Forum - View topicWhat is a Fujoshi?
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DillMan
Posts: 26 |
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It is an interesting phenomenon for sure and fun to discuss.
Personally being a homosexual male, I like a lot of the same stuff this article mentions, so I guess I owe a big thanks to the Fujoshi of the world for helping the process along haha. I can agree with the "spending power" as well because even though it is becoming more and more mainstream to see BL related items all over the places, it still seems like a subculture that people can create a decent supply for and still demand a lot of money for. I have spent a decent amount of money online on doujinshi for instance from Japan that can cost about $20-$30 each; which is a lot, but unless I find fan uploaded versions online, what other choice is there? Sports anime is probably my favorite genre right now, where as the idol genre I am not into much at all. Sports anime has the best of everything though, cute boys, friendships, fierce competition, people caring about a united goal they desperately want to achieve, etc. Ookiku Furikabutte was my first sports anime and still one of my favorites. Lately Haikyuu has been my favorite recent series. There have been so many other great titles recently though. I personally love the movement and hope it continues. |
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pauladls
Posts: 198 |
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Literally me
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rizuchan
 Posts: 975 Location: Kansas |
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As a long time "fujoshi" (aka Yaoi fangirl, or shipper, back in the day) I have a lot of mixed feelings about the Fujoshi "boom". I think it mostly comes down to the fact that I don't like sports anime (with a few notable exceptions) and while I do like some idol anime, I have yet to find a male idol anime I like. The characters of the latter are just so cookie cutter I can't ever find one with enough appeal to gush over.
Though speaking of male idol anime... is it really Fujoshi? The vast majority of them are reverse harem, which is really more Otome (Which, to be fair, has a lot of overlap with fujoshi, including myself) but not really much shipping potential considering the guys mostly only talk to the female lead. While the article does talk about B-project focusing more on male-male relationships, I couldn't get into it in part because it still seemed pretty reverse harem-y. The other problem I have - I'm also a moe fan, which means some (non-reverse) harem shows sneak into my watch list on occasion and... it seems like male-targeted harem shows and moe (which is kind of a Fujoshi counterpart with the yuri baiting) are of higher quality on average. Don't get me wrong, there are tons of bad harem and moe, but there are also many great ones. Reverse harem has... Ouran and Fruits Basket? Both of which are quite old now. UtaPri is the big new one of course, but most other Otome/Fujoshi i've talked to are like "yeah the show's crap, but the boys are pretty". My hope is that with more and more female targeted shows, female fans will slowly become less content with "It's a idol show - but with boys!" and become pickier and more demanding of quality. Or maybe I'm just getting old and don't understand the appeal of young fans these days. Edit: re: the common complaint that reverse harem have generic leads with no personality - I don't disagree, but I also think that's not the key issue. Leads with no personality (or are so stupid as to be detestable) have been plaguing traditional harem shows almost since their inception. People complain about them, but what often saves those shows is the strength of the "harem" aka the female characters, which is why so many women like myself find them watchable. For example, SaeKano, Clannad and OreImo come to mind as decent-to-great harem-type shows. Each of them either have a story arc (i.e. 2-5 episodes) dedicated to each character, and/or plenty of scattered screen time for each character that gives them time both for character development and for the viewer to become invested in them. In contrast, most reverse harem shows lately (UtaPri, Dance with Devils, Magic-kyun) seem to have larger casts and therefore less time for character development. You have all of the reverse-harem staples (see: Ouran) and they each get one episode where the heroine catches them being angsty, fixes their problem with her cheerfulness, so he falls in love with her... and then fades into the background as another guy takes center stage in the next episode. But the viewer presumably has a favorite "type" like a favorite color so she'll run out and buy a bunch of stationary with his face on it regardless. It's almost like... why even bother watching the show? Skip the 6 hours of show about the girl with the freaky eyes (they always have weird eyes) who's too dumb to live and just buy a pillow case of the one that's your type and project all your romantic fantasies on it, and you'll have the same experience. Last edited by rizuchan on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sontoloyo
Posts: 35 |
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^Wow,,,,you're already speak my mind rizuchan, I also have exactly the same feeling as you regarding the boom of "fujoshi shows" these couple of years. While I love and enjoy some sport shows, but that doesn't mean that I just consume all of them without any care as long as it's sport with cute boys. I also very picky with my selection of sport shows and I'm not that big on male idol show because the majority of them are still reverse harem-y type plus the the majority of their qualities are pretty medioce (especially when you compare them with something great/good like YOI or Haikyuu...meh), but I quite like and enjoy the ones like StarMyu, etc more. Obviously I also enjoy other type of shows like the sword boys ones.
Btw, just like you rizuchan, I also love and enjoy plenty of good moe shows and other stuffs ranging from your good ol' shonen action-shows, scifi, mecha, space opera, etc..etc..to the artistic ones like all of Yuasa shows or something like Rakugo or Fune wo Amu. Regarding your expectations of the future content of fujoshi shows, I also share the same sentiments, hopefully our fellow fujoshi and female otaku in japan become more picky and selective in choosing the more quality contents to support. We already see its sign these last few years, what's with the more competitive environment, we saw only a handfull of shows being successfull, meanwhile plenty of other shows that targeted at female fans having a mediocre or even bombing in bd/dvd sales (this is especially true for the shoujo manga adaptations, that's why unless you have a consistent bd/dvd+manga sales, strong viewership, merch, etc like Natsume then you rarely will ever see them getting whole completed adaptations till the end). The most you'll probably get after 2 cour 12-13 eps or one cour full 24-26 eps are just some ovas here and there. Just look at Kamisama Hajimemashita and many other titles from the last 10-20 years. |
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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I believe the major change is on how the authors pretend for us to react to character relationships, or basically, how they intend to convey it.
An easy example would be Hajime no Ippo, a long running manga that hails from back in 1989. While a lot has changed in its course, and it isn't radically far away from a target for fujoshis, at the same time there is a distinct thing that will set it apart from most modern sports manga, which basically boils down but not exclusively to humour. Hajime no Ippo retains a lot of the crude boyish humour, with big detailed reaction faces, grotesque situations, and basically scenarios in which characters are, by fun's sake, hurtful to each other, but these things are quickly forgotten and don't usually play a big part in characterization other than reinforcing certain stuff. However, there is also the dramatic part to these characters, and in comparison, they are also resolved in a different way. Hajime no Ippo portrays mostly solitary growth. While there is a say of other characters regularly, the growth of all characters is mostly only relevant to themselves, and it won't directly affect the growth of all others in a narrative sense, other than inspiring questions. This is in part strenghtened by the fact that Hajime no Ippo portrays a solo sport instead of a team sport, but I believe even older team sports anime tend to fall into that idea, such as Captain Tsubasa. Comparatively, modern manga and anime have more of a collective growth, in which all of the characters are crucial to the development and fleshing out of each character, including rivalries, and any interaction is meaningful in a way, even humourous ones. This is effectively helping in the increase of fujoshi culture, because the characters themselves are written to get extremely close and not only from a competitive standpoint. |
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solosorca
 Posts: 12 |
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I think my issue with otome game based male idol shows is that said character is always so, well, boring. They're all pretty much the same bland girl who's main attribute is 'nice' and never really grow or do anything. I know a lot of fans are like 'just ignore her and focus on the boys' and I can't. If she is the main character who we follow around then I'd like her to have some form of personality and then completely throws me out of the show.
Generally, if the show is enjoyable on its own merits I will find something to ship in it, but my favourite genre of show at the moment is sports anime, partly because I love how seriously the characters take the sport and also because ships are really easy to find and be pandered to. And my favourite of any sports anime is Prince of Tennis. I could go on for pages and pages about it, so I will restrain myself. There are so many moments where it knows it's aiming itself at the fujoshi market, to the point where it changes spoiler[(Kentaro's main character trait changes from 'wanting to kiss all the girls' to 'really likes Ryoma')] and adds bits spoiler[(like Seigaku picturing Taka-san in the arms of another man when thinking about him on a date)] purely for them. And then there is Tenimyu, all 40+ musicals of fujoshi pandering fun. Also it has canon gay characters in, although... well, it's prince of tennis, they rely fairly heavily on stereotypes. And, since you asked, my favourite pairing is Ryoma and Tezuka from Tenipuri. Also, I really hope YOI is going to make it possible to have gay characters in non-BL series (as actual characters, not as throw away jokes). |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I recently read a rumour on Twitter that the very first audience of Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 consisted of a significant number of adult women, and while I can but speculate as to why that was, what is suggested here may be of some relevance. |
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DJStarstryker
 Posts: 140 |
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I agree that sports and idol anime are HUGE for fujoshi, but some plain old regular shounen anime can be big fujoshi targets too. If you go to Animate stores in Japan, they tend to have aisles with goods that are specifically aimed towards fujoshi. It's stuff that guy anime fans typically wouldn't care about, like hair scrunchies, perfume, stationery, bubble bath, incense... stuff like that, all with respective characters on the item or packaging. When I was last in Japan, they had stuff like that for Fairy Tail, Naruto, One Piece, etc in addition to Free and all of the other sports anime popular at the time.
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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You are really doing the term and fujoshi "sub culture", and Japanese feminism for that matter, a disservice if you misinform everyone by connecting the term to only anime fangirls. Much like Otaku, it is not an anime-only term. Take example the translation notes from Princess Jellyfish, a comic I'm surprised got no mention since most every character in the series is a Fujoshi, and none of them are anime fangirls: "Fujoshi in Japanese translates to "rotten woman" referencing how these women self-identify as individuals opposite from Japan's patriarchal definition of what a "good woman" is - a helpful wife and a wise mother. Fujoshi indulge in their desires, regardless of the purity and innocence that is expected of them. For Amars, (the character in Princess Jellyfish) the character cannot help but put their love of jellyfish, kimono, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, etc., before their social obligations as "good women" in society. Thus it is considered unladylike, unattractive, and even shameful to be a fujoshi. Many women attempt to keep their fujoshi identity a secret outside of their fujoshi circle." I really am kind of shocked the article totally ignored this. |
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12skippy21
 Posts: 785 Location: York, England |
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It is always good to see a variety of tastes represented and people are never afraid of their hobbies and interests.
The only issue I tend to have with such shows at the minute, this goes for fujoshi/yuri/yaoi, is that the character designs are too bland and they all tend to dress/act the same. Sure they are good looking but a few more subcultures would be good to see (ideally goth/punk if any creators are reading this) 
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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Unfortunately, a lot of those shows generally get ignored in discussions about fujoshi in the west. If you go by gender breakdown of television ratings, Fairy Tail had more adult women watching it than young boys when it was on TV. Perhaps the reason is how exposure in western marketing is handled. Do Funimation and Viz have merch for girls, or is it just generic stuff like t-shirts and Funko Pops? More cynnically, perhaps another reason is western fujoshi tend to be pretty hostile. It's common to see insults and anger if you point out those sport shows they like are technically shounen/seinen. With NaruPieceTale, it's more accepted they're boys fodder due to being more common knowledge and widespread popularity, so not many are going to challenge the claim. There were a lot of other shows aimed at boys popular with women, like Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Inazuma Eleven, but they were either poorly mishandled in the west leading their audience to only be children or were not even released in the market nor given an official subbed release, making people rely on fansubs. Huge in Japan, virtually nonexistant in the American fujoshi market. A shame. Multiple audiences are betted than one. Having a series that appeals to both men and women means you can double dip. What's interesting to note is the different genres of double-dipping. Sports about guys are popular with women but, sports about women are not popular with men. Or really, popular in general. The types of shows that are aimed at women but popular with men tend to be mahou like Precure and PriPara. -Stuart Smith |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2424 Location: Germany |
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It´s a reasonably "new" concept for TV anime but easily recognizable fujoshi material, Thomas no Shinzō or Kaze to Ki no Uta are prime example here, existed since the 70s with manga. Both are even regular "mainstream" Shoujo manga. I have a very hard time taking both of them seriously (so much over the top rape), but dat art. The more things change...
I take my gay comics without the pandering and teen-girl sex fantasy baiting. Not that some of the tumbler bait i currently get from the US side is much better. I don´t even think that the overall Fujoshi comic culture is all that Japan centered. How much Kirk X Spock slash fiction is there again and how about "Stucky"? Look it up.... Just write real characters, ok? |
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meruru
Posts: 471 |
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I've been saying I find it hilariously disappointing that Japan has discovered what a large portion of women want to see in media, a section large enough anyways to make a sizable profit. Meanwhile, the west still stubbornly clings to its young male audience, tends to cancel shows that attract women unintentionally if it doesn't also capture the young males rather than bothering to capitalize on them, and is shocked once every five to ten years or so when it produces something that appeals to women on a large scale and makes a TON of money. Oh, and let's not forget to disparage these properties while we're at it, because anything women like is terrible, even while huge numbers of people still like it.
And this is why, for all of anime's various other issues, I still watch it over most American shows these days. |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2864 |
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the mcs are personality-less so you can self insert better; sometimes the authors risk it adn give it the personality of the target audience, so beta ishi washy nice guys works fine for the otaku who watches those shows. |
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Chocoreto
Posts: 105 |
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Pandering. What the article describes is pandering. It's the next worst thing after pineapple on pizza. Sadly, cheap tactic as it might be, as the article correctly says it works, and money is being spent because of it, that's why it's still going strong.
By the way, fujoshi here. I have my objections about sports anime. Imagination is a powerful thing and having a setting full of well-trained guys definitely helps, but there is a clear distinction between shows like Free! and shows like Haikyuu!. Free! was desperately trying to cater to fujoshi audience, while Haikyuu just delivers its fun and anyone is entitled to view it as they might (for example, I am a fujoshi but I don't see any yaoi potential at all in there). Also, idol anime are always so empty, boring and uninspired that shouldn't even be considered as stories. (Plus, the whole concept of "idols" is abominable by itself.) #salt Being attracted to a fictional character primarily means that you fall in love not with their outward characteristics, but with their persona. The same rule applies when we're talking about a fictional couple, potential or not. If the characters and/or their relationship is not well written for you, imagination can only go so far. That's why it's always a matter of what works for you and appeals to you the best. For me it's Naruto x Sasuke (Naruto duh), Shizuo x Izaya (DRRR), Gintoki x Hijikata (Gintama), L x Light (Death Note), Lelouch x Suzaku (Code Geass), Sebastian x Ciel (Kuroshitsuji), Kotetsu x Barnaby (Tiger & Bunny), and the new add ups are Levi x Eren (Attack on Titan) and Tsukiyama x Kaneki (Tokyo Ghoul). And many more, depending each time on the show I'll get fixated to, IF in that show I see such potential. I personally don't see it in sports, unless it's Free practically rubbing to my face, and Yuri On Ice of course that made it cannon. |
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