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Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-02]


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Abarenbo Shogun



Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:43 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
My god, why do people get such a stick up their a** about copyright stuff?

Okay, Downloading actual Anime is a legitimate issue. But the rest of the stuff is just stupid. These AMVs don't make anyone any money, its not like they cost the creators of the Anime/Music anything. So who cares? It gets worse from there. I mean copyrighted charcters in cosplay? Thats just stupid.

The rant was kinda uninteresting. It was more rantlike than usual. Short, angrier, not perticularily articulate. Plus it kinda repeated some of the stuff already said.


The fact that some stupid script kiddie can take a few screencaps from Naruto, then patch them together to some emo angst song is whats the problem .

I mean seriously, what talent does little Timmy have that 70 other folks haven't done with the same song from Linkin Park or Nora Jones? Most of them are ****ing crap, and shouldn't even exist in the first place. Frankly, YouTube should go in, delete all the crap AMV's, and BAM!! more space for meaningful stuff like a Police Organ Run.
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LoopyChew



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:36 am Reply with quote
I think the main reason AMV creators (having been one myself) get in a snit whenever people use their edited footage is because--be they snot-nosed Linkinball Z video creators or consistent VCA winners--they still put a fair amount of time into the whole thing.

Consider it like DJs/artists who use samples from records they own to create a new piece (think Fatboy Slim or The Go! Team), or the guy who records a record-breaking speed run in a video game; while the source material is assembled from pieces of other people's creations, it's still the creator's effort which produces the end result.

I can't tell you whether or not anyone's snottiness is justified in the kind of situation mentioned in the rant; however, I get the feeling that's where they get it.

Incidentally, if anyone remembers "Odorikuruu," done by Aokakesu to Elissa's Mamboleo, which was subsequently stripped and re-set to CCR's Down On the Corner ("Odorikuruu Gone Horribly Wrong") by Big Big Truck. Ao didn't mind at all, and kinda joked about it being the world's first "Open-source AMV," thus showing at least one AMV creator who has a sense of humor about these things.
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Cain Highwind



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:57 am Reply with quote
who_is_friend wrote:
but you do have to wade through a lot of crud to find the quality ones.


I was going to say the exact same thing. Some people see all the crap on YT and don't see what the big deal is. I really have to pull the big guns out liek Istv, Tyler, or Suberunker (to name a few) and show them what REAL AMVs are.

I noticed AM say this about it:

Quote:
As for their relative quality, I've always been of the (unpopular) mindset that AMVs, while they are occasionally fun to watch, aren't really all that creative. I mean, basically you're taking someone else's song and someone else's show and creating kind of a vague (or extremely obvious) emotional connection between the two and then it runs for 6 minutes or whatever. I've seen my fair share of well-executed videos, but most of them don't have any value beyond a gimmick that you pick up on within the first few seconds. How much real honest-to-god creativity does it really take to make a connection between "Heaven is a Place on Earth" and Ah My Goddess? Yeah, OK, it's kinda fun to watch I suppose, but these are very disposable things.
[Fixed quite tag ~Zalis]

Personally I like the whole "emotional connection" to songs. When I'm listening to music, it's much more enjoyable to be able to visualize something with a song I'm listening to, than just listening to it by itself. There are a lot of songs used in AMVs I've become quite fond of, and usually hum to myself because i have that visual reference. The same goes for game and movie/anime soundtracks. If I see the material the music is used for I enjoy it 10 times more than listening to it on its own.

I also have to point out AMVs have progressed from a simple "Music video concept" There are some that can be quite creative and different. Mixing Anime with Video Games and VGM Remixes, "Crossover videos" made famous by a Bebop/Trigun video called "Tainted Donuts", and of course probably one of the best known bits of humor in the AMV community is the "AMV Hell" series which is a Robot Chicken-esque mis-mash of short Anime clips dubbed to a simple lyric or two or simply dubbed audio. There's a lot of AMVs that really aren't *music videos* at all, just clever comedy sketches well synched to the animation.

Oh and I had to say from this:
Quote:
Any kid with a bootleg copy of Adobe Premiere and a Linkin Park MP3 can slap together a Naruto music video out of the fansubs he downloads and the result is usually unwatchable.


Sad as it is, they don't even do THAT, a good 80 of the videos out there are simply done with Windows Movie Maker. Other than that though yeah you hit the nail on the head.

But judging from your reply on the subject Answerman, at least your a guy who understands the whole thing as more than just a silly YT obssession and just isn't your cup of tea
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SoloButterfly



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Masaki Residence

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:00 am Reply with quote
ah, seems it's time to pull out my Excel Saga missing hair picture...

http://img.photobucket.com/​albums/​v610/​SoloButterfly/​excelsagaep6.​jpg

and, for more naruto and crosseyed goodness:


also, I'm not a puppy person, but that photo was beyond "kawaii"
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chaosbladeuk



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:15 am Reply with quote
Pandaguy87 wrote:
Uh, can someone tell me what anime was used for this week's banner?


The banner is from the Ghost in the Shell Movie.
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fujiwara



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:23 am Reply with quote
That puppy was indeed cute!

AMV's are very inconsistent media. Some are good, some are bad, some are okay. A couple of months ago I saw a perfectly choreographed AMV. The beat and the action melded together perfectly. When someone landed a punch, the drummer, from some random band, conveniently dropped some heavy baritone action. It was by no means a work of art, but at least the guy didn't just take his favourite song and favourite fight scene then throw the two together. It worked.
On the other hand, just yesterday, I witnessed a real shocker. This fellow took some random grunge song, like from Nirvana, and layed it over the top of a couple of battle scenes from NGE spliced together. It was horrible. The guy hadn't even bothered to remove the sound effects and dialogue from the original material. Along came this quiet part of the song, where they were preparing to let loose some hectic bass action, when this random crunching sound from when an angel steps on a car comes through my speakers. It just doesn't fit. I stopped watching when the japanese dialogue started getting mixed with the lyrics.
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Raelanura



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:25 am Reply with quote
This is my first time posting in the forum... how y'all doing? Smile

Anyways, I make AMVs, occassionally. Look up my username on YouTube and you'll get a few results. I don't claim to have made any works of art, and I certainly wouldn't get anal about people wanting to borrow any of it (after all, it isn't my material to begin with), though I don't see why people would want to. I just do it for the fun of it. I like making them and people like watching them.

As for anime haters... ehh, these are just people who get off on putting other people down. They're not worth making a fuss about.

Love the headless Naruto pic. I always thought that anime was brainless. Naruto would make a good spokesman for Tizer.

Well that's my input I guess.
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Lyrai



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Potatoes (Idaho)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:26 am Reply with quote
I find the AMV Hell series to be both great AMVs, and the idea of how to properly do an AMV - don't try and stretch one idea for 4-5 minutes. Keep it short, and do a clip show.

Not to say that there's the occasional gem that executes it - Euphoria, Tainted Donuts, but they're few and far between.

And haha, oh wow, I sent the QUALITY one in.
Another Naruto one
Bleach
What the Christ Rock Lee.

Nothing really topped Headless Naruto, though.
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ikillchicken
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 6954
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:01 am Reply with quote
Abarenbo Shogun wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
My god, why do people get such a stick up their a** about copyright stuff?

Okay, Downloading actual Anime is a legitimate issue. But the rest of the stuff is just stupid. These AMVs don't make anyone any money, its not like they cost the creators of the Anime/Music anything. So who cares? It gets worse from there. I mean copyrighted charcters in cosplay? Thats just stupid.

The rant was kinda uninteresting. It was more rantlike than usual. Short, angrier, not perticularily articulate. Plus it kinda repeated some of the stuff already said.


The fact that some stupid script kiddie can take a few screencaps from Naruto, then patch them together to some emo angst song is whats the problem .

I mean seriously, what talent does little Timmy have that 70 other folks haven't done with the same song from Linkin Park or Nora Jones? Most of them are ****ing crap, and shouldn't even exist in the first place. Frankly, YouTube should go in, delete all the crap AMV's, and BAM!! more space for meaningful stuff like a Police Organ Run.


Congrats, you missed my whole point, you get a cookie...

Youre right dude. litttle Timmy has no talent. Once again though: problem? So theyre crap. Let Timmy waste time making crap if he wants to. Nobody is being forced to watch em, and it aint hurting anything. Who cares?
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 3797

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:00 am Reply with quote
Cain Highwind wrote:

Oh and I had to say from this:
Quote:
Any kid with a bootleg copy of Adobe Premiere and a Linkin Park MP3 can slap together a Naruto music video out of the fansubs he downloads and the result is usually unwatchable.


Sad as it is, they don't even do THAT, a good 80 of the videos out there are simply done with Windows Movie Maker. Other than that though yeah you hit the nail on the head.


Most of the noobs wouldn't even KNOW how to use Adobe Premiere because of its complexity (and man, did it take me a while to get use of the interface Shocked). Windows Movie Maker is far more accessible and free. Of course it still doesn't excuse the fact of the many complaints in the Org whining why their program keeps on crashing every time they load their fansubbed episode onto the timeline. Rolling Eyes
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Dorian
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 106
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:32 am Reply with quote
SoloButterfly wrote:
ah, seems it's time to pull out my Excel Saga missing hair picture...

http://img.photobucket.com/​albums/​v610/​SoloButterfly/​excelsagaep6.​jpg

and, for more naruto and crosseyed goodness:


Your Naruto is not exactly crossed eyed. He has Strabismus which covers a number of lazy or wandering eye problems. Good picture for the topic by the way.
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Levitz9



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 686
Location: Puerto Rico

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:20 am Reply with quote
Michi wrote:
Quote:
or there's "nothing wrong" with making costumes of copyrighted characters


...Wait, what? Okay, I'm not gonna disagree with the AMV thing since it's copyrighted video and copyrighted music but... This guy is saying there's something just as wrong with cosplay?
I'm 99% sure cosplay is seen in the same way doujinshi (in Japan, obviously not here) are. While Japanese fansites won't even put up official artwork, fanart/doujins and cosplay are fanmade material that are treated completely different. I've never seen all of those anime companies whine about cosplayers at cons when they make appearances; we're basically free advertising. (Then again, you'd think they'd have AMVs shut down, but I think it's a bigger deal to the recording artists than it is to the anime companies.)

Blah, I dunno. Just seeing someone say cosplay is some horrible infringement of copyright made me want to speak up. I mean yeah, they're other people's characters, but it's taking a design and re-creating it, even sometimes altering it, and we're sure as heck not making any profit off of it. Oh well. I don't want to argue; I'm burnt out from a 12+ hour day of work and school. =/


As a matter of fact, Manga-ka in Japan actually like people going off and making doujinshi or things of that sort--it means to them that people have been reading their material and are responding to it, as well as expressing their fandom to it. That'd go for the whole 'AMV' thing as well--the Japanese aren't banning it because they see it as flattering.

When you think about it, it makes sense, because when you read something, isn't it fun to wonder what would've happened if some event happened the other way around, or was dealt with in a different manner, or never even occured in the first place?
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 830

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:28 am Reply with quote
Levitz9 wrote:
Michi wrote:
Quote:
or there's "nothing wrong" with making costumes of copyrighted characters


...Wait, what? Okay, I'm not gonna disagree with the AMV thing since it's copyrighted video and copyrighted music but... This guy is saying there's something just as wrong with cosplay?
I'm 99% sure cosplay is seen in the same way doujinshi (in Japan, obviously not here) are. While Japanese fansites won't even put up official artwork, fanart/doujins and cosplay are fanmade material that are treated completely different. I've never seen all of those anime companies whine about cosplayers at cons when they make appearances; we're basically free advertising. (Then again, you'd think they'd have AMVs shut down, but I think it's a bigger deal to the recording artists than it is to the anime companies.)

Blah, I dunno. Just seeing someone say cosplay is some horrible infringement of copyright made me want to speak up. I mean yeah, they're other people's characters, but it's taking a design and re-creating it, even sometimes altering it, and we're sure as heck not making any profit off of it. Oh well. I don't want to argue; I'm burnt out from a 12+ hour day of work and school. =/


As a matter of fact, Manga-ka in Japan actually like people going off and making doujinshi or things of that sort--it means to them that people have been reading their material and are responding to it, as well as expressing their fandom to it. That'd go for the whole 'AMV' thing as well--the Japanese aren't banning it because they see it as flattering.

When you think about it, it makes sense, because when you read something, isn't it fun to wonder what would've happened if some event happened the other way around, or was dealt with in a different manner, or never even occured in the first place?

There are many manga authors who like people copying their works, but there are a large number who do not. Unfortunately I can't remember any of the names who did this but there was an author who demanded that none of her characters be cosplayed. (This was an issue when she went to a convention.) There are also various authors who doujinshi artists know are off limits are that they should not use. There was also recently a lawsuit against a group that publishes doraemon doujinshi for I believe reasons.

Japan also has MADs instead of AMVs but they are a very delicate issue.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 980
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:58 am Reply with quote
So my rant got posted, hehe. Yeah, the writing isn't stellar, I sort of did want to run with the whole "rant" concept. Also, it is sort of half of a conversation because the whole thing was "inspired" by the umpteenth "somebody 'stole' my fanart/amv/etc" drama by someone online. These are always made all the MORE exciting by friends of the person who follow it up with the ubiquitous "you should sue".

I find that laughable. So, they're saying you should go sue someone for stealing something from you that you didn't really have legal domain to in the first place, BRILLIANT. And while I'm not saying those people DO actually sue (most are just angry kids venting) I find it incredibly hypocritical that people in fandom think the companies are evil if they do one single thing to protect their copyright (say against fansubs), but then, everyone is all TOO ready to swing around the "lawsuit" flag (even as an idle threat) if they feel wronged. That's just ridiculous.

I'll also grant that the cosplay thing is MUCH less relevant and I really debated whether or not to leave it in, but the rant is about the fandom "drama" on "stealing" not about ACTUAL copyright. Yes, I would also probably say cosplay and doujinshi are similar in legal right and acceptance (both are TECHNICALLY illegal, but RARELY prosecuted or shut down), but (and this may be because I'm not actually Japanese) I have NEVER heard someone say "ohnoes, that person used the same anime inspiration as me!!!" for doujinshi, but this OFTEN happens in cosplay. Or, "they stole my skit idea". Or you might find people complaining about other people "stealing" their image (pictures), altho, granted this opens a whole DIFFERENT can of worms about the picture being of the PERSON who is cosplaying. In the end, that's why cosplay is mentioned only in passing and as just one other piece of fandom, because there are many, MANY more variables and unrelated issues in that aspect of the hobby.

Bottom line, if you make your own animation and someone puts it somewhere for download without your permission and you want to complain, fine. If you want to download fansubs like a fiend, fine. But if you are pirating material and then get mad when OTHER people pirate YOUR material, then "WTF?" If ANYONE can defend the "I wanna sue that guy" mentality from someone pirating material that is itself pirated I REALLY want to hear it. The whole reason I submitted that rant was to see if anyone would try to defend that position. Wink
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rpb3000



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 25
Location: Middle of Nowhere, OH, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:03 am Reply with quote
A few posts in this thread caught me a little by surprise. Yes folks, cosplay is a copyright infringement. Same as AMVs, fanart, fanfics, and any other fan activity that somebody does without getting permission from the original creators first. The industry normally turns a blind eye to these things because it's free advertisement for them and the infringer isn't making any money off of them. It doesn't change the fact that it is illegal.

Costumes that you can buy at Halloween shops and HotTopic are licensed merchandise, meaning that they paid for the rights to produce it and the original creators are getting some percentage of the proceeds. It's completely different than somebody sitting at home making their own costume. You didn't get the rights, therefore it is illegal.

Illegality doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. In the fan world problems only happen when someone points out what's going on to the companies, and then they become forced to shut it down. Otherwise they normally leave it be. Free advertisement, and it's not hurting them.

I've created an AMV and plan on creating more. I've cosplayed and probably will do it again. I've written fanfics and attempted fanart. I support all kinds of fanworks. But what's law is law, and none of them are viewed more favorably than others under it.
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