Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-11-03]
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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The word is "progressive". "Progressist" is not a word. And if you don't live here, which you have stated you do not, then I sincerely doubt your ability to actually judge the social climate here in terms of race. |
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Wandering Knight
 Posts: 94 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina |
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Ok, I mistaked the word, in Spanish it's "progresista", which I thought probably translated to progressist...
BUT! Like I said, we're practically BOMBARDED by your culture. Culture depicting your usual way of life. Television, for example. But that's not the only case. And you didn't answer correctly to my statement, you just grabbed onto a word I said and then accused me of ignorance of facts. But there's no ignorance of facts behind Bush's reelection, right? And behind the fact that Republicans are extremely right-wing conservatives? Do I actually need to live there to know that? You're not the center of the world. There's a lot of ways to know what goes on in your country without even having to visit it. Heck, I'm currently using one of them. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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You're making the unfortunate mistake, however, of associating the common American society with its government, which are two ENTIRELY different things. By popular vote, Bush was re-elected by 50.9% of the population, which means the other 49.1% wanted him out of office. At least 10% of Americans are agnostic or atheist. Issues such as gay marriage, stem cell research, womens' right to choose, etc--are split pretty much down the middle. You really DO have to live here in order to experience the vast differences of opinion in this country, those opinions that don't get a lot of exposure in the world news. Currently, the American people in power are close-minded, racist right-wingers, but at least half of the American population is much more tolerant.
Ha! That's a good one. |
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Wandering Knight
Posts: 94 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina |
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So 50% of the population of your country are closed-minded, racist right-wingers? Why don't the other 50% do something about it, then?
We have a saying here, in Argentina: "He who keeps silent, clears the way". Unfortunately, most of that 50% who is not a racist right-winger is keeping silent, clearing the way for the 50% that IS a racist right-winger. Should it have been otherwise, I repeat, Bush Jr would have lost his reelection. I clear again, don't let your boastful national pride get over your mind. Analyse your own society in a critical light, as I do with my own country. I'm not about to let out a dissertion on Argentinian society, but darn I don't approve the average conduct of people over here. I repeat, don't let your nationalism get over yourselves. You should try to analyse your own society at every opportunity you have, criticise it, and accept yourself as a part of it, even if your way of thinking is completely opposite. Sometimes reality is harsh, but you have to accept it, or you won't move on. PD: Oh, and what I stated above relates to the fact that a lot of people in your country doesn't vote because they don't want. I can't remember the exact percentage of non-voting americans in last elections, but it was relatively high. Oh, and television is certainly a true reflection of a society's mentality. Maybe it doesn't reflect the reality, pure and objective, but you can analyse its content according to the type of people who consume it. Think about it: Television is a business. It needs to sell, therefore it needs people who want to consume it. Maybe you don't swallow that shit, but most people do (if not, it wouldn't be on TV in the first place). If people consume shit TV, they probably think shit, too. It's not too hard to make a conclusion out of it. |
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busyyuu
Posts: 5 |
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Hey Gage, we still have Nazi's up here too. We had them in Madison, WI a couple months back in a protest at the capital, sadly enough.
Doesn't make any sense? I thought I made it very clear that I am under presumptions based on historical fact and cultural trend that Japan has a long history of discriminatory problems but is slowly getting better as international relations improve. I don't see how I'm logically unsound considering I'm stating factual trends, and I certainly have not disagreed with everything both you and others have said. Why are you so upset with me anyways? I'm obviously saying things you don't agree with. Why don't you correct me instead of simply saying that I'm spewing anecdotes and not making any sense. Or just don't respond to me if I agitate you that much. Nobody else seems to be getting so uptight about what I'm saying. As for not understanding American racial social climate outside America, I have to agree with Wandering Knight. Hey, I'm not a Canadian, but I still know that non-asian citizens panicked and said stupid things like they should deport all asians when SARS came around, even nationals who were born there. I know that there is the term "ABC" ("American Born Chinese") in China (as well as Taiwan and HK) that is tossed around quite casually, and while it is often found offensive by those who are called it, it is considered a neutral and factually descriptive term by Chinese people. This stuff is easily accessable. I see no reason why anybody out of the country couldn't find this information, especially with race and racial offenses such a severe topic. |
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Cloe
Moderator
Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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I don't get where you're coming up with this "national pride" thing, or the idea that people aren't openly critical of American society; I know I certainly am. I consider blind patriotism one of the lowest lows of many Americans. But when you're in the minority, frankly, there's not much one can do except be as vocal as you can and vote, which I do, and many, many other lefties in America do as well. But, you know, the other side is just as vocal, so it takes a lot of work to change things. I'm not acting as some kind of America apologist here, and frankly, I agree with you on certain points, but I have to point out that you're making a lot of sweeping generalizations that simply aren't true. Even I can see they're not true, as an agnostic left-winger who hopes to get out of this country for good one day.
Hey, don't look at me; I lived in a blue state during the last election! 
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Wandering Knight
Posts: 94 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina |
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What sweeping generalizations? Please point them out.
And I didn't point at you when I talked about voting or not voting. And kudos from me for being a leftie (though I don't know how far your meaning of the word takes it. I consider myself leftie, but more on the side that sees capitalism as a cruel system that should disappear, one day or the other. I suppose your meaning of "leftie" is more on the political side than the original, economic meaning. But of course this is just an asumption). |
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Cloe
Moderator
Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Well, mostly this: "The USA is one of the most closed-down, conservative societies of our world, if not the worst." Change "societies" to "governments" and I'll agree with you 100%. My voting comment was mostly a joke, to lighten my tone a bit. As for being a leftie, I don't really approve of capitalism, especially the way it's dealt with in the States and horrible coporate treatment of foreign employees, but with Chinese in-laws who have personally experienced the worst parts of the cultural revolution, I can't really say I approve of communism either; I'm still doing a lot of soul-searching to decide what I really feel about the ideal economy and which form, if any, already exists somewhere for me to support and pursue. The problem with any ideal is that it is nearly impossible to exist in real life, as there will always be a few power-hungry humans to seize control and mess everything up. So let's say I'm on the fence when it comes to this issue. But from a social and political stance, I fully support an all-inclusive and tolerant society and government. But back to xenophobia--wait, what was it we were talking about?
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Kilgamayan
 Posts: 275 Location: Location, Location. |
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Fixed for accuracy.
In all fairness, he didn't win the first time.
The pendulum is actually starting to swing in the other direction (while still under Bush's regime, amusingly); gay marriage is legally recognized in Massachusetts (at the very least) and New Jersey will legally recognize gay marriages if they occured in a state that legally recognizes them. Anyway, on the racism subject, everyone here should give Himesama Goyoujin a go some time (assuming it ever gets subbed since I can't see it getting licensed) because its main character is pretty much a walking talking mockery of Japan's xenophobia and is a major source of the show's humor as a result. EDIT: Also worth watching is Red Garden, a show airing this season that's set in 80's/90's New York. The animation style is a matter of taste, but the attention to American-specific detail is pretty impressive, and the only stereotype possibly protrayed in it is the American tendency to break out into emo singing. >_> Last edited by Kilgamayan on Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:56 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Wandering Knight
Posts: 94 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina |
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As my final comment today, Cloe, (I'm sleepy, it's 5 AM over here), let me say that a government is born in the context of a society. It is the society which creates the appropiate conditions for the rise of different types of government. Think about it. Nothing, in this world, appears isolated from every other element. It's more like its appearance is conditioned by every other element. Get what I'm saying?
Oh, and I'm not a communist either. Marx has taught me a lot, though, and helped me to learn how to think, so I owe him much of what I am today. But by no means I'm a communist. |
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Cloe
Moderator
Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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I do, and it's a point well taken. I want to believe that the goodness and tolerance I know exists in the people of this country (and in the world) will be able to change the government in the future. Hopefully sooner than later. I know I'm doing my best. I thank you for remaining civil throughout the discussion, and for heaven's sake, get some sleep! 
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ManOfRust
 Posts: 1935 Location: Seattle, WA |
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As incredibly simplistic (and either humorous or disturbing, depending on how you look at it) as Wandering Knight’s analysis of US society and culture may be, it does serve to make a point.
It’s not easy to understand a foreign culture based off what you see in the news and from whatever of another country’s pop culture you may have been exposed to. It’s not unusual to run into Americans that assume they understand Japan because they like anime, took a Japanese class or two, and have seen a few Kurosawa films. It just doesn’t work that way. I’m not going to claim to have an understanding of Argentinean culture just because I speak some Spanish and saw Evita. This holds true for Japanese people too, and since they are the ones making anime, some strange views of non-Japanese people are bound to crop up. While racism certainly exists in Japan (as I think it does in every place in the world), and while that racism may find its way into anime on occasion, I think most of what we consider outrageous portrayals of Westerners are born as much or more from ignorance than malicious intent. Sure, you can say that if they are going to put foreigners in the show they should do some research, and sometimes they do. In many cases, however, the thought that a certain character may not be well received by the actual people who live in the country that character is supposed to be from probably never even occurs to the creators. I’m not going to comment on the right and wrong of US foreign policy as that is far beyond the scope of an anime discussion, but given the fact that the US is not exactly making friends and positively influencing the majority of people around the world right now, and that the US has done things internationally throughout its history that have not been well received, it’s inevitable that some negative sentiments are going to find their way into things produced in other countries from time to time. Last edited by ManOfRust on Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kizoku
 Posts: 47 Location: Ypsilanti, MI |
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Racism is present in Japan, but it isn't all that prevalent. Sure, they think Japanese are better than anybody else, but every country feels that way about their own people. Even the stereotypes (at least of white westerners) are fairly good. Your typical anime seems to portray a westerner as really big, really strong, somewhat clumsy and stupid, but a really nice guy. (Hey, I said fairly good.) The Japanese government is also trying to show its people what foreign cultures are like. My daughter is in Kyushu, in a fairly small, rural, town, teaching English (and answering questions about her home) as part of the JET program. The attitude has been, "Wow, a real live foreigner and she even speaks Japanese! So coool!".
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animalia555
Posts: 467 |
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Personally I'm of the belief that there should be NO immigrations restictions whatsoever EXCEPT for security concerns, such as possible terrorists.
PS. Bush isn't so much of a bigot as he is an IDIOT. |
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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I would agree that the US is more conservative than most of the other countries in the world. But I'm glad about that since conservatism strikes me as more correct than liberalism. But in the area of racism, we are less tolerant of it than the Japanese, if for no other reason than that we have a larger minority population.
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