Forum - View topicWhat is the proper way to kill off a character in your opinion?
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
|
||
|
Anime deaths are quite a heart wrenching ordeal if done correctly.
Killing off a well established and loved character is not only hard on the audience but probably on the writer as well. Even an amateur writer like myself has a hard time killing off people D: But something that's bothered me recently is when I see characters introduced for roughly one or many two episodes only for them to end up dead before we even began to care about them. That's always something I've found to be particularly cheap. And I'm sure we've all seen examples of this type of death. Someone finally gets close to the main character only for them to be killed instantly once their use is over. It isn't a very appealing formula. That's not to say I think characters need to be around for like half the series before they are killed off. But there needs to be some sign of proper characterization before making them kick the bucket in my opinion. Did this character simply die in order make a heel turn development for the main character or did their death have some other kind of purpose in the story? Attack on Titan is well known for killing off a large chunk of it's cast but there I wasn't nearly bothered as much by it. I always felt like the constant theme of "Mankind is in an utterly losing battle" and the characters pointing out how pointless the sheer amount of deaths are makes it less offensive. It shows self acknowledgement. To summarize I've simply never liked a character death only resulting in heavy handed character development and nothing more. An anime death is sacred to me. Sacred DAMN IT! 
Of course I'm not talking about fodder villagers, soldiers, ninjas, thugs etc. Those people are destined to get screwed over 
What are your own views on the matter? 
|
|||
|
|||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
||
|
There's no right or wrong answer to your question.
There's more than one proper way to kill off a character, and there are multiple entirely-legitimate reasons to do so. It's not what method you use but how well you use whatever method you pick that determines whether the death will have the desired impact or not. I've seen great deaths of all types and of all purposes. I've also seen awful and cynically-utilised deaths that just make me so very angry. |
|||
|
|||
|
FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
|
||
|
Context matters, there is a difference between say a show that is about "watching humans die, spectacularly" such as Terra Formars and making death "hurt" the protagonists in a show such as AoT, like any other element in a story it can be done poorly and/or improperly and can weaken if not outright ruin the narrative being told.
|
|||
|
|||
Ghost_Wheel
 Posts: 203 |
|
||
|
See, in the grand scheme of things, death isn't this sacred, mystical vehicle which happens to people only after we've begun to care about them. Death isn't so cheap as to be a vehicle for someone else's development either. It can be unexpected and it can affect people on an emotional level and sometimes even on a practical level. Sometimes you never planned not to have a certain person your life and it throws everything about the plans the characters had into jeopardy. I don't like seeing it as overtly a vehicle of storytelling very much, and I'm not the type to look for "death flags", but if it seems reasonable for a character to die in the situation they're in, I can get behind it as a development.
In my all time favorite show, Geneshaft spoiler[the characters are constantly fighting for their lives and very clearly taking risks in basically every action to climb out of their situation. Sometimes it works out for them, and sometimes there are casualties. They didn't need to die for the sake of a character or the development of the story, they just did. How these people deal with death is one of the major themes of the show, and it never feels cheap when one of them goes down.] I definitely don't want to resurrect the fight that went on over this, but in Aldnoah Zero spoiler[when Rayet had almost successfully killed the Princess halfway through the series, I thought it would have been fantastic if they had actually followed through with that. Everything about Rayet aside, it is entirely reasonable for something random like that to happen in the span of an instant and it would have irrevocably changed their situation. Simply put, no one on the ship planned for it.] I actually liked School Daysspoiler[The guy screws around and screws with a bunch of girls, and the crazy one kills him. Could you call it poetic justice? Maybe, but I don't think that's fair. He rolled the dice on a bunch of people and what happened with Sekai could have just as easily happened with any of the other girls, or not happened at all, and watching it you feel like that is the case. That it's a possible outcome has it's own merit as a story in a way.] It's tough to deal with survivor game type shows because it's in the fine print that a bunch of people are going to die. I don't find my appeal for these comes from the emotional impact of watching them die but the resolve that comes from competing in a truly high stakes situation. Often the game has interesting constraints, and a rather explicit draw at the motivations of the characters often means we get interesting and fleshed out participants. When they die, it feel about the same to me as if they simply lose. They were willing to gamble everything on their goals and in the end they couldn't be met. This too has emotional impact. I could keep going with different types of examples, because thinking about the different ways death can happen tastefully in a show is actually pretty fun, and maybe I'll follow up if this thread keeps up. |
|||
|
|||
|
Animegomaniac
Posts: 4082 |
|
||
|
There's the trope named "anyone can die" which gets misused for works that are actually "Dead protagonist walking"; Characters specifically created to die and have an effect on the real main character {Go Run Lagoon, Code Goose, shows like those, not those shows because they don't exist} or as a sub idea of that one, a character who gets introduced and dies soon after solely for its affect on the main character, seen in Nadesico but the best known use is Uncle Ben and we all know who Uncle Ben is or was.
He was there to say the line {no, he wasn't, that line came from the narrator as moral rather than from the character as moralizing}, no, he was there just to die. But with that character, the audience just needs one or two moments to see their affect on the MC and *wham* dead. Both of these technics are very cheap and effective at controlling both the audience {"Anyone can die! It's so serious!" And if they really are main characters? "... Anyone can Die!" Attack on Titan is pulpy fun but serious it is not.} and the characters {Hey, we took your Uncle, your Aunt could be next! And that worked in that comic franchise for over 40 years. At least in Nadesico, the main character was worried he would be next}. But these are ways not to do it, because the first one starts looking pretty stupid when the main cast is in less danger than the newly introduced rookies {We'll protect you, we'll... no, don't do it! Don't go over there, don't open that door, don't... oh, you did it...} or, Attack on Titan style, main cast members who are useless survive while the pros kill each themselves off stupidly in stupid ways. The second one is an introduction method for the main character {oh yeah, used in Attack on Titan as well} and it looks pretty silly used in the middle of the story {Hey you, it's you, I know you, I like you, oh you!} or worse, when the MC grows attached to someone suddenly for this reason {Claymore, constantly} because by this time, they should know better because their life and world is harsh and brutal. Worse than these ones is the "Let's kill them all" way like Wolf's Rain. No sense getting into the details how this is wrong. Proper ways: It's the emotional reaction you want so it doesn't have to have a reason but it needs to have an intelligent foundation, even if it's to show how meaningless it was. This is the reason I will always rate Kanon 2006 over Clannad as spoiler[Makoto's situation] was spelled out and used throughout the entire series {despite certain critics complaining about it, there's a reason Yuichi experienced the one he couldn't save first and he spends the rest of the series in a spiraling descent into despair and misery, to the point of spoiler[suicide] because of it} where in Clannad, it happened spoiler[twice] because that's what happened in Kanon and the reason? It's what happens to sick girls in these things. And it happens at the end of the series spoiler[with a big old reset button included somehow]. Way to undercut your own drama. A meaningless death for an important character. What a coincidence, I happen to be rewatching Sotly Rei at the moment and this would seem to describe spoiler[Sylvia's death] more than anything. Probably not the best example but it does have an effect on the rest of the series. Worse "meaningless" example of all time: Macross. Not only does the creative team kill off 40% percent of the main cast in the last few minutes, it doesn't even register on the main cast because they feel it's the best time to work out their love triangle. Do not do it this way, ever. Everything else depends on the viewer. |
|||
|
|||
marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
|
||
|
There really isn't any one right answer, as others have pointed out. I think the main thing is for the death to serve a purpose and, ideally, for the audience to have a chance to care about the character in question. Also having other characters care about the killed character is good, to make the death have more meaning (though it shouldn't be done soley to develop said other characters, or you end up nearing Women in Refridgerators territory).
The one other thing I can think of is that if you're going to have multiple deaths, you're going to have to put in extra effort to keep the audience from just disengaging and going "another one bites the dust" when someone new dies. The best two anime I've seen at dealing with this would be Wolf's Rain and X-TV. Actually, CLAMP in general seem to be very good at handling large casts that are obviously not going to make it all the way to the end (RG Veda also comes to mind). Something like Attack on Titan could actually do the death thing in general more often, because of the world it is set in, but major character deaths don't actually occur that often. Also, it's important to keep in mind how the story is going to continue without said character, because sometimes the character can end up taking the plot down with it (I'm looking at you, Death Note). |
|||
|
|||
walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
|
||
|
I don't even see why anyone would bring up Shingeki no Kyojin. What important characters have died? Sure the show peppers the deaths of dozens of no-named or once-named inconsequential characters throughout, but that only serves to the purpose of making the viewer think the protagonists could get it. That's literally the same thing as showing all of the extras getting vaporized when Tom Cruise is running from the Tripod in WotW, it brings tension and suspense but after a while you realize those protagonists are never in mortal danger.
|
|||
|
|||
|
FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
|
||
For the most part you are correct, MOST of the deaths in AoT are of inconsequential characters, that said there is still the exception with the death of spoiler[Levi's squad]the difference is that those characters had as much screen time as any of the other secondary cast members at that point, yes they raised a ton of "death flags" with there appearance but just as well the set up puts into motion why even Eren gets effected over there deaths than say the dozens of other non established soldiers that are killed moments before. AoT does a mass of "weak deaths" in regards to throwing out rookie soldiers to be sacrificial lambs for animated gore, but just as well the same show can throw out a contextually worthwhile death. |
|||
|
|||
DJStarstryker
 Posts: 140 |
|
||
|
Well... Attack on Titan only killed off secondary characters. Sure, they got some development, but for the most part they were Red Shirts. They were characters that pretty much existed to eventually get killed off. The only one that was surprising to me was spoiler[the fake Eren death, where he got eaten by the titan and the show made it seem like he was dead... until the next episode where they pulled a deux ex machina and made him turn into a titan. I feel like if they had made him actually die, the show would've felt more surprising.]
Anime has very few main character deaths. Main characters generally either just don't die or they are resurrected. I think a main character dying - actually dying and not coming back - that's the first step in the right direction of having deaths that mean something in anime. |
|||
|
|||
|
Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
|
||
|
You guys forgot about spoiler[Marco]. I can think of two major reasons why the show killed him off:
1. To kick-start Jean's character development. 2. As a plot point for the Female Titan arc. Now, to contribute to the topic, I can offer the most obvious advice when killing off a character; be sure that said character's death has an impact, whether it be in terms of theme, plot, or other character development. Since we're all providing examples, I will add my own. Spoilers for Puella Magi Madoka Magica below! spoiler[Mami Tomoe existed primarily to die. Now, if it were in the hands of a bad writer, Mami would be killed, and then never mentioned again. Luckily, Gen Urobuchi knew exactly what he was doing in this case. Mami's horrific death has a major impact, both short-term (the mourning scene and beyond from Episode 4) and long-term (Sayaka and Kyoko's arcs). Concerning her death itself, if this scene were in the hands of a bad writer, it would have been overly gory and focused too much on the bloodshed and violence. There is only one shot of blood, and that's after Homura kills off Charlotte, and it's mostly to establish that yes, Mami is gone. Her decapitation is portrayed with her head being bitten off screen, with only a brief focus on her hanging corpse.] Few, that there's a lot of words. |
|||
|
|||
Kruszer
 Posts: 7983 Location: Minnesota, USA |
|
||
|
Character death should be infrequent but impactful.
Last edited by Kruszer on Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|||
|
|||
Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9841 Location: Virginia |
|
||
|
On screen, slowly with much screaming and blood. If you are going to do something disgusting you might as well make it an event.
I prefer to avoid such shows, myself. |
|||
|
|||
Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
|
||
|
How death is treated and done depends completely on the series, and what is needed for the series. Sometimes, a series needs that "anyone can die at any time" vibe.
It's interesting that Urobuchi was brought up, because in Kamen Rider Gaim, a large number of characters were killed off, and many for different reasons. Let's look at each one. Obviously, there are going to be major spoilers. I will be noting which episode the death is revealed in, since a few are kept hidden for a while. These are also only major/important characters, as there are quite a few civilian deaths. Episode 14(a): spoiler[Hase] spoiler[Hase's death was significant, not only as being the first (known) death, but also because we first-hand see the danger of Helheim's fruits. Furthermore, it solidified that, while the Armored Riders were pretty much working together trying to save people, the New Generation Riders have their own agenda, and they're not going to go out of their way to save people... or try to save them at all, perhaps. Furthermore, we're brought up the question: is it possible to save someone who's been turned into an Invess. We're also heavily hinted that the worker from a few episodes earlier, who'd been tempted by the fruit, had indeed become an Invess. Furthermore, though Kouta tells most of the others what happened, Jonouchi, Hase's closest friend, is never told, and in the ending is shown to still be looking for him. It's debatable if he's in denial or not.] Episode 14(b): spoiler[Yuya] spoiler[As with the above, we have the first actual death in the series revealed as well, Yuya, the missing leader of Team Gaim. The Byakuya Invess, the Invess that Kouta defeated in the first episode, was revealed to be Yuya. However, only Mitsuzane knows at this point, and he purposefully keeps it a secret from Kouta and Mai, because of how the knowledge would affect them. When they eventually find out, Kouta is devastated that he killed his close friend, even if it was in self defense, and that he didn't know it was him.] Episode 31: spoiler[Lock Dealer Sid] spoiler[Lock Dealer Sid, the one who committed the first "murder" in the series, and somewhat one of the "villains" of the series, is unceremoniously smashed between two giant rock walls, to show off Rosyuo's power. It wasn't necessarily "important" to kill him, but there wasn't much more that could be done with his character.] Episode 32: spoiler[Demushu] spoiler[This one is an expected death, as Demushu is one of the "enemy generals", who always get offed in these kind of shows. As is common for Kamen Rider series, enemy generals are killed off to show off the new power-up of the main rider, in this case Kouta's Kiwami Arms, his most powerful form.] Episode 41(a): spoiler[Rosyuo] spoiler[Another expected death, the king of the "enemies" had to die, and the fact that it happened after he'd pretty much just handed our two main "heroes" their asses and wiped the floor with them was done for shock value, but also because we're coming up into the "finale" of the series, and for his power to be passed on, he had to die.] Episode 41(b): spoiler[Redyue] spoiler[As the last "enemy general", it was inevitable that he wouldn't be lasting much longer, to make room for the final battle. That he bit it by a pissed off Kouta, who showed that he had grown above a normal human's power, reforming his Lockseed, and then picking up Rosyuo's weapon and getting revenge for him on Redyue, who'd been playing all sides for a while was very satisfying.] Episode 43(a): spoiler[Mai] spoiler[Well, "dead" in a manner of speaking, that is. Mai hadn't been doing well for the past few episodes, due to hosting the Golden Fruit, but it was Ryoma removing the Golden Fruit forcibly that killed her. Given, however, that we know that the previous host of the Golden Fruit, Rosyuo's wife, had also died, this may have been an inevitability.] Episode 43(b): spoiler[Sengoku Ryoma] spoiler[As the (arguably) "evil mastermind" behind much of the series, it was another inevitability that he would die. That he was killed at the climax, right after he a) killed Mai to get the Golden Fruit, b) failed to obtain the Golden Fruit, and c) revealed that he had a "kill switch" to instantly stop any of the other riders, and was then killed by one of these supposedly "powerless" riders he'd just "defeated", made it a bit of poetic justice.] Episode 45: spoiler[Yoko Minato] spoiler[A lot of fans are torn on this one, much of it because female riders often don't make it through the series. Another because it really wasn't needed. With Kaito set to be the "final boss" at this point, his own former teammate tries to blow him up, and Minato is killed pushing Kaito out of the way. She could have easily survived, if injured and taken out of action for the rest of the series.] Episode 46: spoiler[Kaito] spoiler[The "final boss" of the series, it was clear that either he or Kouta had to die. From the beginning, they had two very different opinions on what should be done, and it was always going to come down to one fighting the other.]. In addition to those, you have a number of characters who had been thought to be dead, who weren't. spoiler[Kureshima Takatora] spoiler[Not only was he believed to have been killed, by his own brother, no less, but his "ghost" was also haunting Mitsuzane. Mitsuzane had felt that his brother had been holding him back, and had to get rid of him. This was also the "point of no return" in Mitsuzane's descent into darkness, and the start of his loss of sanity. In the end, it was only by "divine grace" that he was able to wake up from the coma he'd been in for the latter portion of the series.] spoiler[Zack] spoiler[Easily, he could have been killed in Kaito's revenge for Minato's death, but he managed to survive. Regardless, like could have been done with Minato, he was taken out of action for the rest of the series, and was on crutches still during the aftermath of the final battle.] spoiler[Kaito] spoiler[Everyone knew this one couldn't stick, because he's the title character, but allowing himself to be stabbed so that he could destroy the Lockseed that was draining Mitsuzane's life, even after Mitsuzane had tried to kill him multiple times, solidified Kouta's position that he was going to save everyone, no matter what. It also further solidified that he was not fully human anymore, as there's no way he should have been able to survive that.] Furthermore, two characters had multiple "death flags" thrown up, and many opportunities for them to be killed, but, somehow, spoiler[Oren] and spoiler[Jonouchi] managed to survive to the end. With the exceptions of spoiler[Sid], spoiler[Demushu], spoiler[Redyue] (who were all villains expected to die at some point or another), and, to a lesser extend, spoiler[Roshuo], all of the deaths in the series had fallout continuing through much of the series. Urobuchi very much made them feel "real", even spoiler[Yuya], and that their deaths mattered, in a world where the survival of the entire human race was at stake and anyone could die. |
|||
|
|||
|
Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
|
||
|
no wrong way to die just like real life. A character can die by just walking to school, then hit by a car. it's because that's real life. It's all about what happen after the character dies. Example, Cross Game, Major..
|
|||
|
|||
|
Animegomaniac
Posts: 4082 |
|
||
|
[EDIT: Mocking people is not cool. -TK]
|
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group