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otimus wrote:

I have a real practical reason for preferring dubs. I'm very lazy, and it's easier to be in the middle of a pre-nap situation whilst watching a dub, than a sub.
...I nap a lot. I'm lazy. Yeah.

Heh ... dubs have been known to put me to sleep.

The only subtitle situations that can do that are some DVDs' long-winded interviews with anime writers and directors ....

TheVok wrote:

Haterater wrote:

Have you even tried paying attention to FMA?

Yep ... and the Japanese track on the DVDs is noticeably better than the English dub.

Quote:

Simliar in the Japanese version, and pretty darn insulting if you haven't even payed attention to the story in FMA to know why they sound the way they do.

Watched the whole series. Still no reason Ed should sound like a 20-year-old and Al like an 8-year-old.

care to elaborate? Its easy to say, the sub was better. How bout giving a reason why you think do.

Secondly, since you still seem to be struggling with this concept, The reason Ed sounds older is he is older. The reason Al sounds younger is he is younger. Ed is basically a teenager while Al is still a kid.

Quote:

if someone thinks they are sailor moon well who knows maybe they are...

Well, I'm convinced. Wink

Seriously, I don't know how much further we can take the otakukin issue. If these people are joking, the joke is played out--and if they're for real, then it seems that there's no reasoning with them.

About the potential Higurashi problem: I believe in free expression, so of course the show should be released in America. (Not that I'm going to watch it; it sounds way too dark and depressing for my tastes.) And yes, the odds that some "cultural warrior" type will discover it and cause trouble are slim. As Zac noted:

Quote:

This is a low-profile, hardcore fans-only release...It's an obscure title aimed at an obscure audience. Nobody outside of hardcore anime fandom will notice or care when it comes out.

Zac is probably right. But on the other hand, you could say the same thing about Puni Puni Poemy, and it was banned in New Zealand because a censor thought it was tantamount to kiddie porn. In a similar case, the Paranoia Agent episode "Happy Family Planning" was edited in the UK because a British censor found its theme of child suicide offensive. The very thing that makes censorship so scary is how arbitrary it is. So IMHO, while Geneon should go ahead with Higurashi, they should also be prepared for controversy.

To end on a happier note: I like how the Death Note banner shows Light perpetually going from normal to evil and back again. Wink

HeeroTX wrote:

...heck we should be glad they're not "glomping" the Japanese students upon arrival as prophets from the "motherland".

haha! sorry its kinda old, but that line made me crack up.

man im so juiced for higurashi. i hope they give it a nice release.

ikillchicken wrote:

Secondly, since you still seem to be struggling with this concept, The reason Ed sounds older is he is older. The reason Al sounds younger is he is younger. Ed is basically a teenager while Al is still a kid.

Not struggling at all.

In the English dub, the two voices sound many years apart. Al sounds about 8 and Ed sounds about 20.

In the Japanese track, they sound (as they should) much closer in age to each other.

Ed is only one year older than Al, remember.

ikillchicken wrote:

TheVok wrote:

Haterater wrote:

Have you even tried paying attention to FMA?

Yep ... and the Japanese track on the DVDs is noticeably better than the English dub.

Quote:

Simliar in the Japanese version, and pretty darn insulting if you haven't even payed attention to the story in FMA to know why they sound the way they do.

Watched the whole series. Still no reason Ed should sound like a 20-year-old and Al like an 8-year-old.

care to elaborate? Its easy to say, the sub was better. How bout giving a reason why you think do.

Secondly, since you still seem to be struggling with this concept, The reason Ed sounds older is he is older. The reason Al sounds younger is he is younger. Ed is basically a teenager while Al is still a kid.

Oh they aren't THAT much different in age. The sub is better because Paku Romi is Ed and Al DOESN't sound like a whiny, crybaby.

As a person who has admittedly watched the fansubs while they were coming out in Japan, and then watched the dub while it was on CN, I just have to say that the FMA dub was quite an excellent work. It sort of brought my respect for FUNimation back, actually. I've even met the voice actors (the kid who plays Al is about 14, not 8) at a convention or two, and you can tell that they were really dedicated to their work. As for preference to subs and dubs, I've found that I haven't really minded. We recently checked Petite Princess Yucie out from the library (the cheap way to get anime around these parts, because the library system as a HUGE collection that you can order online) and I have to say that I quite enjoyed the dub. Adversely, there are some times when I think that the Japanese voice actors fit the character better (sdiofjsdiofjs Aeris in KH2, anyone?) It just really depends.

Anyways, I think the rant this week is particularly true: don't be jaded into liking people just because of where they come from. However, I present a negative side to this.

Years and years ago, I met this girl who had moved here from Japan (she was born to American parents, yes, but she had lived there for most all of her life, thus technically qualifying her as Japanese in our minds). I immediately became friends with her, not because she was Japanese (because my interest in anime hadn't really sparked yet) but simply because she was new, fresh, exciting, awesome. She was a pretty cool person, and that's why we became friends.

However, later on I found out that she was a complete jerk, and I haven't really talked to her since. She moved back to Japan recently, and I'm sort of glad. I'm even more grateful that I didn't pretend to like her simply because she was from Japan, because otherwise, I would have been forced to deal with her for years.

So I say to my fellow anime fans: remember, just because Japan is another nation doesn't mean that they don't have people similar to ours. There are nice people, and then there are jerks. Don't be fooled into liking someone because of where they're from: get to know them as a person, not a stereotype, and then decide whether or not they're worth hanging around. It's exactly how you pick your friends in the U.S., anyways. Very Happy

On Youtube and Fansubs
Yes, the video quality is cruddy. I'd hate to have video of that kind of quality... in my DVD collection.

I always thought that the whole idea of fansubbing was to sample a series that isn't available in this country, so when it IS available I'll want to buy it on DVD. Better video quality is good... for a permanent copy. But of course we all know most fansub watchers just want free anime, so to them video quality is of utmost importance (I'm not talking about anyone here; rather, I speak of the anonymous masses of that "4" site. In one post they'll laugh at the guy who watches low-quality youtube subs, and in the next laugh at the guy who buys the legit R1 DVDs)

Youtube is good for sampling, which is all I really want from fansubs. If I like the show, I'll buy it when it gets here. If not, I'll stop watching it.

As far as AMVs are concerned, I really don't care for youtube AMVs. Most of them seem to be cruddy or some guy slicing out his favorite bits of AMV Hell. Or random music set to stills. Yes, most AMVs are crud, but youtube AMVs take the cake.

(Although some fandubs I saw were pretty funny. Not high art, but a good chuckle.)

Last edited by JnxCsc on Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

HerroTX let me explain something to you. These people are not interested in (for example) Japanesse people as a whole or even one person as a whole. They are only interested in these people for the stereotypes they have of them. Like thinking that all Japanesse people are short or they all like sushi or they all know kung foo or that they all love anime as much as some of us do.

These types of people (which I believe the ranter this week was talking about) don't want to be the exchange students friend and are not trying to find a medium on which to communticate with them. Those types of people who go to them for one thing and then don't get what they want are users. Bigoted, stereotyping users who probably only want to be able to say 'Hey I have a Japanesse friend isn't that cool' no it isn't it's disgusting. Still think I'm wrong? OK.

I'm black and when I'm standing in a very long line at the music store and a girl steps up behind me and starts gushing about Akon and how he's the coolest thing on 2 legs and don't I think he's been getting a raw deal about his song 'I Want To F*** You and blah, blah, blah.

Then when she finaly sees that I'm giving her a blank (and fairly disgusted look) she seems surprised. Then when I tell her I don't listen to Akon because I think his music is disgusting she completely shuts down and gives me a 'what's wrong with you look' then turns away.

What. Am I supposed to be interested in Akon because I'm Black? Does this senario not seem a little simmilar to what our ranter was discribing?

Think about that before you defend people who are bigot and users.

P.S. This was my first post. YAY! Very Happy

I've been an on and off anime fans since Robotech and what so many seem to forget (or are unaware of) is that the brouhaha about nudity and violence in anime has long since come and gone. In the 90s you could hardly throw a stick at anime imports without hitting something that combined sexy chicks with plenty of action. They created a whole lot of waves in both Europe and the Americas since there was no similar story tradition in western animation. It was new, strange and as such a cause for worry. In my country anime that today look laughably tame were given 18+ ratings. Ever since it's been "common knowledge" that anime is full of sex and violence. It's old news, which is why you won't see much talk about it in the papers and on TV. Battle Royale is a bad example since what scuppered that was licensing difficulties such as high costs and unrealistic terms, not American sensibilities. Higurashi is essentially no different from those early 90s anime. Which is why I guess Higurashi will find an audience outside the otaku community, or to rephrase, it has a ready audience but with the otaku segment as a welcome bonus.

Alright, moving on to quality issues. The girl writing in about fansub quality seems to have somewhat naively presumed that fansubs are almost always better. This is far from the case. A few, few select fansubbers manage to consistently do better than the commercial releases. Some manage to do about as well, and in those cases it all comes down to a matter of taste. Many other groups fail to reach commercial standards and some outright suck. There are simply put no absolutes despite what some hotheads would argue. For somebody not fluent in Japanese it can be difficult to spot the good ones from the bad. Bad English is an obvious warning flag but otherwise you just have to listen to what people say or go to one of the few sites that allow people to rate fansubbers.

More quality issues in the form of Youtube. I can basically say it's one thing and one thing only that makes people prefer Youtube over DVDs and fansubs. Convenience. It's almost as easy as watching TV. All you need is a flash plugin for the browser and you're off. The episode starts playing while you download. No need to order a DVD or go to the shop/rental. No need to install IRC or P2P clients, not to mention deal with codecs and finicky players. Youtube quality is like that of old VHS-tapes played on a small screen, but that's sufficient for some (but seriously youtubers, you're missing a lot).

Finally, pushy people. No, not anime fans bothering exchange students but people who have found something new and feel this burning itch to share this revelation with others. In this case scanlations. Come on, old as the internet, not news, stop offering well-meaning advice to manga shoppers. Anybody who's been reading scanlations for a while knows many projects never finish. Or worse, the quality is so atrocious that I'd buy the manga just to avoid popping a vein. True fans buy regardless if it's available for free.

With the whole sub vs dub issue, I personally prefer subs. That is, with no strings attached. If you take out all the issues about money, and the illegitamacy of the whole thing, and I was given two discs, one with the dub on it, and one with a fansub, I would probably pick the fansub. A particular detail I like about fansubs, is that some (sadly, not all) add up the top an explanation about certain cultural details you don't get with dubs. If dubs would do that (which implies that they would leave in the original word(s)), I would gladly watch them (some of the other problems with dubs you just have to grin and bear it).

TheVok wrote:

Ed is only one year older than Al, remember.

Maybe in age. Remember, though, Al lost his body, and the composition of a body determines a person's voice. Al had no body, and thus his voice would not age anything like Ed's. Hell, as he is, Al wouldn't have physically aged at all until his body was restored.

I don't even like the show and I know that.

fujiwara wrote:

With the whole sub vs dub issue, I personally prefer subs. That is, with no strings attached. If you take out all the issues about money, and the illegitamacy of the whole thing, and I was given two discs, one with the dub on it, and one with a fansub, I would probably pick the fansub. A particular detail I like about fansubs, is that some (sadly, not all) add up the top an explanation about certain cultural details you don't get with dubs. If dubs would do that (which implies that they would leave in the original word(s)), I would gladly watch them (some of the other problems with dubs you just have to grin and bear it).

You are aware that the debate at hand here is between fansubs and subtitles on official releases, not dubs, right? Because virtually all official releases will give you the option to watch the subtitled version, and more often than not, those subtitles will be done in a far more professional manner than the majority of fansubbers. Really, the only fansub job I've seen recently that I'd say was even remotely good was a.f.k.'s work on Haruhi.

If fansubbers could produce concise and professional translations, they wouldn't have to provide long-winded, completely unnecessary, and somewhat condescending explanations for every minor cultural detail that arises.

Firstly:

Quote:

You are aware that the debate at hand here is between fansubs and subtitles on official releases, not dubs, right?

As far as I can tell, the debate is about which is more accurate, a dub, sub, or a fansub. Hence:

Quote:

My long winded question(s) is(are)...Which is actually more "accurate"? A fan-made sub? A studio-made dub? A studio-made sub??

Secondly:

Quote:

If fansubbers could produce concise and professional translations, they wouldn't have to provide long-winded, completely unnecessary, and somewhat condescending explanations for every minor cultural detail that arises.

I am yet to see a "longwinded, completely unnecesaary, and somewhat condescending" explanation for the cultural refences sometimes made in anime. They are short, one line sentences at the top of the screen that usually read something like:

(Noh: is a major form of classical Japanese musical drama)

TheVok wrote:

ikillchicken wrote:

Secondly, since you still seem to be struggling with this concept, The reason Ed sounds older is he is older. The reason Al sounds younger is he is younger. Ed is basically a teenager while Al is still a kid.

Not struggling at all.

In the English dub, the two voices sound many years apart. Al sounds about 8 and Ed sounds about 20.

In the Japanese track, they sound (as they should) much closer in age to each other.

Ed is only one year older than Al, remember.

Ed sounds older than a 16 year old, but I still thought the voice fit his character very well. It would have been better if they used someone younger to do the 8-12 year old Ed though.

Al may sound a LOT younger than Ed, but keep in mind that for 99% of the show he has no real body so his voice couldn't change. I like how they used an actuall 11 year old kid to play as Al.

FMA is has one of the most well acted dubs I've ever heard. My only complaint is that they didn't use a younger sounding voice for young Ed. I'm still a big fan of Vic though!

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