Forum - View topicREVIEW: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (Episodes 0-12 Streaming)
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Nocorras
Posts: 48 |
|
|||||
Please, that scene in the anime does not portray him as some completely evil maniac like you're making it out to be. I just watched the scene and read it in the VN. The tone is the same, maybe if you stopped projecting Zero knowledge on to FSN you'd be able to see that. [Edit]: please read the quoting guidelines. Thanks. Errinundra. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
tjetjj
Posts: 2 |
|
|||||
|
I find it funny that most of the complaints are some of the main reasons I love Fate/stay Night. You can tell a lot of heart was put into the writing and it shows, even though the product was sub par. The imperfections are half of why I love it. The messy dialogue and plot mixed somehow into making something amazing. I have trouble explaining exactly why I love it but I do. All I know is that every time a character goes on a long philosophical rant or says a completely unnatural line of dialogue during a fight I am filled with glee. I believe this series has a weird attractiveness about it, making you become absorbed in the characters and plot. I remember reading the VN for the first time and thinking it's writing was awful. Yet by the time the first route ended I was bawling about Saber. How such a messy story was able to pull me in so much I may never know. Now all I wish is that other fate fans can realize that they can like a series while acknowledging its faults and not attack other people for their opinions on the series.
|
||||||
|
||||||
doubleO7
 Posts: 1069 |
|
|||||
I admit, this is true. Since they made the F/Z anime first they know there are a lot of people that watched it beforehand. However, just because they are accommodating people that saw F/Z first by sprinkling UBW with a few nods here and there, still doesn't necessarily make that the ideal viewing order. Being supplemental material, it's my opinion that the twists and reveals in F/Z have far more impact with existing knowledge from the 3 original routes. As it's connections to the events of the original VN become more apparent, the missing pieces of the overall Fate puzzle start falling into place. Many a-ha! moments are had. I feel that in this way the payoff is far more significant than the alternative. That being, tons of spoilers for many of Stay Night's mysteries, a few comments, and a handful of brief character moments of contemplation/surprise/etc when references to F/Z are made in UBW. Being able to catch these things is fun and all, but what you're "missing out" on by not watching F/Z first is arguably rather insignificant in comparison to the FSN spoilers it basically serves you on a silver platter. That being said, I fully admit that just because F/Z spoils the plot of Stay Night, doesn't necessarily mean it will spoil someones enjoyment of it, at least not by a significant margin. A lot of people won't mind this, some may even prefer it for whatever reasons, but it's something I personally try to avoid when I dive into an expansive franchise like this. That's why I continue to recommend release order over chronological order for Fate whenever this discussion comes up. |
||||||
|
||||||
One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
|
|||||
|
Solid review. Pretty much agree with most of the positives and negatives. On a side note, I miss having the relationship of Rider and Waver in F/Z. Rider's character added some fun that UB lacks for me.
And the reviewer says right after that:
He says the same thing you did that the show "tells you everything you need to know" in the first episodes, so no you don't have to watch 25 other episodes before this show. Seriously, are people going to start this raging about the order to watch these anime again? This part of the review isn't for hardcore visual novel fans who've seen and read everything about the Fate franchise. This part is addressing people who haven't seen any of the franchise or maybe are casual anime fans. For some people its not going to matter if they see F/Z before UB or vice versa and they wont be bent out of shape about it. Last edited by One-Eye on Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
||||||
|
||||||
Ambimunch
 Posts: 2012 |
|
|||||
|
Whoa...a review on ANN I actually agree with?! Madness!
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
acetatsujin
Posts: 208 |
|
|||||
|
Another terrible review by someone who doesn't know or understand the Fate universe. Such a shame ANN is bringing to itself ...
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
SilverTalon01
Posts: 2403 |
|
|||||
Exactly this. Ufotable's UBW is essentially spoiling itself if it is your first entry into Fate. It throws several plot reveals out which you don't find out until considerably later into the VN (such as Gil working with Kirei). The trailers for UBW themselves call it a sequel to F/Z. If we're talking about F/Z and the original VN, then definitely read the VN first. This star wars comparison going on is utter garbage. Ep 4-6 are the VN, Ep 1-3 would be F/Z (only without the sucking). Ufotable's UBW would be like if some one went and completely redid 4-6 to flow better after watching 1-3. Late Edit: Also, I think it is really dumb that people are suggesting UBW should be watched first simply because UBW itself is the second part of the VN. The story in UBW was never intended to be the entry into Fate. Back to the crappy SW comparison, that is like starting with Empire Strikes back. |
||||||
|
||||||
Seif
 Posts: 456 |
|
|||||
That's a fantastic point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPItqNsCXM4 |
||||||
|
||||||
Angel'sArcanum
 Posts: 303 Location: Toronto, Ontario |
|
|||||
|
Also, it escaped me as I read the review when ironically I think about it every other time, but frankly I feel Parasyte suffers from the detractors outlined in the review with its ideas being kind of a weird melting pot and the narrative tends to be second to the action, but maybe that's just me.
|
||||||
|
||||||
jojothepunisher
 Posts: 799 |
|
|||||
I agree that it depends on people whether they like it or not, but Fate/stay night's setting itself is already self-serious. We all signed up to watch this self-serious show, so I don't think more self-serious dialogues should affect the overall viewing experience. I personally think that these "self-serious" dialogues are also crucial in building the servants as people who are full of righteousness, pride, and chivalry. Anything else would lack that same impact I feel. |
||||||
|
||||||
SonOfaMonkey
 Posts: 28 |
|
|||||
Despite the fact that... 
...a general rule for sequels in media is to view them in release order. Ufotable's UBW anime is a separate work in a different medium from Nasu's original visual novel. It was released after the F/Z anime, which it is mean to directly follow. Watch it after F/Z. If you're reading the novels (visual and light, respectively) then feel free to experience F/Z's story second. Otherwise, head off with this elitism. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Nocorras
Posts: 48 |
|
|||||
Ok since someone is wondering, exactly how they are changing the route to fit F/Z?? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Nocorras
Posts: 48 |
|
|||||
Despite the fact that Zero requires HF knowledge to know why things turn out like they do in the end. Ignorance isn't an excuse. It's pretty clear that you're supposed to know the events of FSN before diving into Zero. There is zero reason for them to spoil major plot points within the first few minutes other-wise. |
||||||
|
||||||
Muphrid
 Posts: 35 |
|
|||||
|
I don't know if I can agree with the idea that this is a "self-indulgent action spectacle". That's certainly a strength of the show, but I don't know if that's what the show wants to be. If it did, why build in all the slow days of Shirou and Rin feeling out the situation, learning about themselves and each other?
Perhaps it can be said that the character work doesn't overshadow the action when action is present. That's good for keeping things engaging on several levels--at least folks who don't really feel tied into the character work have something to enjoy otherwise. Shirou's ideals--how they are flawed, how he learns to tweak them and modify them and live with them--are central to the overall story of Fate/stay night. I wouldn't characterize the focus on them as philosophical in nature, but more along the lines of a coming-of-age story, of a child learning to be an adult, tempering naivete with wisdom and experience. To that end, the most important people around around Shirou are reflections on his ideals. Rin is a good person, but her upbringing has been entirely pragmatic and without any attachment to ideals. Archer cynically takes Shirou's ideals to their logical extreme. I think ufotable have done a good job at capturing Shirou's contradiction: he starts off frustrated, not just because he lacks the power to see his ideals come to fruition but because he knows they are, in some sense, impossible. And yet, he clings to them anyway, not knowing what else to turn to. That sense of Shirou's character is very hard to get right; pulling it off helped keep people engaged in Shirou's struggle, I think. If anything, I think it's the overemphasis on Shirou's personal struggle that bogs down the story, as many of the developments in the middle part of the season don't fit well with the overarching plot but help further Shirou's development (however gracefully or clumsily these efforts may have been). The plot basically doesn't go anywhere between the battle with Berserker and Caster showing up, but we get several episodes that probe at Shirou's mindset in the meantime. In all, I don't think popcorn action is what UBW wants to be, though it can definitely do those moments well--almost impeccably, save for some poor shots in the Archer/Caster/Shirou fight midway through. I don't think UBW wants to be philosophical either--it explores some questions of morality, sure, but it spends much more time just telling Shirou that's he's naive, and with Shirou struggling against the crushing knowledge of that. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
SilverTalon01
Posts: 2403 |
|
|||||
You make it sound like I said they're changing the story. What they are doing is showing things that in the original VN had to be kept secret before the big reveal, but doesn't need to now because you know fro F/Z meaning there is no point treating it like a shock. An example of a string of changes is rather than Gil making a surprise entry as the hidden extra servant significantly later into the plot, he was shown very early with Kirei. That also gave up the reveal that Kirei was involved as more than just an arbitrator (which was forshadowed early in the VN but not confirmed until later). Since we know Kirei is involved already, it also was fine to show that Lancer is his servant in the scene where Lancer watches him fight with Caster's minions. So they're not changing the story, but what they are changing is the flow. Rather than being obscure until a shocking reveal, they're making it smoother by giving you bits as you go along.
That is just plain not true. I'm assuming you mean about the grail, but F/Z explains itself just fine. Sure, HF has significantly more information, but F/Z doesn't require that to make sense. Last edited by SilverTalon01 on Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group