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Answerman - Why Do Guys In Yaoi Claim To Be Straight?


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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:02 am Reply with quote
The impression I always got was that yaoi characters who say they're straight do so, narratively, to reinforce the romantic, seductive power of the guy who persuades them into homosexuality. That is, this guy is so strong and so powerful, he can turn straight men gay. As a character, he is highly charismatic and admirable. You see this same thing happening with yuri aimed at straight men sometimes too.

WashuTakahashi wrote:
I'd be more interested in an article that explains what about that the Japanese find sexy xD


There's also that schtick I keep seeing of girls with no arms or torsos. That is, the head connects directly to the legs. I always took that as some kind of memetic joke among hentai artists, but now I wonder if there's something more than that.

WashuTakahashi wrote:
But not everything "Western values" is good or desirable. Yes, LBGT rights should be widespread. NO, they should not be forced into an overnight change. The harder you push, the harder people fight back, and if your supporters are too few, you will fail (As I'm assuming is how things would turn out in Japan as they don't have as many gays or at least aren't as outspoken about being gay) The reason America is making so many advances in LBGT rights now is because the younger generation (say, mid 20s and younger) are WAY more accepting of gays than any generation before them. We were the first to be brought up in a world where being gay wasn't completely hush-hush. Good or bad, it was talked about, which made it more familiar. And that's why the younger generation's opinions on gays tend to lean towards "Well, they love each other. What's wrong with that?" If the current progress was rioted for 20 years ago (it probably was, I haven't researched the topic too deeply) it would have failed. Drastic change cannot happen quickly, not unless you're knocking down people's doors with guns and forcing them to think a certain way, and those methods are never useful. People that have been raised to hate or fear gays will likely always hate or fear them, even if it's to a much lesser degree as being gay becomes more "normal". But with each new generation, that irrational fear and hate will lessen, until it's no big deal and gays have the same rights as everyone else.


In addition, most western nations have cultures that encourage protest and fighting to get what you want. LGBT rights in countries like the United States and United Kingdom have advanced as far as they have because the communities in past decades and in the present have been fighting tooth and nail to get those rights. As mentioned in the article, Japanese culture encourages people to simply fit in and not make a fuss, which makes all social change much slower, even if the populace at large might see it as undesirable.

Usagi-kun wrote:
I can also speak as someone who may not adhere to the traditional sense of gende and identity, but knowing the difference between a relationship built on love and a relationship built on lust is an important rung in a very long ladder.


Heh, that reminds me of an Extra Credits video about romance in games where the narrator had to point out, "not sex, but romance." Shows how immature a lot of gamers are that this distinction had to be pointed out. (Guys like Christian Weston Chandler, the Sonichu guy, still hasn't figured it out: He thinks romance is just a pretense to have sex and that the purpose of marriage is to have sex legally.)

EricJ2 wrote:
Savion wrote:
Also amazed at multiple people falling for someone's sarcastic pseudo-progressive comments lol.


Well, that's the problem of parody, when it sounds so dangerously close to the real thing


I have met people who really, really want to instantly undo homophobia and institute overnight full rights into countries with a strong anti-homosexual bent and think it can be done. They are the people who openly identify themselves as political radicals and proud of it.

I definitely wasn't sure if that comment was sarcastic, troll bait, or serious for that reason.

MrTerrorist wrote:
Good article.
Maybe in the future, manga and anime will portray LGBT relationships more accurately.


Audiences don't necessarily want accuracy though. If they did, naked dinosaurs would be long gone in modern fiction.
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MrBonk



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:53 am Reply with quote
WashuTakahashi wrote:
Cutiebunny wrote:
hentai aimed at straight men usually makes me laugh with its copious amounts of body fluid.


I still watch it anyways, but every time it gets to the scene of "please fill my womb!" I just lose it. What's so hot about a scene of the inside of a vagina getting filled with sperm? And it's in at least 50% of hentai (probably more...) Though that's not as bad as the ones that show you the inside of the vagina DURING. Like...nope...not what I came here for...

I'd be more interested in an article that explains what about that the Japanese find sexy xD

I'm a straight guy, not a wizard nor a virgin. And I personally find those scenes always hot and extremely arousing. (I sort of have a fetish for cream and body fluid as it is)

There's just something about a woman wanting every bit of you inside her and wanting your hot cream cheese is the final proverbial icing on the cake. A lust and willful acceptance for your entire being. Not submissively, but in becoming one'ish.

Laughing

I shit you not I am not being sarcastic or anything.
I have actually thought about this over the years. Anime hyper
The stories and characters are usually stand ins and it's the idea of the fantasy that helps drive it home.

I realize Hentai aimed at men is not realistic and what not, but as we all know. The same is true really of any of this kind of stuff. Yaoi,etc.


Even RL romance novels, especially geared towards women and young women. (IE the Divergent series wouldn't be half bad if not for the shoehorned in cliche and inane, aimed at young women,romance subplot) That stuff drives me crazy.

At the same time, I can't stand submissive women tropes, like in Japanese adult videos. Or NSFW. It's different than what I described above about the cream cheese.
And is partially summed by this earlier statement
Puniyo wrote:
To be honest, the main appeal of BL manga for me as a female, is that the couple is equal.
They can switch being dominant and there's no 'weak female that needs to be protected'. It's a hard thing to explain, but it's something ingrained in me by society and yaoi's a nice escape from it. The guy usually actually has concern for his partner and is careful not to hurt him too during such scenes, which isn't something that happens often in straight stuff.
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Errinundra
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Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Remember, ANN is PG13.
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raich8



Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:07 pm Reply with quote
Re: LGBT identity, there does seem to be more of a trend where at least one half of a couple in yaoi will ID as gay/bi. I think this definitely has something to do with increased awareness and access to information about homosexuality in Japan's younger set. There's a significant generational gap in terms of acceptance/tolerance of LGBTs in quite a few developed countries, but it's very pronounced in Japan.

I find it interesting, as an aside, that quite a few lesbians, Japanese and otherwise, seem to like yaoi. Maybe the homosexuality/gender atypicality stuff helped them sort out their own feelings?
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:49 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
(Guys like Christian Weston Chandler, the Sonichu guy, still hasn't figured it out: He thinks romance is just a pretense to have sex and that the purpose of marriage is to have sex legally.)


Boy, is he in for a disappointment! Razz
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:50 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Heh, that reminds me of an Extra Credits video about romance in games where the narrator had to point out, "not sex, but romance." Shows how immature a lot of gamers are that this distinction had to be pointed out. (Guys like Christian Weston Chandler, the Sonichu guy, still hasn't figured it out: He thinks romance is just a pretense to have sex and that the purpose of marriage is to have sex legally.)
Well it started out that way. To me and her-in-doors romance without eventual sex is like eating a jam bum without the jam in the middle. Disappointing in the end, but the same youth you mentioned earlier seem to have abandoned that notion of marrage as well. Wink
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:14 pm Reply with quote
errinundra wrote:
Remember, ANN is PG13.

Forget that. Now I can't look at my bagel with cream cheese the same way. Way beyond TMI.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:46 am Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
Boy, is he in for a disappointment! Razz


Oh, he's been disappointed for at least 20 years. He just keeps blocking them out of his memory, though he does get increasingly frustrated with time. No one wants to marry someone insane like CWC anyway.

Mohawk52 wrote:
Well it started out that way. To me and her-in-doors romance without eventual sex is like eating a jam bum without the jam in the middle. Disappointing in the end, but the same youth you mentioned earlier seem to have abandoned that notion of marrage as well. Wink


It started out that way. Then, the cavemen decided to stop bonking women on the head and dragging them by their hair back into the caves.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:08 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:

It started out that way. Then, the cavemen decided to stop bonking women on the head and dragging them by their hair back into the caves.
Me Granny told me it was the other way round, but the men just said that to not be slagged by their mates. Laughing
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:08 pm Reply with quote
Ignoring the not safe for lunch aspects of MrBonk's post, it really seems tied into the whole "going blank/insane from pleasure" trope. If they're not playing that card, the babbling about shooting into her womb isn't apt to happen(you may still get a more sensible version of the request, though).
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Clyde_Cash



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:51 pm Reply with quote
WashuTakahashi wrote:
But not everything "Western values" is good or desirable. Yes, LBGT rights should be widespread. NO, they should not be forced into an overnight change. The harder you push, the harder people fight back, and if your supporters are too few, you will fail (As I'm assuming is how things would turn out in Japan as they don't have as many gays or at least aren't as outspoken about being gay) The reason America is making so many advances in LBGT rights now is because the younger generation (say, mid 20s and younger) are WAY more accepting of gays than any generation before them. We were the first to be brought up in a world where being gay wasn't completely hush-hush. Good or bad, it was talked about, which made it more familiar. And that's why the younger generation's opinions on gays tend to lean towards "Well, they love each other. What's wrong with that?" If the current progress was rioted for 20 years ago (it probably was, I haven't researched the topic too deeply) it would have failed. Drastic change cannot happen quickly, not unless you're knocking down people's doors with guns and forcing them to think a certain way, and those methods are never useful. People that have been raised to hate or fear gays will likely always hate or fear them, even if it's to a much lesser degree as being gay becomes more "normal". But with each new generation, that irrational fear and hate will lessen, until it's no big deal and gays have the same rights as everyone else.

While it'd be nice to wake up in a world where gays, blacks, etc, weren't discriminated in tomorrow morning, it's simply not going to happen. It'll take years, probably decades.


You are plain wrong. Western values are the only correct values. it is a fact of history that Western culture is superior to everything else. We have the only correct values and morals. EVERYTHING about Westernization is good, because I said so. Nobody has the right to oppose modernization. We have to force people who won't learn whether they want to or not. What other people want is of no consequence and never will be.

There is no place for differences in culture and never will be. This is a fact. LBGT rights do not have exceptions in any case. They are absolute. No nation gets to decide otherwise. Human rights will not work one way in America and another in japan. If they won't learn, we have the right to finish what Roosevelt started and force them to. War is the only language that homophobic nations will ever understand. We Americans are the supreme nation of all. We rule the entire world and have every right to dictate what other peoples can and can't do. We have the right values, and everyone else must submit to our authority or we'll nuke them all as punishment.

American liberty does not stop at imaginary lines drawn on a map of a blue planet. It extends to the entire universe.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Irregardless of whether you're being satirical, you've clearly mixed up Japan with the middle east - and that alone lets me blithely dismiss anything and everything you may have to say on the matter.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:31 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
. No one wants to marry someone insane like CWC anyway.


If serial killers and their like can find love, then anybody can.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:14 pm Reply with quote
Well, he's been trying for well over a decade with his Attraction Signs, which read like something from the newspaper's Personals pages ("I am a (A)-year old male looking for a female with (qualifications)"). He writes them onto cardboard picket signs, then hangs out somewhere for a few hours quietly holding it up. He wants THEM to come to HIM and initiate conversation.

Apparently, in 2010, he was discovered to have bought a shirt that says "I Want Vagina!," which he uses while holding up the sign. Clearly, all he really wants is sex. (And to have a child, apparently.)

What he knows about romance and sex he learned from his mother Barbara, who was sexually aggressive when she was younger. Some of Barbara's anecdotes border on female-to-male rape. Chris seems to have created ideas about women based on Barbara's tales and thinks that women are all sexually aggressive as well. If the Sonichu comics are a reflection of what he really thinks, he also thinks that women want to strip naked in public but can't do so because some stuck-up government people prohibited it, that what married couples do all day is have sex and sweet-talk each other when not having sex until they have children, and that the only things women care about are shopping, cooking for men, and sex.

In short, serial killers can find love and get married because they have tact and can behave like normal people because they understand how normal people behave. Chris, on the other hand, is more stubborn than a mule and has already convinced himself he knows what his potential spouse wants.

Maybe there IS a young woman out there who finds Chris attractive; who is attractive herself; cares only about shopping, cooking for him (and him alone), and sex; will put up with whatever amount of abuse he has; has a high-paying job to provide Chris with financial support; likes to strip naked; has never been married; is willing to move in with him; does not mind (or likes) his past criminal transgressions; can bear a child; and will provide all the emotional support Chris needs. He will not find her at a Target dining area while he's holding up a sign and drinking soda.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:26 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Well, he's been trying for well over a decade with his Attraction Signs, which read like something from the newspaper's Personals pages ("I am a (A)-year old male looking for a female with (qualifications)"). He writes them onto cardboard picket signs, then hangs out somewhere for a few hours quietly holding it up. He wants THEM to come to HIM and initiate conversation.
Now he can just use the countless number of quicky dating, or speed dating apps available today. Laughing
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