Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: SHIMONETA: A Boring World Where the Concept of Dirty Jokes Doesn't Exist
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invalidname
 Contributor Posts: 2447 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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This [Northern Hemisphere] Summer is generous with the raunchy sex comedy anime: aside from Shimoneta, is anyone watching My Wife Is The Student Council President? Crunchyroll has both the censored and uncensored versions and it's utterly bizarre that when they get to an lengthy adults-only scene in the original, it's typically replaced in the censored version with a non sequitur stick-puppet scene that makes almost no sense. The Crunchyroll queue tends to default to the censored version, so it's easy to watch this by mistake and have to go back to get the original.
Anyways, glad Theron's on Shimoneta; seems like it would be his kind of thing. |
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2459 |
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So far the extent of what SOX is teaching students is pretty much "Sex is a thing. Masturbate!". Which IS a step in a good direction given these people didn't even know why they were getting these urges or what to do with them, I suppose.
I was, and now that I think about it, it does have another similar line in that the Stu Co Pres is for healthy sexual relationships while the first 'antagonist' was against, and I would believe the adults too. I ultimately dropped it for thinking it was unfunny and that the fanservice just wasn't doing it for me, but it's more of a problem with me not liking fanservice in anime much than anything (I'll read the manga eventually) |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15466 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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This has been a surprising series. There was one show several seasons back that had robots and dick jokes which I could not watch more, I expected this to be the same, but I think that there is something strangely healthy going on here. Sure fanservice, but when you see the show devoting some time to some BL, it is not too bad.
The show has made it pretty clear that Anna's acts are not okay, but they are so over the top it is kind of hilarious. Kind of makes me think of some crazy yaoi situations, something for the female demographic, where one party is a bit too rapey. I found her funny when she went android like with punches and being clueless of a picture, and she became a great character of clueless and no release. It really is not that crazy to think certain groups would happily monitor what people say and draw with the right technology. Youth really can be misinformed, and really does not always do that much good. |
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Neko-sensei
Posts: 283 |
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Man, spend a few dozen hours at work, and...
I'm mostly too tired to do anything but enjoy your excellent discussion, but I did want to say that I don't think I ever mentioned dictatorships—a totalitarian regime can be theocratic just as easily as it can Leftist, Rightist, military, or dictatorial. The difference between every instance of totalitarianism and the world of Shimoneta is that the fictional world appears to have no restrictions on people's attitude towards the State (remember, all totalitarian governments are primarily concerned with their own perpetuation), merely their attitudes towards one very specific thing. In a theocracy, to cite a specific example, sexual mores are used as a means of demonstrating that the populace is "purer" than that of other groups, thereby strengthening group identification and by extension loyalty to its governing body. There is no such social utility to the excision of sexuality here. As for the question of narrative consistency, I was indeed referring to a lack of internal logic. A few examples: —The government appears to have a zero-tolerance policy for dirty thoughts and actions. How then is it possible for schools to have a "morality" standing? It appears that degenerate students from any school are automatically quarantined from the rest of society, or perhaps rehabilitated (how this may happen is not clear). —As I said before, in-universe the government has no discernible motivation whatsoever to spend what must assuredly be an enormous amount of money on the PM program. It's implied that there's vested interest somewhere, but Japan is still a democracy and the people seem ambivalent about the program. How is it even a thing? —Is there any level on which the student extras' behavior makes any sense? One moment they're keeping away from the outcast from a low-morality school; the next they're desperately seeking out porn. They simultaneously discuss dirty things in the bathroom using codewords and don't know that animals mate. They exist always and only to do whatever the narrative needs them to do at that moment, which really bothers me. There are many more examples, but to wrap up and get myself to bed with a quick note on satire, I think there's a clear difference between something like Shimoneta and something like (to use the most obvious example) Swift's Laputa. The inhabitants of Laputa perform absurd, often cruel, experiments, pretend to ridiculous knowledge, and disconnect themselves from reality because they satirize the Royal Society's similar behavior. Swift has made them ridiculous by exaggeration. Anna satirizes... what? Does she represent the poor sexually-ignorant and externally-repressed youth of Japan who, lacking a proper outlet for their desires, turn to pure perversion as an outlet? Because if so, that's not an exaggeration of the youth a hypothetical future extension of Bill 156 would create [and I can actually speak from experience here, having myself gone to a religious college where students could potentially be expelled for sexual expression!]... it is, in the most incredibly blast of irony, an exaggeration of what Ishihara claims the youth of Japan already are. Is Anna in fact intended to mock something else entirely? Where Swift's satire is "pointed," Shimoneta's is so broad it loses all focus and winds up consuming itself. So yes, I'm going to agree with the majority opinion that Shimoneta had a satirical concept ("what if everything were exactly like right now, except..."), tried it out, had no clue what to do with it, and is now just going for pure pun. |
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Hiroki not Takuya
 Posts: 2516 |
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I agree with DuskyPredator in that I find Shimoneta refreshing because it reverses roles and has girls being perverts and preying on the poor defenseless guy. Am I sexist now?? I also find Anna and her mother interesting studies on motivation, could it be that the mother shares Anna's sexual aggression and tries to sublimate that by pushing for aggressively repressive measures? As far as Christianity being held as inherently sexually repressive, Jesus and the apostles taught that people should be controlled by the Holy Spirit rather than the urges of the body because "real" life is spiritual and the present body will eventually be done away with. They taught that men and women were equal in God's sight and should treat each other in that manner. This was never believed by-and-large to mean that Christians should outlaw sex and sexual knowlege and smash anybody who disagrees because it is "dirty", though vastly immature self-proclaimed Christian and Jewish groups in history have misunderstood and done just that and some societies followed. God created sex and said "be fruitful and multiply" with the caveat that a man should stick (like glue!) to one woman and that they should become one (emotionally and physically) and not divorce outside a couple of exceptions. Paul taught that within these bounds "everything is permissible".
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Gan_HOPE326
Posts: 31 |
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@Neko-Sensei: I think Anna is supposed to represent the consequence of the restrictive policy enacted, namely, how sexual ignorance begets MORE depraved (and actually dangerous/immoral) behaviour than sexual knowledge. It is known that for example in the US the schools which practice "abstinence" sex-ed are the ones with actually the highest teen pregnancy rates. The idea is simply that sex is a natural urge, that pretending it is wicked and should be hidden/forgotten is not only wrong but a fool's errand anyway and can only lead to more trouble. So it's pretty consistent with the overall message of the show IMHO. When you say this is also how people like Ishihara see it - their analysis may be partially correct, the point the show makes is that proposing as a cure MORE sexual repression rather than LESS is going in the completely wrong direction.
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I wasn't singling out any of the Abrahamic religions (I'm not as familiar with non-Abrahamic religions), I was just pointing out that within those religions are Fundamentalist groups that have very strict interpretations of their core texts that severly limit sexual expression in their followers. It doesn't even matter what the core texts originally said, just the fundamentalist interpretations of it. For example, the Old Testament is pretty clear that polygamy, and even non-marital concubines are permissible, but as far as I know, only Islam really accepts polygamy, and I'm not even sure if all Muslim sects do. There are legitimate reasons for this, but the point still stands that what is written isn't always what is practiced. |
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Johan Eriksson 9003
Posts: 281 |
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Honestly, I think this might be my favorite title of the season. It certainly straddles the line of good taste and dips inte some problematic jokes on occasion, but overall it works really well and I support the underlying message so win win.
I think one of the reasons I like it so much is that it actually has a really good sense of pacing. The jokes are coming at you a mile a minute and it is almost impossible not to be swept up in its infectious energy. Then again I am the kind of guy who really likes the comedy in American Pie and Eurotrip so I am very much aware of the need for a specific sense of humor here. On a more ironic note, I think I actually prefer this anime censored. The sounds they use to cover up Kajo's foul language are [expletive] hilarious when they come in such rapid succession. It is auditory slapstick at its finest. |
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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If you take the imagery from the start:
People at gunpoint on their knees hands behind their heads while armed and armored soldiers/police look for and destroy objectionable material. It is pretty powerful imagery. But this is a comedy, I watched in stone faced silence for 4 episodes of bleeped outbursts of I guess profanity in a non native language. And dropped. A dub should improve this, though Family Guy has done pretty much this comedy bit before. I will check back then. |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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Why are people discussing Judaeo-Christian influences on modern social mores? This isn't an Ikuhara circlejerk...I mean show.
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Color2413
Posts: 49 |
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This has amused me more than any anime this season, varying from "droll" to "laugh-out-loud" funny. I don't worry much about the setting's internal logic; I think it's fine to enjoy it as close to pure farce, with an absurd harem setup, a comically prudish protagonist, and madcap illogic that keeps me smiling as it keeps trying to top itself.
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Hiroki not Takuya
Posts: 2516 |
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@Agent355"but the point still stands that what is written isn't always what is practiced" Yeah, I hear that, and it is irksome when people point to the Puritans and cite Roman Catholicism "horror stories" as emblematic of all Christianity. In fact one could say that the results Shimoneta postulates have already been realized in the priest sexual abuse scandals and could have been forseen as a result of the un-Biblical insistence that all priests be celibate. |
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Hellsoldier
 Posts: 754 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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I feel there would not be this amount of controversy if the topic at hand was not Abrahamic Religion... Just about anything that isn't a personal attack or cheap insult can be mentioned at free will... Biblical Quotes included. Yes, millions, hundreds of billions of people in Abrahamic Religions are kindhearted people. Many of the laws mentioned in the book are not applied. But I believe God claims his word to be perfect. If so, then why the so many contradictions between different parts of the Bible? Most people don't treat women like property, but fact is the Deuteronomy treats women as property. And if the Bible is the word of God, then these were also the words of God. And it also means that the great words about respect in a relationship are in direct contradiction with other words about a raped woman being forced to be married to her rapist, among other things. I believe it is a fair and legitimate question, the one I'm asking. And let us not forget God-sponsored genocide, like the death of egyptian first-born, the flooding of Noah's world, the Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Canaanites, etc... In a free society I am free to discuss this. And yes, we have diverted from the anime theme that is supposed to be the theme of this page. But dwelling into Dytopian Books is no different. I felt a connection between Shimoneta and the book I was reading, albeit slight. Same thing here. Most religious people are not fundamentalists, but the fundamentalists do nothing but do exactly as said in many texts. It is Biblical motives that were used for Proposition 8, just for a recent example. (What is your opinion on Same-Sex relationships, by the way?). Again I say this: Everything is target of analysis and criticism. And as long as I respect the Christian himself, all is well. He will give me reasons why he is not an Atheist anyways. One of my best friends is a Muslim from southern Turkey, who was in a program here in Portugal. 
Also, Ikuhara for the win. Few people can ever work on something as great as Revolutionary Girl Utena or Mawaru-Penguindrum. I felt a bit lukewarm about Yuri Kuma Arashi, but I like it as well. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18198 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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(Moderator Directive: )
Let's not devolve this into a discussion about religion. It should only be brought up as it has any relevance to the series and its content. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Question, have you actually WATCHED any Shimoneta? I only ask because your first comment (from yesterday) was: I may really check this one out. I was on the fence until tofay. I will check Shimoneta and Rokka out after this season ends, or maybe before that. |
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