Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World-
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Pierrot.
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I'd like to remind everyone that Wilhelm's flashback was just snippets of what happened between him and Theresia. The EX novel goes more in detail.
The EX novels won't be covered in the anime so you can check this and see what actually happened. https://www.reddit.com/r/Re_Zero/comments/4t2tzn/lnspoiler_about_astrea_family/ |
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zrnzle500
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^That explains a lot and confirms my impression of Theresia on the matter of Wilhelm more or less
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Blametruth
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i dont agree at all with B+ for ep 21, personally i thought it was definetly one of the best episodes, if not the best so far. a high A++ for me
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2306 |
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Just read the latest review myself. Have to agree on the latter half being overwritten, particularly the Subaru-Crusch conversation and her falling over herself to heap him with praise. Certainly he was pivotal to their victory, and I don't think it's implausible that he'd be able to leverage that into getting her to lend him support and/or having Wilmhelm tag along to play with Betelgeuse, but for a show that's typically very grounded, everyone falling over themselves one-after-the-other to volunteer to help out Subaru on the heels of a sobering, terrible battle seemed mercurially, narratively convenient and tonally out-of-place.
edit: Thanks for the link, Pierrot. That clears up some plot detail; I feel like it could've been clarified within the show itself, but I don't think it's something that needed to be cleared up (although it might've been more emotionally impactful if it had).
I think this is a natural reaction; I felt similarly. I think it's a product of A) the whale fight literally being secondary to the main plot (just an incidental-if-impossible obstacle Subaru has to remove before dealing with the Witch's Cult) and B) hurried flashbacks never really being all that emotionally satisfying, and the only person (Wilhelm) for whom this fight could have been an emotional highlight getting exactly the flashback treatment. |
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msvitch
Posts: 68 |
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sometimes i just wanna stab the critic who wrote this review.
B+ ? REALLY?????? this deserves beyond A+!! |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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Chill out dude |
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msvitch
Posts: 68 |
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i bet the critic was pausing the episode frame by frame to identify the tiniest bit of fault to shit on the show but failed to do so. and now making an excuse by giving it a B+ |
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Mitrospeed
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I see that a lot of people seem to misunderstand this whole dynamic between Willhelm and Theresia.
Let me point your towards an incredible enlightening article on Crunchyroll about this: http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2016/08/18/feature-rezero-and-the-white-whale Now to express how I perceived this entire little backstory ( which is only a tiny part of what's acutual behind their story by the way ) We see two people, one driven by a clear goal and one forced into a role she doesn’t want to live for. Willhelm lives for the sword and it’s all he has. Because of that his goal gives him a perspective in life. On the other side we do know that Theresia despises to wield the sword but her status as the Sword Saint forces her to live for it. She's put into shackles by her family name, her standing and her role. After some time we recognize a certain change in how Willhelm expresses his goal. He doesn’t have the sword as the sole reason for following his goal anymore. Instead he wields his weapon in order to protect others ( the context of the scene heavily implies that Theresia is one of the people he wants to protect ). Eventually we see Willhelm almost getting killed but he is saved by Theresia. Due to the loss Willhelm is ashamed of his failure and that he had to be saved. What’s even worse is that through his own failure he forced Theresia to take action and wield the sword which as we known is something she despises entirely. On top of that Willhelm learns that Theresia was the Sword Saint all along, someone who is superior to him in any way. This is a really takes a toll on his pride because she is so much superior to him, not through devotion and effort but through the blessing of the Sword Saint. But when Theresia says that wielding the sword in order to protect someone is not even bad, a really great mix of various values and emotions emerges from their relationship. Theresia sacrifices her own happiness in life to wield the sword for a reason that she took from Willhelm. While it is a lifegoal for Willhelm that developed through probably many hardships, Theresia simply takes it away from him and pursues it in his stead. She doesn’t live for it, she isn’t happy with it, it’s not all she has and it’s not all she wants. It’s a selfless act in order to protect someone from throwing away his life by chasing after a dream that he most likely can’t fulfill ( War waged at that time and the mortality rate of knights was through the roof ). At the end Willhelm promises to take the sword away from her which means that he will work to fulfill both of their dreams. His dream is to wield a weapon in order to protect and Theresia’s dream is to be free from what she is burdened with and enjoy the happiness of life which is expressed through flowers. We even hear Willhelm saying that he doesn't hate flowers anymore which means that he is fully accepting and embracing Theresia's values in life. By taking away the sword from her life he would achieve both and that’s exactly what we see in episode 21. Willhelm makes her stop pursuing a dream that isn't hers and instead allows her to live her dream while he achieved his at the same time. By looking at this whole dynamic like that the Whale suddenly becomes a lot more than the beast that took his wife’s life. It’s a symbol of failure because he wasn’t able to pursue his dream until the very end of their lives. You could also see it as another milestone for him to overcome as this beast was able to force his wife to wield the sword again and it even beat her. By killing it he can surpass her once again just like he did in the scene of this episode and reach at least some sort of peace. But most of all he becomes a man worthy of his dream and his wife even though he couldn’t fulfill his dream in the end. It’s really sad if you think about it. Theresia could not live up to Willhelm’s dream and paid her life for it. Willhelm could as well not live up to his dream and lost what’s most important to him. Last edited by Mitrospeed on Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18194 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Granted, although I still feel like the way Wilhelm put it made it sound more like the former than the latter. (And yes, I knew the intent of what he said.) A minor adjustment to the wording in that scene would have probably solved that issue.
I had this thought myself. Gonna stink up that part of the road for ages to come. . .
Seriously; follow zrnzle500's advice, and consider that a Moderator warning. Besides, I think I articulated pretty specifically why I gave it a lower rating, and based on the past page or so of comments, I'm far from alone on seeing those flaws. You'll just have to accept that not everyone saw it as perfectly as you did. (And it isn't like I haven't given this series that high a grade in the past. . .) |
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michizure
Posts: 177 |
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Concur on the flashbacks, but disagree on this point. It's pretty clear from the aftermath that, far from being a sideshow or secondary to the plot, this whale fight and Subaru's role are crucial to resolving this loop. The additional resources and volunteers he brings to the fight as a result of this event are what will (presumably) enable him to defeat the Witch's Cult in the next. Imagine the complaining here if the whale battle had been abbreviated, but Subaru suddenly had all kinds of people lining up to help him. It had to be a significant event to justify the change in perception. |
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whiskeyii
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Agreed. That's why I worded my sentence with "what we got" seems like it's playing into tired, old tropes, even though I know the intent is otherwise. Could a more fleshed-out portrayal have gone a long way towards equalizing that relationship? Sure. But the flashbacks also had god-awful lines like "someone with a face as pretty as yours shouldn't wield a sword". Like, what the ever-loving heck?! Not to mention that "saving" someone from their dutiful burden flirts with the very tired damsel-in-distress idea, except that the damsel's trappings are internal rather than external. I'd contrast them with, say, the hero and heroine of Alderamin of the Sky, who make for a Battle Couple on much more even footing. Though to be fair, even a detailed summary like the one Pierrot. linked to can't demonstrate the actual execution of that storyline. It could still be cliche and yet satisfying, rather than trope-y and old, but I won't know that for sure without getting my hands on the novels. But as it stands in regards to Re:Zero, it just feels like a let-down when compared to how much more fully actualized the other side characters feel in terms of ambitions and motivations. |
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NeverConvex
Subscriber Posts: 2306 |
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Yes, this is fair, and I agree with all of it. I didn't mean my reply as a call for truncating the fight; I think it deserved the screen time it was allocated, given its importance to the narrative and the role it plays in Subaru's most recent redemptive sub-arc. What I meant by 'secondary' is just that Subaru's not motivated primarily by the whale; if the viewer identifies with Subaru's goals, which is probably typical given that he's the MC, then it's natural to think of this fight as of strictly instrumental importance. It's a means rather than an end, and I think it's natural as a viewer to experience it as of diminished emotional/experiential importance because of that, even if it is of first-order importance in the sense that, without it, Subaru could not progress towards his true goal. Last edited by NeverConvex on Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Silver4000
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Some random comments that were commenting on the matter and I decided to give my opinion.
I believe that the bromance between Subara and Crusch just happened because he was the idiot who kept going towards certain death, while she was the experienced warrior (I suppose) who after showing all the determination, was starting to feel fear. So her bond to Subaru was around a similar level as of Wilhelm. And given that sometimes some light novel adaptation use some content from the extra volumes (just like in SAO) I'm guessing that the flashbacks were taken from the EX volume, instead of the main volume. And on a particular note, I would feel admiration of an idiot who would travel on a big particle of Ice just to stand on top of a murderer whale (and then jump, that also applies for a real whale from our world, but without the big particle of ice, and the jumping, the guy would most likely die from that). And Subaru was a pivotal part of the battle, so I feel a reason for some people to stand around and help him (besides, they know who he's going to face, which happens to be the enemy of everyone, so that's another reason). |
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Pierrot.
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I blame the way Willhelm's lines were translated but what he actually meant was Theresia's dissatisfaction with her role. His lines were more were more like "Don't wield a sword with such expression" in Japanese.
Actually, the summary in the link is a very condensed version of their backstory. 
Edit: This isn't the first time some lines were mistranslated in the series like Otto saying "first Master Swordsman", where it should have been "previous Master Swordsman" in episode 17. |
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WeNTuS
Posts: 65 |
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Well, Subaru is getting help because of agreement with Crucsh and his new hero status helped with that too. It's not like these people randomly decide to join him.
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