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EP. REVIEW: Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers


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Botan_TM



Joined: 25 Jun 2015
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:36 pm Reply with quote
_Cyphon_ wrote:
well you have got to speed it up when you're three episodes in and you haven't touched upon the main mystery of the show which was included in its synopsis.

I like how the story has already led to a lot of theory crafting in here. Sadly for me the traitor was spoiled in the Youtube comment sections. It would've been great if the director told the audience that there was a possibility the TV series would deviate from the LN to prevent LN readers from spoiling the identity of the fake brave.


Well, we are getting clues and information which will be used later, so I would not say that we haven't touch it yet.

Abour spoilers, there are also trolls who are writing nonsenses about who is it and call it spoiler, hopefully this is that case.
If you want to ensure yourself just PM me.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 1010
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:38 pm Reply with quote
_Cyphon_ wrote:


I like how the story has already led to a lot of theory crafting in here. Sadly for me the traitor was spoiled in the Youtube comment sections. It would've been great if the director told the audience that there was a possibility the TV series would deviate from the LN to prevent LN readers from spoiling the identity of the fake brave.


No need to worry. There's apparently much more to the story than the "fake Brave" premise. From what I've heard from LN readers, the reveal of the fake Brave's identity spoiler[happens pretty early on.]
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_Cyphon_



Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 996
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Botan_TM wrote:
If you want to ensure yourself just PM me.

Nah, appreciate it. If it really was just trolls commenting then I would get a pleasant surprise after the reveal. If not I'm still going to enjoy the buildup to the reveal.
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Nyron



Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 161
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:06 pm Reply with quote
"These first episodes are engaging, illustrating character through action rather than statements, and they paint a clear picture of the world our heroes inhabit."

How do I get hired to write for this site? Apparently they pull in literally anyone, since this headline doesn't have anything to do with this series at all.

Everything in the first few episodes is flatly told and expositional, and the characters are entirely shown through statements and bad, redundant dialogue rather than action. And the setting is also told through the same flat methods.

That blurb describes Mad Max: Fury Road, which this does not come close to.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 1010
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:43 pm Reply with quote
Nyron wrote:
"These first episodes are engaging, illustrating character through action rather than statements, and they paint a clear picture of the world our heroes inhabit."

How do I get hired to write for this site? Apparently they pull in literally anyone, since this headline doesn't have anything to do with this series at all.

Everything in the first few episodes is flatly told and expositional, and the characters are entirely shown through statements and bad, redundant dialogue rather than action. And the setting is also told through the same flat methods.

That blurb describes Mad Max: Fury Road, which this does not come close to.


First off, while there is definitely quite a bit of exposition, people are exaggerating. Seems to me that whenever characters are having a conversation about anything, people are always quick to complain about "BAD LN EXPOSITION". Rolling Eyes
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:44 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Nyron wrote:
"These first episodes are engaging, illustrating character through action rather than statements, and they paint a clear picture of the world our heroes inhabit."

How do I get hired to write for this site? Apparently they pull in literally anyone, since this headline doesn't have anything to do with this series at all.

Everything in the first few episodes is flatly told and expositional, and the characters are entirely shown through statements and bad, redundant dialogue rather than action. And the setting is also told through the same flat methods.

That blurb describes Mad Max: Fury Road, which this does not come close to.


First off, while there is definitely quite a bit of exposition, people are exaggerating. Seems to me that whenever characters are having a conversation about anything, people are always quick to complain about "BAD LN EXPOSITION". Rolling Eyes


That's because most people who about complain about exposition don't really know what a good or bad one is. It's a buzzword like Mary/Gary Sue/Stu is nowadays to replace saying "I don't like x". Just only the fact that exposition exists is bad to them which is utterly nonsensical and those probably haven't had much conversations with anybody. The only bit of really questionable exposition was in the middle of the first episode, but that's about it.
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Nyron



Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 161
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 pm Reply with quote
Iron Maw wrote:
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Nyron wrote:
"These first episodes are engaging, illustrating character through action rather than statements, and they paint a clear picture of the world our heroes inhabit."

How do I get hired to write for this site? Apparently they pull in literally anyone, since this headline doesn't have anything to do with this series at all.

Everything in the first few episodes is flatly told and expositional, and the characters are entirely shown through statements and bad, redundant dialogue rather than action. And the setting is also told through the same flat methods.

That blurb describes Mad Max: Fury Road, which this does not come close to.


First off, while there is definitely quite a bit of exposition, people are exaggerating. Seems to me that whenever characters are having a conversation about anything, people are always quick to complain about "BAD LN EXPOSITION". Rolling Eyes


That's because most people who about complain about exposition don't really know what a good or bad one is. It's a buzzword like Mary/Gary Sue/Stu is nowadays to replace saying "I don't like x". Just only the fact that exposition exists is bad to them which is utterly nonsensical and those probably haven't had much conversations with anybody. The only bit of really questionable exposition was in the middle of the first episode, but that's about it.


I'm just going to compare this show with Rage of Bahamut, a much better fantasy action adventure series from last year.

In the first 3 minutes of episode 1, without a single idiotic line of dialogue telling you anything, the show made it perfectly clear that there is an ancient, apocalyptic evil and that it was sealed away, and then over the course of a few episodes it makes it clear that that evil is coming back without bogging down the meat of the show (the characters on a journey). That is good storytelling.

Bahamut had an extremely rich world with complex characters and tons going on, and I don't remember a single time where the exposition felt as boring and forced as this series, which has a much simpler setting and a more cliche cast.

I'll also compare it to Majestic Prince, an extremely trope-y series that had absolutely not one single original idea(like this one), but still managed to be a solid 8/10 because the cliche characters' interactions and dialogue were well-formed and the action was great.

so far rokka has nothing going for it.
It's not making up for its cliches with solid action and dialogue like MJP
And it's not hiding its derivativeness by being "show, don't tell" like Bahumut (or by being actually great, like Bahamut)

I feel like the only singular thing this series is hinging on is the "who dun it" gimmick, and the characters/setting aren't interesting enough for me to care that much. I feel like if I were spoiled I would lose all interest in the series completely.
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:18 am Reply with quote
Nyron wrote:


I'm just going to compare this show with Rage of Bahamut, a much better fantasy action adventure series from last year.


Oh this well be fun since RoB was one of my favorite shows from last year.

Quote:
In the first 3 minutes of episode 1, without a single idiotic line of dialogue telling you anything, the show made it perfectly clear that there is an ancient, apocalyptic evil and that it was sealed away, and then over the course of a few episodes it makes it clear that that evil is coming back without bogging down the meat of the show (the characters on a journey). That is good storytelling.


I have no idea by what you mean by "idiotic line of dialogue", but Rokka's base backstory has been just as clear as Bahamut's with slight more details. Rokka isn't bogging itself down with character interactions, in fact for many others it's been the highlight of the show. It rare for adaptations to time to establish both characters and world instead of rushing things and leaving casts as one note. This especially important for Rokka because it also has mystery as core of it's story. It's not just an action adventure show.

It's entirely valid method of storytelling and just because not to your taste doesn't change that.

Quote:
Bahamut had an extremely rich world with complex characters and tons going on, and I don't remember a single time where the exposition felt as boring and forced as this series, which has a much simpler setting and a more cliche cast.


Bahamut was mixed mash of several mythological figures and concepts that were entirely cribbed for other sources. Furthermore those figures were defined by their Good and Bad factions they belonged to and most of the time they were sitting on their assess observing and exposing stuff. At one point the show tried to introduce some moral ambiguity among the Good Faction but it never really went anywhere and a demon in the ended being the bad guy anyway.

The so-called rich history only consist of tried trope of 3 factions uniting against a single random who existence who is never really explained. The places the characters visit and come have no real connection to one another and exist as backdrop to move from point A to B. The show's lore was simply a random mess and often the least interesting part of it.

While likable the main characters in the show are definitely cliched and certainly not complex. Ria from despite her interesting introduction early on goes to spend the rest of series as nothing more that plot device that bail the heroes out every now and then. She literally just a deadpan zombie who snarks from time to time and nothing more.

Quote:
I'll also compare it to Majestic Prince, an extremely trope-y series that had absolutely not one single original idea(like this one), but still managed to be a solid 8/10 because the cliche characters' interactions and dialogue were well-formed and the action was great.


I'm not seeing the relevance of this other than just stating your opinion. For the matter I heavily disagree, MJP is a nonsensical show who's characters defining traits were how exaggerated they were.

Quote:
so far rokka has nothing going for it.
It's not making up for its cliches with solid action and dialogue like MJP
And it's not hiding its derivativeness by being "show, don't tell" like Bahumut (or by being actually great, like Bahamut)


So far Rokka has off the top of my head:
- A rare seen unique take on Mesoamerican inspired fantasy world.
- A competent and non-idiotic MC who still manages to be charming despite his idiocycrocies.
- Characters have distinct personalities while speaking like actual people with a natural flow of dialogue and emote both clearly and subtlety fashions throughout the conversations with smooth body language.
- A promising plot and good sense of direction
- Striking beautiful locations with potentials of history throughout.
- Solid animation accompanied by wonderful music.

Oh and on Bahamut, that show did plenty telling especially in it's later half.

Quote:
I feel like the only singular thing this series is hinging on is the "who dun it" gimmick, and the characters/setting aren't interesting enough for me to care that much. I feel like if I were spoiled I would lose all interest in the series completely.


You mean the same gimmick that has yet to appear in the plot itself, and despite that this show is still holding itself up? Look Rokka is clearly not for you nor is nobody forcing you to watch it if you don't enjoy it. This series has established it has own way of presenting itself and I doubt it will change to meet you tastes.

But hey there other fantasy shows like GATE or Overlord that might tickle your fancy.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 1010
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Iron Maw wrote:
.
- Solid animation accompanied by wonderful music.


Now, Rokka might be pretty good so far, but I just can't agree with this. I mean, the musical score is wonderful, but the animation can get pretty...egh...sometimes. The highlights of the series have definitely mostly been in that first episode.
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:12 pm Reply with quote
I felt ep 2 was only subpar one on that regard. This week while not on the same level as the preimer was quite good deal better.
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kinghumanity



Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:15 pm Reply with quote
1. Adlet Mayer looks like he was just rescued from Auschwitz. Bony, pale white, etc.

2. I have to agree with the above posters who said that Rokka relied wayyyy too much on exposition. Much of the first episodes consisted of people talking and dumping information on the audience. I'm not opposed to dialogue-heavy anime, but it has its place, and fantasy-action is clearly not its place.

3. The pacing is way. too. god. damn. slow. Three episodes in and still no major action, as well as half the cast still yet to be introduced.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 1010
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:13 am Reply with quote
kinghumanity wrote:
2. I have to agree with the above posters who said that Rokka relied wayyyy too much on exposition. Much of the first episodes consisted of people talking and dumping information on the audience. I'm not opposed to dialogue-heavy anime, but it has its place, and fantasy-action is clearly not its place.


If Rokka was just your standard fantasy-action series, I'd agree. But as you'll see Rokka is anything but a standard fantasy-action. In fact...well, I'll let you find out on your own. Wink
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 492
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:31 am Reply with quote
kinghumanity wrote:
1. Adlet Mayer looks like he was just rescued from Auschwitz. Bony, pale white, etc.

2. I have to agree with the above posters who said that Rokka relied wayyyy too much on exposition. Much of the first episodes consisted of people talking and dumping information on the audience. I'm not opposed to dialogue-heavy anime, but it has its place, and fantasy-action is clearly not its place.

3. The pacing is way. too. god. damn. slow. Three episodes in and still no major action, as well as half the cast still yet to be introduced.


None of this is actually a problem as much as it is personal preference. Just because something is fantasy doesn't mean needs to be a Micheal Bay film. It's all in execution rather than something inherenit. There is also hardly any info dumping; much of the exposition happens in a natural way by being interspersed between and in small talks, idle banter or just general horsing around rather than some disembodied narrator telling the audience directly or one character explaining things. It's not just through dialogue either, but minor actions like Adlet holding up a mirror to check Fremy in the forest, or how one scene has Nachetania hands shaking despite her trying not to show her nerves. Even Fremy the most close-off is surprisingly expressive subtle ways in tone thanks Aoi Yuuki's acting.
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maxwell3094



Joined: 28 Mar 2014
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:03 am Reply with quote
kinghumanity wrote:
2. I have to agree with the above posters who said that Rokka relied wayyyy too much on exposition. Much of the first episodes consisted of people talking and dumping information on the audience. I'm not opposed to dialogue-heavy anime, but it has its place, and fantasy-action is clearly not its place.

3. The pacing is way. too. god. damn. slow. Three episodes in and still no major action, as well as half the cast still yet to be introduced.

Keep in mind that this is NOT just fantasy action. There is some action yes but if your coming into this show expecting some sort of action heavy spectacle (like say Bahamut which I see some others mentioned.) your probably going to be disappointed. This is just a rough estimate but if I had to guess id say Rokka is split about 50/50 or 60/40 (mystery being the 60) between mystery and fantasy action.

As for the pacing it IS slow. At this rate it looks like the show will only adapt the first 2 maybe 3 volumes. But again this show is part mystery. I've been keeping an eye out for the hints that I know I missed when I read through the series and they ARE being included. Yes even though the main premise has not been established in the show yet subtle hints hidden away in the dialogue are already there. On that note being able to read speculation from others is great fun. Very Happy

Basically just don't come into this show expecting another Bahamut or something similar. That's only a part of what it is.
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kinghumanity



Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:28 pm Reply with quote
I don't need a Michael Bay imitation, but three episodes in, all that has happened that is interesting and engaging to the viewer is Fremy.


It's not just that info dumping is hard to keep up with, but also it is getting in the way of character development. The amount of character development that Adlet received so far is exactly 0. A story should give its viewers reasons to identify with, and root for, the main character. Charlotte and Shirayuki of this season both did an excellent job at making the audience root for the MC in three episodes. Rokka didn't even try.

If this is what the rest of the series is like, it's not getting more than a 5/10 from me.


Last edited by kinghumanity on Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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