Forum - View topicREVIEW: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (Episodes 0-12 Streaming)
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
The same person who recognizes that there can be more than one correct way to look at a series/franchise.
That's certainly your prerogative. I am sure that, with some looking, you can find some other site whose reviews are more in lock-step with your way of thinking, since that's what you seem to want. |
||||
|
||||
Videogamep
 Posts: 564 Location: CA |
|
|||
I just meant in general. I consider myself a member of the fanbase. Even though I haven't read any of the source material, I've seen every adaptation (except Tsukihime and Kalied) and I even own a couple of them. I didn't mean to insult everyone, I was just referring to the people here who can't seem to stop arguing about minor details. |
||||
|
||||
Hikaru Suzuhara
 Posts: 86 |
|
|||
|
Comparing the FMA manga to the FSN VN in the context of a western/English speaking demographic makes no sense. Far more people have seen the 2003 FMA anime. It's how the majority of people in the west were exposed to FMA in the first place.
So yes, the FMA manga may have only fifteen hundred ratings or so, but the 2003 anime has about 13 thousand. Problem is none of what I just said amounts to much of anything at all considering there are no prerequisites or tests one has to pass in order to prove they've actually seen/read/played the work in question meaning any actual value those ratings might hold are negligible at best. |
||||
|
||||
Muphrid
 Posts: 35 |
|
|||
You (and the person you were quoting) seem to value the twists a great deal. I understand Nasu intended certain things to be twists, but hey, not everyone enjoys twists. Merely because Nasu intended certain points to be twists doesn't mean that experiencing them in a different order can't also be enjoyable. This is one reason why I say that Nasu and Urobuchi's intentions do not matter. Simply because two authors intend a story to be told one way does not mean it is more enjoyable that way. It might be, but it is not automatically so. I'm not at all surprised that someone like Creamer prefers to have those twists "spoiled," so to speak. There's a definite cost in terms of the surprise factor in several cases, but it lets the audience follow character development of characters with secrets (Saber and Sakura in particular) more closely from the beginning. I honestly don't feel that one viewing order is "objectively" superior to another. Each has different strengths. I simply will not be cowed to favoring one order over another merely because Nasu wanted it that way. Once the author has released a story to the masses, it's out of their hands. Their interpretation and intentions, no matter how authoritative, are not compulsory. It is not an audience requirement to understand and appreciate the story the same way Nasu--or any other author--does. |
||||
|
||||
|
Nocorras
Posts: 48 |
|
|||
Your posts can't get through to them I've tried so don't bother. Like I've said the only problem I have with the review is the part about being a sequel and not explaining the pros and cons of watch order, but apparently this is way too hard to grasp and being misleading without explanation is perfectly fine. I have no problem with someone starting Zero if they aren't going to bother to read the VN in the first place, they were never going to get the fullest out of the franchise anyway so it really doesn't matter. But if someone is on the fence I think they should start with UBW because they can still 'back track' and read the VN without having major plot points spoiled in the first 10 mins like Zero does. The problem with this is it creates expectations on characters to preform certain actions or find out certain things when those things may not happen in that particular route. I mean I've even seen "the authors intentions don't matter" posted here so I really gave up all hope. People wonder why VN readers laugh at Zero only watchers who expect Sakura and Illya to play a big role in UBW. DEEN messing up and allowing Zero to be adapted properly first was the worst thing that could have happened and look where we are. I'll be glad when TM + ufotable/what ever animation company finally moves on to Tsukihime since it's largely unspoiled and has no controversy on watch order. |
||||
|
||||
Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
|
|||
Of course it's not compulsory. However, I do think it is a matter of choice -- of informed choice. Some people may not understand that the author of the VN version of F/SN wanted people to experience the paths in a specific order. If they *do* know this and choose to ignore Nasu's desires in that regard, then I certainly have no problem with them making that choice. But if all they know is "order doesn't matter" and make their decision based on that, then that's not an informed decision IMO. Personally, I *did* want to experience F/SN in a way as close as possible to what Nasu intended, which led to me buying the original version of the VN. But I would never try to say that's the only way you can go about it, or that you're somehow objectively "wrong" for doing things differently. I certainly agree that watching F/Z first will help you understand certain aspects of UBW better. I think that's a no-brainer. But there are what I regard as downsides to doing that, too, and for me they outweigh whatever benefits you get -- but that's a subjective assessment on my part. If Deen's F/SN had kept to the SN path, I would have no problem recommending people watch that first, rather than F/Z. And telling them to read the VN SN path is... impractical. So that leaves: just watch UBW cold or watch F/Z first. I tend to side more with just watching UBW cold, but again that's subjective and based on how my mind interacts with plot elements and character development. And also, I am aware that I *did* see Deen's F/SN first, then read the VN, then saw the UBW movie, then F/Z, and finally ufotable's UBW, so it's hard for me to imagine what it would be like if the above had been different. I guess I'm just happy that I did see it in the order I have and want others to be able to be similarly happy: if it worked well for me, I hope the same method will work well for them, so I recommend it on that basis. |
||||
|
||||
|
Muphrid
Posts: 35 |
|
|||
Sure, and for this situation, I think the more someone knows about the pros and cons, the better. It just seems as if some folks will instantly react to suggestion of experiencing the story another way with derision and abject vitriol, as though the idea is absurd on its face. |
||||
|
||||
|
Aetius
Posts: 3 |
|
|||
|
I'm curious if it would be possible to discuss the various mythologies and history related to the series? I am an avid reader of such works( though certainly no expert on them) and as such have thoroughly enjoyed the fate franchise as it goes into these stories with a little more depth than most other anime series( especially the vn). I will of course admit that it has altered and embellished much of these stories with sabers case being the most obvious. however it has done well in maintaining the core elements that most people are aware of and adding more details. As well as the themes related to them. If anyone is interested in discussing this please let me know. I realize and understand full well that prior knowledge of literature and history related this series is not a prerequisite to enjoying it and that not everyone has nor cares to read such works.
|
||||
|
||||
nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
|
|||
Possible? Yes. Probable? No. Certain users have their hackles raised and will not back down. Oh, BTW, welcome to ANN. acetatsujin-- You say to read the visual novels -- but are the said VNs even available in English? Where can you buy them? Provide a link. |
||||
|
||||
|
Nocorras
Posts: 48 |
|
|||
Go to amazon.com or amazon.jp search Fate/Stay Night. Enjoy. Apply Mirrormoon translation patch or Beast's Lair translation patch. As far as I know patching a game you own is not illegal. Now you'll complain it's not 'an official English" version. And thanks for your review btw: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1360659&show=0#post13 |
||||
|
||||
Izanagi009
 Posts: 464 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
|
|||
Sure. One question: why are the lancers from both Zero and Stay night both Celtic in origin? are there no other lancers of myth in other countries |
||||
|
||||
|
Dug_Fin
Posts: 2 |
|
|||
Luck of the draw really, other FSN lancers ARE different for instance, In Fate Apocrypha for instance, Lancer is spoiler[ Vlad the Impaler ] |
||||
|
||||
|
Videogamep
Posts: 564 Location: CA |
|
|||
Nasu also mentioned somewhere that Berserker (the FSN one) could have also been a Lancer. |
||||
|
||||
|
Aetius
Posts: 3 |
|
|||
|
quite a few heroes are able to be summoned under mutliple roles. Cu Chulainn is able to be summoned as both lancer and berserker. As well as caster apparently which i would assume would be due to his knowledge of runic magic. While it's never mentioned in the vn or any other typemoon material that I know of, He could in theory also be summoned as a saber as the sword Fragarach was once his. As for why both lancer servants in zero and stay/night were celtic in origin? That would frankly be a question for Kinoko Nasu. I would guess it's because those are the easiest and most convenient heroes to fill those roles. While spears were heavily used through out history there are few heroes that stand out for their use and even fewer spears that can be given a name or attributed with a legendary ability of sorts. Swords were much more valued amongst the majority of ancient cultures. They were weapons of wealth and power often only used by nobility and as such were more commonly seen in myths and folklore.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Chuee
Posts: 31 |
|
|||
I don't think you get it. Almost the entire appeal of FSN is in the dark and revealing twists that get revealed throughout the story and how they impact the characters and plot in interesting ways.
There's literally nothing to gain by watching Zero. Literally. Nothing. Every that happens in Zero that is meant to be known in FSN is revealed to you throughout the game in FSN. Zero as a show is almost entirely based around the idea that you know what will happen. The 'twists' in Zero and foreshadowed way in ahead so that if you honestly get surprised when they happen you didn't pay attention. If the reviewer thinks you should watch Zero first, then fine by him. Also keep in mind he hasn't played the game, hasn't gone through Fate or Heaven's Feel (unless he watched Deen's 2006 version in which case he'd probably have seen that before Zero) and has only been through half of UBW. UBW is the route which is less ruined by Zero. Heaven's Feel literally has almost every important plot reveal spoiled in advance by Zero, which causes you to look at characters in ways that you aren't supposed to. Fate also get's heavily impacted since you spoiler[know the rivalry between Saber and Gilgamesh which pretty much almost ruins Gilgamesh's first appearance]. I mean, do you really not think there's a reason why the main protagonist in FSN happens to be someone who knows nothing about what happened during Zero nor about the grail war at all? |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group