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Hey, Answerman! [2006-12-01]


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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3186
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:31 pm Reply with quote
haha how funny. i used to wait for a complete boxset on the anime that i bought but that takes all the fun out of collecting it. how can you say no to those limited edition dvds funi is putting out? i like to buy and watch it when its released so i can discuss with my anime loving friends. money can be a problem though especially for a student. setting aside about $20 every month or so for a dvd isnt tough but with the upcoming december releases of paradise kiss and kimi ga nozomu eien i might have a little financial trouble. but hey, its always nice to find a $7.99 full brick/thinpak collection from best buy, frys electronics, or gamestop though. deals are all over the place. you just have to know how to search Cool
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Steventheeunuch





PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:38 pm Reply with quote
luffypirate85 wrote:
how can you say no to those limited edition dvds funi is putting out?


You simply don't. I know I do (and I used to be a fairly big LE whore at that).
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Daemonblue



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 701
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:49 pm Reply with quote
mistress_reebi wrote:

Drawings of children being raped is illegal in some countries including Canada. Even if it is imaginary it's still child pornography. If it isn't hentai wouldn't be sold to people an 18+ crowd because drawings aren't real.


I meant that as in it's not illegal here nor there, mostly because one person can claim that it's a child, while on the other end whatever age it is is up to the creator. If I draw a stick person with boobs and say it's an 8 year old female, that can still be considered child porn even if it is poorly drawn. It's sold to people 18+ not because it's "child porn" either, but because it's porn in general. That age also changes from country to country...and in Canada it's not just being raped, it's them being nude in what they consider a non-artistic way...something along those lines [i.e. rape usually includes 2 or more people/animals (some people have weird tastes) which wouldn't encompass the person involved doing it by himself/herself, while the law makes it illegal to have pictures of juveniles nude, which does encompass such acts].

And yea, forgot that it's mostly racial and gender profiling that's illegal, I think nationality profiling is also illegal (since race doesn't specify where they were born).
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cardcaptormanda



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 237
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:13 pm Reply with quote
mistress_reebi wrote:
Most people who look at child pornography images on the internet are child molesters.

Wow, most? That's quite a statement.

By your logic, "most" people who watch hentai which features rape, are rapists. "Most" people who watch anime with murder are murderers, or would like to be. I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't true.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what people get aroused by as long as it doesn't harm anyone in real life. I think most people who look at loli porn are not child molesters, and may in fact be totally against pornography depicting real children because of the emotional, physical, and psychological harm done to them. They feel ok looking at drawn images because no one was harmed to make them, but harm a real child, and most of these people would be disgusted.
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MeggieMay



Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 607
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:54 pm Reply with quote
crilix wrote:
When you see one fanservice discussion, you've seen them all. Smile

I'd just like to point out that "the next installment of Negima" (it being "Negima!?") so far includes ZERO naked-skin-panty-shot-type fanservice and focuses almost completely on moe/cute-type fanservice. In any case, it is not sexually flavored at all. It's a wonderful representation of Akamatsu Ken's personal beliefs about anime moe and sexuality about which he wrote in his personal blog.

A bit OT here but where is this blog at and/or where is a good translation of the blog (or even a place that might have some discussion on the subject)? I like to read what was said about this situation and Negima but I don't know a whole lot about this show. I do, however, know a fan of the show and manga in real life and they've been saying that since Ken uses a lot of fanservice in the Manga that they doubt he sees anything wrong with it in the first season of the show. If Ken did have problems with it and is on record as such I'd like to see what his thoughts were the subject.

However, discussing it in detail in this thread would be way off topic so please just point me to wherever this discussion is actually going on, on the web Smile.
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mistress_reebi



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:42 pm Reply with quote
cardcaptormanda wrote:
mistress_reebi wrote:
Most people who look at child pornography images on the internet are child molesters.

Wow, most? That's quite a statement.

By your logic, "most" people who watch hentai which features rape, are rapists. "Most" people who watch anime with murder are murderers, or would like to be. I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't true.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what people get aroused by as long as it doesn't harm anyone in real life. I think most people who look at loli porn are not child molesters, and may in fact be totally against pornography depicting real children because of the emotional, physical, and psychological harm done to them. They feel ok looking at drawn images because no one was harmed to make them, but harm a real child, and most of these people would be disgusted.


I ment regular, non lolicon, hentai. If people viewed drawings as just drawings we wouldn't need to have an age on manga because they are just drawings, right? But there are 18+ manga out there because of the sexual activity. If it's just drawings then hentai wouldn't be sold to people 18+. Do you know how many police officers are out there monitoring chat rooms, message boards,msn messages, etc. making sure they capture child molesters? As we speak there are police monitoring this board. Most child molestors share their pictures with other molesters on the internet. If people who read lolicon feel sorry for children being raped than why are they reading fiction about it? Drawn pictures of children being raped may not harm real children but being aroused by children being raped is wrong.
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grim dreamer



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Aberystwyth, Wales
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:43 pm Reply with quote
"Ki ni shinaide", everyone. One or two of you seem to be growing a little hysterical.

I took the time to read every post and it seems that many are focused on the "objectification of women", "the objectification of men", "child molesters", etc.; failing in their ardour to note that "fan service" also refers to the excessive use of transformation sequences, fight sequences, staring-at-the-horizon-writhing-in-the-depths-of-despair sequences. It may be to enhance the strength of a martial arts move or the intricate details of a particularly smashing mecha, but waste of plot development it is - more so than the quick panty-shots that have riled the sensitive fan.

Now before you question my perspective on "fan service" in regards to "objectification of women", I'll have you know that I am a woman and that I have had experience living in Japan as a woman. It is true that all kinds of anime and manga exist, portraying varying levels of "fan service", but it never goes further than opening the book and having a good stare. Female readers are as great consumers of this type of "fan service" as men, and it comes to a point when even that gets old, as those of you recently on Youtube have discovered through Ouran High School Host Club, which is not as successful as Fruits Basket, but just as effective, in that the "fan service" that "objectifies" men becomes so over-the-top it's cringeworthy, unreal, embarrassing, pretty - excuse me - funny.

"Fan service" is a harmless aspect of entertainment and one that is harmless, as many have already said, if done in privacy, minus public action. I think the only time that people must be troubled by "fan service" is when an individual who has spent too much time on their own watching anime and reading manga comes to be influenced, thinking that perhaps women will act all "kawaii" and cosplay in the bedroom or men will act all "yaoi" and do more things with a rose than a gardener.

To conclude?

Just focus on getting less "fan service" that not only deviates from the plot but also prevents the plot from developing! I mean, seriously, a "kameyameya" must surely take less than five minutes for one who has trained so well!
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cardcaptormanda



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 237
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:35 am Reply with quote
mistress_reebi wrote:
I ment regular, non lolicon, hentai.

Actually, I don't think there's any proof whatsoever that most people who look at child pornography go out and molest children in real life. Some do, of course, but I think "most" is a big exaggeration. People tend to feel safe just thinking about such things through the use of pictures, but very few will ever actually do it.

mistress_reebi wrote:
If it's just drawings then hentai wouldn't be sold to people 18+.

Since it's a drawing depicting adult material, there's no surprise they keep it away from children. Something can be "just a drawing" and "inappropriate for children" at the same time. I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying here.
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Gauss



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 519
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:35 am Reply with quote
mistress_reebi wrote:

Most people who look at child pornography images on the internet are child molesters.

A study of Swedish court records found that 40% of people who were convicted of possessing child pornography had also been convicted of molesting children. Outside the courts the figure is probably lower. After all, when a pedophile gets arrested the police is likely to unearth child pornography during the evidence search. Still, I figure the actual percentage to be alarming enough.

Quote:
Drawings of children being raped is illegal in some countries including Canada.

Including Sweden, though the above study came out before the law changed to include drawn child pornography.
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mistress_reebi



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:07 pm Reply with quote
Gauss wrote:
mistress_reebi wrote:

Most people who look at child pornography images on the internet are child molesters.

A study of Swedish court records found that 40% of people who were convicted of possessing child pornography had also been convicted of molesting children. Outside the courts the figure is probably lower. After all, when a pedophile gets arrested the police is likely to unearth child pornography during the evidence search. Still, I figure the actual percentage to be alarming enough.



When one thinks about it, if they create a habit of being aroused by children being raped, chances are that's not enough for them and they will go out a rape a child. I'm not saying just by looking at a picture of lolicon one will become a child molestor, but it's obvious that if one has a problem with being aroused at children being raped chances are they might go out and do it. It's similar the Dawson Shooting; the shooter had a problem to being with and his escape was violent video games where innocent people are burned, sawed in half, etc. The games weren't satisfying so he went to the college and shot a bunch of people.
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Daemonblue



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 701
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:57 pm Reply with quote
mistress_reebi wrote:
It's similar the Dawson Shooting; the shooter had a problem to being with and his escape was violent video games where innocent people are burned, sawed in half, etc. The games weren't satisfying so he went to the college and shot a bunch of people.


And on that note you've pretty much killed your arguement. By making that one statement you're also basically saying that all people who play violent video games turn out to be murderers. It's not the loli that makes the pedo and it's not the violence that makes the killer, but rather the other way around. A murderer is more likely to play those kinds of games, but how many people do you see going around town blowing each other's heads off with bazookas? I can bet you that number is pretty low.

Same thing with loli and the like, the people who are more likely to commit the crimes will probably have this stuff, yet there's many more people who like this stuff that are not commiting these crimes. It's the difference between saying "Every child molestor has loli/child porn," and "Everyone who has loli/child porn is a child molestor," the former of which is almost always the case, and the latter of which we don't know because we don't know the percentage of people who like loli. As I believe someone mentioned before, most child molestations come out of anger and are usually within the family (or within the church....bad priests...bad) rather than acts to get sexual pleasure from a child. Of course, there have been cases in which people have molested children for pleasure, but that is not nearly as high as the number of molestations that aren't for pleasure.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Daemonblue wrote:
mistress_reebi wrote:
It's similar the Dawson Shooting; the shooter had a problem to being with and his escape was violent video games where innocent people are burned, sawed in half, etc. The games weren't satisfying so he went to the college and shot a bunch of people.


And on that note you've pretty much killed your arguement. By making that one statement you're also basically saying that all people who play violent video games turn out to be murderers. It's not the loli that makes the pedo and it's not the violence that makes the killer, but rather the other way around. A murderer is more likely to play those kinds of games, but how many people do you see going around town blowing each other's heads off with bazookas? I can bet you that number is pretty low.

Same thing with loli and the like, the people who are more likely to commit the crimes will probably have this stuff, yet there's many more people who like this stuff that are not commiting these crimes. It's the difference between saying "Every child molestor has loli/child porn," and "Everyone who has loli/child porn is a child molestor," the former of which is almost always the case, and the latter of which we don't know because we don't know the percentage of people who like loli. As I believe someone mentioned before, most child molestations come out of anger and are usually within the family (or within the church....bad priests...bad) rather than acts to get sexual pleasure from a child. Of course, there have been cases in which people have molested children for pleasure, but that is not nearly as high as the number of molestations that aren't for pleasure.
What your line of thinking isn't taking into account is for what other reason would anyone want to view any form of Loli/child porn whether animated, or live action other than to feed a desire to be a witness of such situations. I put it to you that the only difference between these people is one has acted where the other hasn't had the nerve to as yet, but the potential is still there, and building with every new visual experience. "A means to an end" is what most convicted paedophiles call it. I'd like to see what references state most child molestations are performed out of anger rather than for sexual gratification and pleasure.
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mistress_reebi



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:14 pm Reply with quote
Daemonblue wrote:
mistress_reebi wrote:
It's similar the Dawson Shooting; the shooter had a problem to being with and his escape was violent video games where innocent people are burned, sawed in half, etc. The games weren't satisfying so he went to the college and shot a bunch of people.


And on that note you've pretty much killed your arguement. By making that one statement you're also basically saying that all people who play violent video games turn out to be murderers. It's not the loli that makes the pedo and it's not the violence that makes the killer, but rather the other way around. A murderer is more likely to play those kinds of games, but how many people do you see going around town blowing each other's heads off with bazookas? I can bet you that number is pretty low.

Same thing with loli and the like, the people who are more likely to commit the crimes will probably have this stuff, yet there's many more people who like this stuff that are not commiting these crimes. It's the difference between saying "Every child molestor has loli/child porn," and "Everyone who has loli/child porn is a child molestor," the former of which is almost always the case, and the latter of which we don't know because we don't know the percentage of people who like loli. As I believe someone mentioned before, most child molestations come out of anger and are usually within the family (or within the church....bad priests...bad) rather than acts to get sexual pleasure from a child. Of course, there have been cases in which people have molested children for pleasure, but that is not nearly as high as the number of molestations that aren't for pleasure.


The games he played weren't games average people played. One game he played he was the shooter for Columbine, which was an amateur game he downloaded off the internet. He, like some people who read lolicon, had a problem and instead of fixing it he acted upon it. Normal people don't countinuously play extremely violent video games, where the protaganist kills innocent people, only found off the internet. Normal people also don't get aroused by seeing a child.
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Gauss



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 519
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:32 am Reply with quote
mistress_reebi wrote:
It's similar the Dawson Shooting; the shooter had a problem to being with and his escape was violent video games where innocent people are burned, sawed in half, etc. The games weren't satisfying so he went to the college and shot a bunch of people.

But that was an exception. You might not call the players normal but everybody else who downloaded that game didn't go on a school shooting. If the shooter let a game sway him then he was pretty close to the edge already and something else could have set him off just as well. What's more worrying is how the media manages to make exceptions look like the norm. This creates unnecessary fear among people and restricts everyday behavior. In Sweden they polled young women about how many females they think were murdered each year. The average number given came to 5000 a year. The actual number? Under 40. In short, you have to be extremely wary of perceptions, since they often have little to do with reality.
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mistress_reebi



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:37 am Reply with quote
Gauss wrote:
mistress_reebi wrote:
It's similar the Dawson Shooting; the shooter had a problem to being with and his escape was violent video games where innocent people are burned, sawed in half, etc. The games weren't satisfying so he went to the college and shot a bunch of people.

But that was an exception. You might not call the players normal but everybody else who downloaded that game didn't go on a school shooting. If the shooter let a game sway him then he was pretty close to the edge already and something else could have set him off just as well. What's more worrying is how the media manages to make exceptions look like the norm. This creates unnecessary fear among people and restricts everyday behavior. In Sweden they polled young women about how many females they think were murdered each year. The average number given came to 5000 a year. The actual number? Under 40. In short, you have to be extremely wary of perceptions, since they often have little to do with reality.


He was unstable and the video games didn't infulence him, they weren't enough to satistify his need to kill people. The same effect goes with lolicon; for some, the lolicon isn't enough, so they will rape.
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