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NeoStrayCat



Joined: 14 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:59 pm Reply with quote
Well, at least those points in the article make sense, as there's risks involved, and out of the 2 KS Anime projects (Escaflowne already out, and Skip Beat yet to be released.) At least those went out with success, but yeah, the managing of all the backend stuff does kinda make it rough.

Though yeah, the prospect of more titles would be nice, but then again, everything else later gets harder to manage.
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:07 pm Reply with quote
I did not know that using Kickstarter to fund anime releases could be such a headache. Still, I would like to see small publishers do crowd funding if it is worth it for them.

I take this opportunity to again berate Funimation for their Escaflowne Kickstarter. Their sorry ass excuse of "trying to gouge interest" was always laughable and disingenuous. Of course there was interest. It is freaking Escaflowne, which is one of the most beloved anime classics in North America.

EDIT: I meant to say gauge, but gouge might work better. Razz


Last edited by angelmcazares on Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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silentjay



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:54 pm Reply with quote
Gauge. They wanted to gauge interest.

That said, They really didn't know if there was still a market for it post-Bandai. Sure, it's beloved by folks of a certain age, but a lot of those folks of a certain age are at the certain age where they start moving away from fandom. Also, and this is the big point, they wanted to know if folks really wanted a dub, as those fans that stick around also tend to be allergic to dubs.

For me, I'm happy with the budget Bandai release I have. If Funi release a budget combined edition (with or without the movie), I'd likely consider picking it up. As it stands, there really isn't a burning desire to replace my perfectly fine copy, director's cut or not, for something that's not all that different. I'm sure that there are others in the same boat as I am.


Last edited by silentjay on Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CatSword



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Anime Sols tried to be a large funding program for classic anime. Unfortunately it didn't work out.
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TheMorry



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:18 pm Reply with quote
I bet Funimation will start a kickstarter for banner of the stars 1 and 2 + crest of the stars. Because the current dub is just so bad while the anime itself is amazing. I think somewhere in 2017 Funimation will start a KS funding campain.

Unless anyone disagree with me about the quality of the dub? I tried to watch it but the dub puts me off. I know i love Escaflowne but the previous dub i didn't like so much. Both those old dubs suffer from the VA doesnt sound "clear" and "natural"..
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:23 pm Reply with quote
I never doubted Escaflowne's potential for success, though I did question the need for a new dub, so I wasn't a big fan of Funimation's Kickstarter. I do wonder if it was a trial run for Speed Racer, a show that could genuinely use a new dub, but demand is a total question mark. The audience for that is going to be nostalgic boomers who couldn't care less that what they watched as a kid wasn't the most faithful of adaptations plus animation historians who'd either want to watch the Japanese version or the original English one.

CatSword wrote:
Anime Sols tried to be a large funding program for classic anime. Unfortunately it didn't work out.


The problem with Anime Sols was that the majority of the titles they selected had 0 history in North America. No hack dubs or even fansubs for a lot of them. Cool for animation geeks, but not so cool for even an older fan. On top of that, they were on their own platform which greatly limited visibility.
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relyat08



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:36 pm Reply with quote
silentjay wrote:
Gauge. They wanted to gauge interest.


Nah, gouge is right. It sure felt like that's what they were doing to the show's fans at least... Sad

The many kickstarter projects that I've been a part of have all been successful in meeting there goal, but at least one of them, UTD, was hugely unsuccessful when it came to actual finances in the long term. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mai Mai Miracle is also probably not making any money at this point. Anyway, I agree with Justin. I think kickstarter is largely more of a headache than it is probably worth for a lot of companies. Robert Woodhead seems to have a pretty great handle on how to run a good one, but companies like Funimation, with their frustrating and insulting Escaflowne project, UTD, with their extraneous and internal production issues, and even Time of Eve, which apparently barely made any money even with their incredible funding due to shipping and rewards production, makes it seem like something that definitely needs to be researched extensively before moving forward.
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Parsifal24



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:46 pm Reply with quote
I'll see how the Sentai release of Legend of The Galactic Heroes goes but I kind feel that would benefit from some kind of crowd funding campaign. It'd be nice to see more obscure titles get picked up but yeah there is a lot of cost and overhead involved in running a Kickstarter that simply selling through a retailer doe not have.
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Blanchimont



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Primus wrote:
The problem with Anime Sols was that the majority of the titles they selected had 0 history in North America. No hack dubs or even fansubs for a lot of them. Cool for animation geeks, but not so cool for even an older fan. On top of that, they were on their own platform which greatly limited visibility.

It didn't help that they were basically limited to North America either.
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Brand



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:15 pm Reply with quote
Also almost nobody had heard of Anime Sols until it was to late.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:50 pm Reply with quote
Primus wrote:
CatSword wrote:
Anime Sols tried to be a large funding program for classic anime. Unfortunately it didn't work out.


The problem with Anime Sols was that the majority of the titles they selected had 0 history in North America. No hack dubs or even fansubs for a lot of them. Cool for animation geeks, but not so cool for even an older fan. On top of that, they were on their own platform which greatly limited visibility.


I think it's possible for "completely unknown" anime (in North America) to succeed via crowdfunding, but Anime Sols had some nagging issues that just couldn't be fixed without completely reworking the entire concept of the site. The first was the fact that it wasn't utilizing Kickstarter, which Primus brought up. Sols was conceived before KS started up & approved by the involved companies because they had complete control & all of the money, but by the time the site actually launched, KS had blown up & most people were already of the mind of "KS or bust", which meant that Anime Sols had immediately lost a lot of any potential support it could have had. Even Skip Beat originally failed on IndieGoGo because anime fans had taken up the "KS or bust" mindset.

Second, & even more importantly, was the fact that Anime Sols' crowdfunding was exclusive to North America & Canada. This was strictly a logistics thing, as Sols was handling all of the credit card information on its own, but it effectively killed the most of the support it could have had. I'm not sure how many of the AnimEigo & FUNimation Kickstarters actually support international backing, though I believe they all do, Kickstarter in general supports international backing, which opens up the amount of potential support any project on the site can receive. During Sols' entire existence there was constant complaining from non-"(North) American" fans, & how there could have been more success if even European backers were allowed.

All that being said, however, results speak louder than potentials. Taking that into consideration, I think we'll mostly (if even only) be seeing more crowdfunding for anime that follow one of the concepts that we've seen from AnimEigo, FUNimation, or Pied Piper, i.e. HD remastered re-releases of old series, making new dubs for old series, or giving series that already have some sort of existing fanbase or notoriety a proper release (especially with a dub). Putting out "never before seen" anime (a.k.a. older anime that most haven't checked out before, as I call them in cases like these) is just not something that companies are willing to try out anymore, even with something like crowdfunding.
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jenny10-11



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:59 pm Reply with quote
If I see an established company using kickstarter as their main advertising/funding avenue, I wonder what's going wrong that they can't obtain funding or advertise in the usual way. And the more kickstarter projects they run, the less I trust their business capabilities.

Funimation's reasoning that they're testing the waters to see if there's interest in a single title makes more sense to me than a company that puts out lots of things as a kickstarter (i.e., DMP and their Tezuka kickstarter line).

It's interesting to see that it's a hassle on their end too, and that any extra money they may get from backers would probably just end up going to rewards or Kickstarter.

Edited to explain my point with more clarity


Last edited by jenny10-11 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
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TheMorry



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:02 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:


I think it's possible for "completely unknown" anime (in North America) to succeed via crowdfunding, but Anime Sols had some nagging issues that just couldn't be fixed without completely reworking the entire concept of the site. The first was the fact that it wasn't utilizing Kickstarter, which Primus brought up. Sols was conceived before KS started up & approved by the involved companies because they had complete control & all of the money, but by the time the site actually launched, KS had blown up & most people were already of the mind of "KS or bust", which meant that Anime Sols had immediately lost a lot of any potential support it could have had. Even Skip Beat originally failed on IndieGoGo because anime fans had taken up the "KS or bust" mindset.

Second, & even more importantly, was the fact that Anime Sols' crowdfunding was exclusive to North America & Canada. This was strictly a logistics thing, as Sols was handling all of the credit card information on its own, but it effectively killed the most of the support it could have had. I'm not sure how many of the AnimEigo & FUNimation Kickstarters actually support international backing, though I believe they all do, Kickstarter in general supports international backing, which opens up the amount of potential support any project on the site can receive. During Sols' entire existence there was constant complaining from non-"(North) American" fans, & how there could have been more success if even European backers were allowed.

All that being said, however, results speak louder than potentials. Taking that into consideration, I think we'll mostly (if even only) be seeing more crowdfunding for anime that follow one of the concepts that we've seen from AnimEigo, FUNimation, or Pied Piper, i.e. HD remastered re-releases of old series, making new dubs for old series, or giving series that already have some sort of existing fanbase or notoriety a proper release (especially with a dub). Putting out "never before seen" anime (a.k.a. older anime that most haven't checked out before, as I call them in cases like these) is just not something that companies are willing to try out anymore, even with something like crowdfunding.
International crowdfunding is only possible if you have the rights for that region. Escaflowne UK rights are with Anime Limited (before it was Beez/bandai i believe) and Madman has the Aussie rights. So Funimation couldnt open if for other than NA.

As with Skip Beat. Pied piper is runned by Ann. Pied Piper has only a small budget. before she ever launched the KS campain she already bought the NA rights. If she got it for the UK and Aussie as well it wouldve cost way more.

Time of eve had a international crowdfunding because Ann from Pied Piper was given the international rights for time of eve. She worked at the Directions studio in Japan before, so she had connections with them.

With other words: International crowdfunding is possible IF you have the region rights for it.

jenny10-11 wrote:
If I see an established company running a kickstarter, I wonder what's going wrong that they can't obtain funding or advertise in the usual way. And the more kickstarter projects they run, the less I trust their business capabilities.

It's interesting to see that it's a hassle on their end too, and that any extra money they may get from backers would probably just end up going to rewards or Kickstarter.


Not everything is so black and white as you put it. Funimation only wanted to test if there was enough interrest in creating a new dub. The goal was as i remember like 160k. That is like only the half what is actually required. If Funimation just started creating a new dub and none was interrested in it then they throw away a lot of money if the sales failed. With this they basicly had people preordering it.

I really dont understand people like you having a problem with it.
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jenny10-11



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:22 pm Reply with quote
TheMorry wrote:


I really dont understand people like you having a problem with it.


My main hang up is with DMP, using kickstarter for basically every new project that comes out (and the entirety of their Tezuka line). If it's just once or twice to gauge interest in a title, that makes more sense to me. But when companies start leaning on Kickstarter as their main method of publishing/ gauging interest/ funding, then I start to get concerned about the companies future.
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:25 pm Reply with quote
TheMorry wrote:
If Funimation just started creating a new dub and none was interrested in it then they throw away a lot of money if the sales failed. With this they basicly had people preordering it.

I really dont understand people like you having a problem with it.

I know that classic Sailor Moon is a way bigger title than Escaflowne, but Viz decided to create a new dub for a 200 episodes show that first aired 24 years ago without a Kickstarter.

Funimation fooled fans with their Escaflowne Kickstarter. And because of that I am kind of glad that Funimation is not having a fun time fulfilling the rewards for it.
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