×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Izetta: The Last Witch


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:09 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
I do agree that the attitude of Germania seems more in line with the Empire of Germany than the Third Reich, except that a keen interest in the occult was much more Hitler's thing.

In episode three, there is a reference to the Germanian "Emperor" in the CR translation. We also haven't seen any of the usual Nazi paraphernalia or representatives of the SS. It depicts WWII as more of the usual conflict among great powers like WWI rather than driven by a psychotic regime.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1idd0kun



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:12 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:

whiskeyii wrote:
Blindly devoted "friends" just don't work for me

What's blind about her devotion? You just spent a paragraph listing all the stellar attributes Fine possesses, which Izetta can see just clearly as you can. She's devoted to her because she's proved worthy of her devotion. If she seems too deferential to you, it's because she lives in a society where she and Fine are not equals (even if Izetta was not already looked down on for being an outsider), and I think it's asking a bit much of her to just throw all that social baggage off as if it had no weight. I doubt her grandmother taught her the kind of magic needed for that.


Still, the fact that Izetta can't even see herself as worthy of being Fine's friend is pretty sad, specially because Fine does see Izetta as her dearest friend. Personally, I think one of the main points of this story is gonna be how Izetta gains enough self-esteem to have a more equal relationship with Fine, at least enough to be able to say "you're my best friend" at the end.

That been said, I don't think Izetta got involved in the war out of devotion or a sense of obligation towards Fine. I think she just wanted to help someone she cares about. As simple as that.

On a related note I hope we'll get to see some cracks on Fine's perfect character soon. Right now she's more like a pinnacle of virtue than an actual character, and that sort of characterization feels kind of empty to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23826
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:35 pm Reply with quote
1idd0kun wrote:
On a related note I hope we'll get to see some cracks on Fine's perfect character soon. Right now she's more like a pinnacle of virtue than an actual character, and that sort of characterization feels kind of empty to me.


I would never argue against interesting characterization. However, in an adventure story like this, I have to admit, I don't really need deeply nuanced and pyschologically complex characters. Thanks to a decade's worth of cable anti-heroes, I don't mind following a decent human being for a change. I also like the fact that Fine doesn't have all the answers. She has a moral compass which guides her, but beyond that she's grappling for answers to her country's plight. That's pretty much all I need to be engaged.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
1idd0kun



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:00 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
However, in an adventure story like this, I have to admit, I don't really need deeply nuanced and pyschologically complex characters.


I'm not asking for something super complex, but even Izetta's mix of self-deprecation and courage makes for a more nuanced character, and that's not particularly deep. The princess is just a paragon of virtue, a symbol or ideal more than an actual person. Putting aside my personal preferences, that sort of characterization is pretty limiting, narratively-wise.

That said, I'll feel relatively satisfied as long as the show keeps delivering on the Izetta front, both action and character growth. Just give me more awkward yet badass, kind-hearted yet deadly witch and I'll be okay.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SayuriUliana



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:33 am Reply with quote
Merida wrote:


Agreed. And while attacks from the enemy seem to leave some actual bodies behind at the very least, when Izetta kills dozens, it just looks...pretty? We even get pretty music to go with it. Also her being troubled by killing people from ep.1 seems to have completely vanished within an episode...


Actually, not having bloody bodies is part of Izetta's character: she doesn't deliberately kill when she doesn't have to, even if she won't shy away from doing so when it's necessary. Note how she never skewers anyone out in the open with her lances or swords, and in the case of the latter she just has her swords scare and suppress the enemy, despite the fact that it would've been all too easy for her to just stab enemies with them like she did with the planes.

However, she can't grant the same mercies to the aircraft and tanks, and so she goes all out in taking them out knowing that she may kill the people inside them. Note that the reason Izetta ran right into that tree was because she was looking sadly at a wreck of an aircraft she shot down, indicating that her view regarding killing is still intact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2247
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:12 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
whiskeyii wrote:
Not so much gore as stronger emotional investment. If I compared Izetta to its closest cousin, Alderamin of the Sky, Alderamin has a much stronger ability to make you care about the troops on the ground, and I just didn't get that with Jonas.

If you're referring to whom I think you're referring to then that's an unfair comparison, as the character you're talking about in Alderamin had multiple episodes to build that up, whereas episode 3 was the first appearance of Jonas.

Quote:
Raising the stakes somehow would've gone a long way to making me care, because as it stood, I was way more intrigued by the Lt. General who was preoccupied with evacuating the city. :/

Not really sure what you're wanting here, then. I thought the stakes were plenty high enough (the soldiers on the ground were facing being overrun if not killed off by the bombing strikes, and the lives of loved ones could be at stake if they didn't hold out) and the series conveyed that plenty well enough. I'll grant you that Jonas is pretty generic as representative characters go, but I also found that to be part of the point. He was supposed to be representative of Joe Solider.


Apologies for the late reply; I was (and still technically am) in the middle of moving. You give me too much credit though. Laughing I compared this to Alderamin purely for superficial reasons: a fairly large and diverse cast, and it's dedication to war as a setting. Though I do know who you're referring to, I only read scans of Alderamin, as the anime's art style was too off-putting for me to immerse myself in, so I'm not wholly familiar with the anime's breakdown of plot points. :/

Generally my irritation is predicated on the assumption that Jonas will be a recurring character, rather than a throwaway one--if he is a throwaway character, than his blandness is less perplexing, as he's basically the equivalent of a recreation actor in a History Channel special.

But for someone who we might be following, I just thought he was too milquetoast, and his character did nothing to heighten the war scenes. I just needed a little something extra, something to relate to, for me to care about this guy; nothing major--it could be something as small as being clumsy, or well-liked, or from a military family, anything really, to make him more than just "the new guy", because his rookie status doesn't engage me on an emotional level; heck, having his squad (or platoon, or whatever; military formations are not my forte) just needle him or tease him would've gone a long way to making him feel just a little more well-fleshed out, and given me something to care about.

Though to be clear, it's not like Jonas' presence sparks undying rage in me or anything, I just find it a really, really odd choice of direction, which kind of sums up my general feelings about Izetta as a show right now.

@Gina Szanboti
If you re-read the post you pulled my quote from, you'll notice that I stated I expect Izetta to mature into her own person, just that I don't care for blind devotion as a character trait. It's one thing if it's just low self-esteem (like Deku of My Hero Academia); it's quite another if you're slavishly devoting yourself to another person. And unfortunately the only other example that comes to mind right now is the very complex and nuanced Anthy of Utena--which is admittedly a very unfair comparison, so it's probably affecting some of my expectations here. ^^;
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11404
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:24 am Reply with quote
But my issue was and is with your characterization of her devotion as being blind. It's not. Blind implies not seeing the beloved's faults, but If there's a problem here, it's that so far, Fine has no faults for Izetta to see. It would be odd for anyone to not be devoted to such a paragon of perfection as Fine (especially if they'd risked their life to save yours), and would come across as jealousy or blind contrariness.

And she still went into battle against Fine's express wishes, which tells me she is her own person despite her devotion. Her manner may be subservient, but again, I think this is a product of the surrounding culture, in which everyone is subservient to royalty/nobility.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2247
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:13 pm Reply with quote
Fair enough, though I do think there's a marked difference between the commanding officer's subservience to Fine and Izetta's "I'm not worthy to be your friend" shtick. For me, Izetta reminds me too much of what I disliked about Rem's hero-worship of Subaru in Re:Zero, so I'm basically in "here we go again Rolling Eyes " mode.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1idd0kun



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:34 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Fair enough, though I do think there's a marked difference between the commanding officer's subservience to Fine and Izetta's "I'm not worthy to be your friend" shtick. For me, Izetta reminds me too much of what I disliked about Rem's hero-worship of Subaru in Re:Zero, so I'm basically in "here we go again Rolling Eyes " mode.


Think about it. Izetta grew up ostracised for being a witch. She said she hated herself and her powers as a child, but meeting Fine made her like herself a little. Then Fine gets hurt protecting her and Izetta starts blaming herself. What little self-esteem she gained hanging out with Fine, she lost it when the princess got hurt.

Izetta loves Fine (and Fine loves Izetta, for that matter) but more than subservience, what I see in her attitude towards Fine is self-deprecation. When she says she's not worthy of Fine's gratitude or being her friend, it's her low self-esteem and her misplaced guilt over Fine getting hurt for her sake talking.

That been said, Izetta has started a hero journey in this episode, and I'm pretty sure she will grow as a person as she walks the path of Eylstadt's legendary savior. Let's have a little patience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11404
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:59 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Fair enough, though I do think there's a marked difference between the commanding officer's subservience to Fine and Izetta's "I'm not worthy to be your friend" shtick.

Well, the commanding officer has a position of authority on which to stand that Izetta does not. If Fine's on a pedestal, he at least has an apple box. Izetta only recently got shoes. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:20 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:

In episode three, there is a reference to the Germanian "Emperor" in the CR translation. We also haven't seen any of the usual Nazi paraphernalia or representatives of the SS. It depicts WWII as more of the usual conflict among great powers like WWI rather than driven by a psychotic regime.


Agree on the depiction overall, but they had some Germanian officers with slightly different uniforms and runes very similar to that of the SS lighting bolts on the collar, or so I saw.

The CR translation was definitely wrong in episode 4 for dealing with Izetta's father. He's the ruling prince of a small Germanish principality, so either Prince or Grand Duke would have been fine, but not Archduke. Also "Your Excellency" was definitely wrong for her father (would only be appropriate as a prince consort from a non royal family, or a non-royal noble who married in), either "Your Royal Highness" or "Your Serene Highness" would have been fine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:50 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
The CR translation was definitely wrong in episode 4 for dealing with Izetta's father. He's the ruling prince of a small Germanish principality, so either Prince or Grand Duke would have been fine, but not Archduke. Also "Your Excellency" was definitely wrong for her father (would only be appropriate as a prince consort from a non royal family, or a non-royal noble who married in), either "Your Royal Highness" or "Your Serene Highness" would have been fine.


If they are wrong to call him Archduke, they have been wrong from the beginning. That seems more like the author not knowing the minutiae of the proper titles for European nobility. The "Your Excellency" does seem to be a translation error, as they used the word 殿下 (Denka) which is translated Your (Royal) Highness not Your Excellency, which is 閣下 (Kakka).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 2528
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:15 am Reply with quote
Just checked out Ep1, will catch up quickly as this show seems fairly good and the country names aren't too much of a distraction but I had to laugh as Livonia is where I grew up! It's a suburb of Detroit...Smile Also German/Prussian so I'm liking that they are really trying to make that connection. As for surprise that there isn't a maniacal despot in the show, well Entschuldigungen Sie (literally excuse you)! This is an alternate Earth, so maybe Wilhelm didn't get too aggressive or maybe the Allies didn't try to "shaft" Germany which set the stage for the Nazis and Hitler.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:35 am Reply with quote
Positives: Does almost everything right that Maria did wrong, especially not undermining its main characters.

Cons: A little overly sentimental, which is a problem with lots of anime, so it annoys me that it is something that anime writers seem to have such a hard time staying away from.

Izetta and Princess are both likable and so far, their connection and bond makes sense. I suppose there could be some yuri potential there, but it has not even been hinted at. Thus far they are presented as friends who would put their lives on the line for each other.

Wasn't sure I could buy into the whole riding of huge rifle rather than broom thing, and it still comes across as a bit goofy, but I really liked Darker than Black Gemini of the Meteor so fine.

Overall, it's nothing spectacular yet, but could build to something. Maybe it won't crap out at the end like Kabeneri of the Iron Fortress did.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2212
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:37 am Reply with quote
I liked seeing those crazy eyes on Izetta.

But United States of Atlanta? Seriously?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 3 of 18

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group