his fault and in one case while he was rescuing her -- it must have been quite satisfying for her to turn the tables. Enough so that she jumped in. No she wasn't really mad at him (much). She just did what anime girls almost always do in such situations and act like any male is an inferior being just to get the social upper hand. And he played it the way she wanted so they got to laugh together about it at the end. |
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Mecha Odyssey
 Posts: 38 Location: Brampton, Ontario |
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If you re-read my post, I wasn't truly upset at the show, more so the community. It starts with "What annoys me the most, I was reading the comments attached to the video....." Yes, I wish that scene was done differently and/or Ange's reaction a more mature one. After seeing it the first time, I didn't like it, but I was able to live with it. Then I proceeded to read what people thought about the episode. Of course the vast majority of comments were focused on that scene (very few on the revelations of major plot details). But they were not posts about discomfort about the scene, or about like how now both main characters have been assualted sexually. No, they were laughing at the scene, cheering Tusk on, making jokes about the line from the Doctor "sex education". Reading people's words online made me feel sick to my stomach and I honestly felt uneasy the rest of the day. When the show started people either loved or absolutely hated the show to the point where it sounded like people calling for blood. People were accusing people that liked this show many of rude things that I won't repeat. Now, the same, one can argue, worse experience happens to a male..... and it's all good, comedy central, have a laugh. The key difference in the two events though, this scene serves no purpose. Tusk's character (nor Ange) doesn't seem to be affected by the experience and it seems like things will "reset" next episode (I'm hoping things don't reset and they do bring it back up). Whereas the hurdles Ange went through actually served to help grow her character. That's why I said that I would have preferred if Ange stepped up to defend him and not fall into the anime girl trope as then the scene would be justified and Ange would show another step to maturity. Yes, at the end they did share a laugh at the moment, but that seems very unnatural. So Tusk at the end of the episode: "OH, I just got violated, and a crowd of women who then watched me climax into my girlfriend's mouth (and shared our first sexual moment) in public, but you know, I'm cool." Ange at the end of the episode: "My boyfriend just got violated by a group of sexually curious females and IT'S TOTALLY HIS FAULT FOR LETTING IT HAPPEN!, He's a jerk!" Sounds like victim blaming to me. Plus the fact that the community at large seems to be accepting and fine with it, just makes me sad at this point. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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If this sort of thing (both of the above) upsets you to the point where you pound out as many words as you do on the topic, I suspect you really shouldn't have anime as a hobby. Or at least restrict yourself to PG anime. BTW I just noticed you have a low post-count -- welcome to the forums. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18210 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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On a rewatch I just realized something: the bodyguard who was Ange's brother's winged lover was named Riza Randog. Riza = Liza = Lizard and Randog is an anagram for "dragon." Really should have picked up on that earlier, although I don't know that her full name was ever given before this episode.
As for the Tusk thing, unfortunately the people whom I think would be most interesting to see weigh in on that scene - i.e., the people who were so overwhelmingly critical of the key scenes in the first two episodes - aren't probably watching anymore. Would they be equally as incensed by that scene? I'm not even going to hazard a guess since I apparently don't have a good sense at all for what others are or are not going to find offensive. (Been very wrong both ways within recent memory.) However, I think the reason many don't find it offensive (or at least as offensive) is that it is played both for comedy and as a male fantasy rather than as a degradation scene. |
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Mecha Odyssey
Posts: 38 Location: Brampton, Ontario |
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Honestly that's kind of rude. I've been actively watching anime for over 25 years now and watched many differing genres ranging across the spectrum of ratings from Samurai Pizza Cats to Ninja Scroll. I provided my critical analysis of a scene that disturbed me and how the community is reacting to it. Yet rather than consider where I am coming from, my words are simply dismissed. I like this series, and because I do, I am critical of it.
I agree, I too would like to know what those who were critical at the start and as you said have most likely stopped watching would think of this scene. I would say this situation has been stereotyped by the media at large as a male fantasy, since (mainly straight) males are raised to believe that they have to "talk up" their sexual experiences and such a situation would demonstrate that they are an alpha male due to their desirability. I wonder though, if they knew they wouldn't be judged, how many men would actually say they would want a harem or would they admit that they actually prefer, simply, a meaningful monogamous relationship? This can also bee seen as a degradation scene, not just physically, but socially due to how all parties are portrayed. Now I'm not going to press the issue over this scene further, let's just wait for next weeks episode. P.S. Good call catching the meaning in Riza's name. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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IMO people would not think that scene in episode 15 would have felt bothered. Why? Because Fukuda has been playing us like a fiddle! The scene where Angelisse arrives to Arzenal was supposed to be gruesome, a fall from grace from the immaculate princess. But what does truly happened? There was a thunderstorm outside, making many viewers feel uneasy. Then there was a surprise surgical operation that was over in mere seconds. No doubt she felt pain, but the pain was not present after the operation, objectively speaking many visits to the dentist are more stressing and painful. Similarly what happened to Tusk could be really terrifying, since Ange is not above using brute force when your name is Tusk and it is up to our imaginations how long (seconds? minutes?) were required for her to feel he was adequately punished. But everybody was smiling, the room was well lit and the background music probably lightened the mood (albeit I do not remember if there was any). |
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Izanagi009
 Posts: 464 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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I want to weigh in on that scene but I have lost all energy for this series. With the first two episodes, the show was new and I was gauging expectations to reality and finding myself really pissed off. Here, I just can't care. The whole show feels like it throws everything at the wall for shock and awe and this is just one of those moments. I cringed during the jokes involving the sexual tension between Ange and Tusk since they sound more in place with a harem show set in a school instead of a transport scene to an enemy location. The same reaction was present with Tusk's examination. When I heard "Tusk was being examined", I was pretty much expecting it to happen; the direction they took was more extreme than I expected but disgust was not my reaction, just frustration that they would stoop to that level of comedy. I will be the first to admit comedy is extremely hard for me to understand but the setup was telegraphed a mile away and the punchline was so over the top and idiotic that I cringed. |
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Izanagi009
Posts: 464 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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Well, given the fact that Fukuda apparently let his wife write Seed Destiny to spite a voice actress (someone else's words, not mine so take with a heap of salt), I'm pretty sure that he's been screwing with us for a long time. As for the musical and visual framing of the shots vs the impact, I don't think Fukuda has anything to do with it but the director, Yoshiharu Ashino, definably doesn't know anything about cinematic language and the show has a very jarring tone as a result. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18210 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Really? Can you go into more detail about what you consider to be signs of the "jarring tone?" While this has hardly been the most gracefully-made series and definitely has some rough edges, I've never felt that the tone shifted much.
(And to be clear, I'm meaning this in a genuine "I'm curious" sense than an accusatorial sense.) |
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Izanagi009
Posts: 464 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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Perhaps jarring is not the right word but I'm a bit sensitive to tonal shifts. Episodes 1-3 had a dark and isolated tone then Chris and Rosalie came in and started doing pranks that wouldn't seem out of place in a mean girl movie. After that, we have sexual antics with Tusk before heading into hand to hand with a Dragon. Momoka then entered and we got over the top maid antics, then a serious tone as we hear the sister call for help punctuated by a festival. The shifts is more episode to episode than within each episode like Akame ga Kill, but the show seems to want to have both goofball lesbian and sex antics (Tusk, the scenes in the baths, the festival), and serious moments (Embryo's emergence, the truth of Mana, Ange's "rescue" of her sister). I will admit that the tone is much more consistent now with a more serious tone but I would rather not have Ange making remarks about Tusk being frustrated sexually when you are being carried to a location full of people that have been your enemies and can easily kill you. Kind of ruins the tension of prisoners in an enemy base. |
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