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I am handicapped, and I don't believe in people's works to be reduced and the likes. Authors and creators should want their works to reach as many people as they can if possible.

I'm talking for those out there who have to rely on dubs, just like deaf people have to rely on subs. No difference here, IMO. Subs are as much handicap as dubs.

Steven:

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Of course, BV is simply painting all dubs with the one big, expensive negligent brush and pushing them aside entirely, but really, deos something like Gunbuster, when you look at it from the view of a need, rather than a want, merit a dub? Wings of Rean? Dunbine? Saint Seiya? Rozen Maiden? U.C Gundam?

I'd agree on Rean, Dunbine, and mostly U.C. Gundam, but not the rest. (Well, St. Seiya sucks in any language, but still...)

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Media Blasters, i think, has already started to go down this path, given their releases of shows such as Tekkaman Blade, Girl's high, Girl meets Girl and other Yaoi titles are sub only, but I think it's a change that needs to happen across the board and with more common sense, rather than giving everything bar one OAV a dub (ADV), and flat out refusing to do them (BV)

Well they're releasing both versions of Tekkaman, but that's only because the edits weren't as awful as Hanna Barbera's edits were to Gatchaman-which is why I assume ADV re-dubbed the latter show. I doubt those specs on Girl's High are final, but I could see why they wouldn't bother with a dub, since it's very ecchi, will probably only appeal to a small crowd(say Tenjho Tenge/Ikki Tousen fans) and the company publishing the manga doesn't have a lot of market penetration. Hell, I could see why Dreamworks chose to leave Millennium Actress un-dubbed; but that's no excuse for Innocence.

In BV's case, though, I'm not sure why they would release a show like Enma, which is clearly trying to cash in on a popular series like Hellsing, if it's not dubbed. Gunbuster 2 is also a remake, so with a dub, it could be marketed as such, and reach more people, who might even be interested in the original OVA. So that's just bad business. It's like if Bandai Ent chose to release Gundam Wing and G-Gundam sub-only.

GATSU wrote:

(Well, St. Seiya sucks in any language, but still...)

Absolutely not the point but we'll move on Wink

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Well they're releasing both versions of Tekkaman, but that's only because the edits weren't as awful as Hanna Barbera's edits were to Gatchaman-which is why I assume ADV re-dubbed the latter show.

Not entirely sure what you meant by the first bit, but yeah, the BOTP/G-Force adaptations were very uhh.. liberal. I still reckon that Gatchaman could've been released sub only, sold maybe two less copies and saved ADV money in the long run, but whatever. That was just a weird, unprecedented move on ADVs behalf but I'm not complaining.

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I doubt those specs on Girl's High are final, but I could see why they wouldn't bother with a dub, since it's very ecchi, will probably only appeal to a small crowd(say Tenjho Tenge/Ikki Tousen fans) and the company publishing the manga doesn't have a lot of market penetration.

Read on AoD that Girl's High and certian other titles are going to be sub only, and was sort of/was confirmed by Sirabella. THe actual post itself escapes me, but yeah, it's not going to have an English dub. If it does Ill eat part of a hat.

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Hell, I could see why Dreamworks chose to leave Millennium Actress un-dubbed; but that's no excuse for Innocence.

Very true. If MangaUK and Madman, companies that are MUCH smaller than Dreamworks, could fork out the dough for a dub (which was very well done, by the way), then Dreamworks are simply penny piunching. There was this great post by Jonothan Klien somewheres that basically gave everyone reaons as to why Dreamworks are cheapskates, but I can't for the life of me remember where it is.

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In BV's case, though, I'm not sure why they would release a show like Enma, which is clearly trying to cash in on a popular series like Hellsing, if it's not dubbed.

I think you'd find that things meant to 'cash in' on the popularity of something aren't given much in the way of favourable treatment. It's put out for relativley as cheap as possible while taking advantage of what it can, to maybe turn over a buck. but I honestly dont see how Enma really works on the popularity of Hellsing.

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Not entirely sure what you meant by the first bit,

Tekkaman was originally released in the U.S. as Teknoman.

I say don't dub anything now that's from earlier than, say, 1985 or even 1990, excepting Gundam. There's no way that some Gundam works should be dubbed and others subbed. Treat the whole universe consistently, I say. The same goes for dubbing all things GitS except Innocence. Stupid move. But from a certain point on, everything ought to be dubbed. I mean, come on, let's not encourage these companies in their half-assedness.

I agree that the older shows like Dunbine aren't going to benefit from a dub and aren't going to sell more copied for being dubbed. But there are some good anime that can serve as gateways to newbies if only they were dubbed. Being subbed, there's just that extra hang-up for some people to get over before they can decide whether anime speaks to them. Certainly no one wants anime to be sub-only outside Japan? Unless you believe in fanatically walling yourself inside your Anime Fandom City and admitting no one new unless they have the ability to absorb something entirely new in an entirely foreign language. I don't think that should be asked of people before they can sign up for anime fandom.

Iritscen wrote:

Certainly no one wants anime to be sub-only outside Japan?

I do not think the last few posters were even insinuating that anime be sub only. I actually find myself agreeing that a better researched and better balanced ratio of sub only or dub added could make anime a much more lucrative business for US release.

There was a time when I couldn't stand subtitles, but that was back when I was a kid. As an adult I far prefer the additional exposure that low-volume niche titles could receive if domestic distributors didn't feel obligated to appease everyone by applying a dub to every release. Some of the folks are worried that we might be seeing a trend toward more subtitled-only content. If it means we can get more obscure titles brought over to R1 then I'm actually all for it. I import a few things from Japan but that doesn't mean I have endless amounts of cash to burn and the vast majority of what is available in Japan still doesn't come with English subtitles at any price. In addition, even though I'm not anti-dub I won't exactly miss it if it means I can knock $5-$10 off each disc (which is what it often looks like outside of the absurd BVUSA pricing scheme).

Haterater wrote:

I am handicapped, and I don't believe in people's works to be reduced and the likes. Authors and creators should want their works to reach as many people as they can if possible. I'm talking for those out there who have to rely on dubs, just like deaf people have to rely on subs. No difference here, IMO. Subs are as much handicap as dubs.

I see what you're getting at and I'll admit it's certainly a worthy position, but I think many of the titles that I want to see just won't ever sell well enough to pay for a proper dub. In that case I think it's perfectly fine for a distributor to release something with a subtitle only as opposed to not releasing it at all. Just take a look at what happened with Super Gals season two. Either we got the subtitle only version or we got nothing at all. In that case I'd take the subtitled version in a heartbeat.

10円 wrote:

Haterater wrote:

I am handicapped, and I don't believe in people's works to be reduced and the likes. Authors and creators should want their works to reach as many people as they can if possible. I'm talking for those out there who have to rely on dubs, just like deaf people have to rely on subs. No difference here, IMO. Subs are as much handicap as dubs.

I see what you're getting at and I'll admit it's certainly a worthy position, but I think many of the titles that I want to see just won't ever sell well enough to pay for a proper dub. In that case I think it's perfectly fine for a distributor to release something with a subtitle only as opposed to not releasing it at all. Just take a look at what happened with Super Gals season two. Either we got the subtitle only version or we got nothing at all. In that case I'd take the subtitled version in a heartbeat.

I agree with you about that.

Its just that I was really irk when someone earlier said that there should be no dubs period and forgetting about fans like myself. If possible, I would love for authors, creators, distrubuters, and etc to not forgot about us. Especially since there are fansubs around and no real fundubs. In my case, I'll always buy the DVD if I can.

Iritscen wrote:

I agree that the older shows like Dunbine aren't going to benefit from a dub and aren't going to sell more copied for being dubbed. But there are some good anime that can serve as gateways to newbies if only they were dubbed. Being subbed, there's just that extra hang-up for some people to get over before they can decide whether anime speaks to them. Certainly no one wants anime to be sub-only outside Japan? Unless you believe in fanatically walling yourself inside your Anime Fandom City and admitting no one new unless they have the ability to absorb something entirely new in an entirely foreign language. I don't think that should be asked of people before they can sign up for anime fandom.

Actually believe it or not but every person I've converted over to anime I start by showing them subtitled anime. My success rate is actually above 70% or so for getting people to watch anime consistently. Some went and watched a little dubs, decided they didn't like it and started watching sub only also. Some often have an initial refusal to watch in sub but I give it a little forcing and within a few weeks they agree with me.

My belief is if you start out watching dubs you will quite often keep watching dubs if that person is the non-proactive-not-searching-for-perfection type. (Now of course there are exceptions but this is the general case from what I've seen.) I've seen that happen several times. For lots of people I know, the ONLY reason they watch dub-only is because they never even tried the sub. They all watch the CN late night stuff buy a dvd here and there and never touch the sub.

I myself started by watching digimon, pokemon, dbz, and several others dubbed. The only reason I was watching those is I just didn't know about the sub hardly. Then at one point I got out the CardCaptors dvds from the libraries and they were sub only, I was initially very disappointed but watched them anyway and soon got used to the japanese voicing. Later I started watching Gundam Seed on tv and I heard the awesome 30 second clip of the actual opening. I started wondering if there was a longer version available. After a little internet looking I found it and was surprised. A little while later I wanted to try downloading the dubbed episodes because I liked the anime so much and to catch up on ones I missed. In the process I discovered Bittorrent and started downloading dubbed episodes. I found it very hard to find the dubbed episodes so I gave BoxTorrent's Gundam Seed torrent a try and after watching a few episodes that way discovered how much better it was. I then did a Gundam Seed marathon of the fansubbed episodes and watched the entire series in about 2 days. After that I was pretty much converted and watched few dubs afterwards. I now watch almost exclusively fansubs (yes I know I need to start buying more and I will be soon, soon as I get more income). I never watch dubs now except for the occasional one when I'm forced to for some reason or another. And then I usually try to avoid it by sticking in headphones as hearing good characters I know voiced by people that need to go back to school (or take some learning from japan) gives me ear burn. I think I would have much preferred it though had someone showed me subbed anime at an earlier age. (Oh and as a final note, I now no longer love Gundam Seed. I discovered this after aging a few years older (and how much money I wasted buying all 10 dvds).)

Ergzay wrote:

hearing good characters I know voiced by people that need to go back to school (or take some learning from japan) gives me ear burn.

This is funny, because in a majority of releases, a dub is produced and acted by those with various TV, film and acting credentials (theatre, what not) and actually do have degrees in PROPER acting. Japanese performers, on the other hand, and moreso nowerdays are trained in schools specificlaly for voice acting, which they have to try and subsize their career by shilling out with 'idol' CDs and junk.

Truth is, the reason it does sound awkward is due to three factors, one being a primarily US AND Japanese thing, in that a poor director and cast is chosen, either here or in the US, for the English version (note CPM bringing the director of the Utena movie to do the English dub, and it turning out to be absolute crap). That mouth flaps aren't actually proper in either language, and since US companies have standards in how their stuff is presented in English, match up lip flaps. The third being crap source material to work with in the first place, IE it's a bad anime, regardless of language.

Besies which, telling them to go "learn from the japanese" is an absolute joke. There is nothing the Japanese can teach them that they don't already know/do, it's the process of how it's done that's different.

You are right though, in that people who do stick to dubs only watch dubbed anime, and vice versa. What I say is to be open minded enough to give both a fair shot. Then again, people who continually download like, fansubs and the like, are only going to get exposed to one aspect or side of it and therefore are going to have hugely squewered ideas or bias, consider Japanese and English are HUGELY different languages, despite word sharing/incorperation.

Steventheeunuch wrote:

This is funny, because in a majority of releases, a dub is produced and acted by those with various TV, film and acting credentials (theatre, what not) and actually do have degrees in PROPER acting. Japanese performers, on the other hand, and moreso nowerdays are trained in schools specificlaly for voice acting, which they have to try and subsize their career by shilling out with 'idol' CDs and junk.

This is true except for the fact that acting is not the same as voice acting. In voice acting you can't use your facial expressions or actions to show meaning and you have to rely entirely on your voice. In general I've found that most american voice actors do a poor job at this or they do it way too much and kill their part with over acting.

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Truth is, the reason it does sound awkward is due to three factors, one being a primarily US AND Japanese thing, in that a poor director and cast is chosen, either here or in the US, for the English version (note CPM bringing the director of the Utena movie to do the English dub, and it turning out to be absolute crap). That mouth flaps aren't actually proper in either language, and since US companies have standards in how their stuff is presented in English, match up lip flaps. The third being crap source material to work with in the first place, IE it's a bad anime, regardless of language.

I agree with you completely.

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Besies which, telling them to go "learn from the japanese" is an absolute joke. There is nothing the Japanese can teach them that they don't already know/do, it's the process of how it's done that's different.

They could modify their style to match japanese style. Although I doubt thats very possible and even if it was possible they would never do it.

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You are right though, in that people who do stick to dubs only watch dubbed anime, and vice versa. What I say is to be open minded enough to give both a fair shot. Then again, people who continually download like, fansubs and the like, are only going to get exposed to one aspect or side of it and therefore are going to have hugely squewered ideas or bias, consider Japanese and English are HUGELY different languages, despite word sharing/incorperation.

And I have to remind you, in my previous post I mentioned how I was a long time dub watcher of the standard generic anime. And I do try dubs occasionally and rarely if ever do they meet expectations. Ex. a few of the disney dubs of Ghibli movies were decent other than the fact they rewrote some lines. That was because they hired high profile actors who have a broad range of experiences which even though they weren't explicitly trained to act only using their voice, they were good enough at acting to make up for that.

I might add that from what I've seen the mindset of american anime companies and japanese anime companies is different. Japanese anime companies are out to make lots of money and try to appeal to their audience as much as possible. They have quite a good idea on what fans of their anime want. The charge the heck out of them and give them good producs (with DVDs with lots of "good" extras). American companies on the other hand consider IMO (more past than present) that the main aim of anime is towards younger people. They attempt to cater to this with sqeaky female voices and almost monotone male voices rather than try and choose to try and fit the role. Even if they aim at an older audience they could care less what their fans think of them. (Although this is of course not without exceptions like the treatment Suzumiya Haruhi is getting which is much appreciated.)

I have actually seen some big differences in performances between the dub and the sub that I never would have noticed when I was new to anime. For instance, Yukina in Nadesico was so much funnier in Japanese. Her "sneak, sneak" lines she utters while sneaking are much more natural, whereas in English they sound forced.

CCSYueh wrote:

A lot of the extras seem to be "First Press" release. I've noticed it at CD Japan on cds atleast & on Funi's Basilisk release, the interviews are listed as First Press extras.

"First Press" extras as normally pack-ins. Corrrect me if I'm wrong, but I belive the only cases where there are actually different pressings of the discs themselves are where there is a higher-priced limited edition release.

GATSU wrote:

I'd imagine the reverse importation thing is exaggerated, since I doubt the Japanese fans would want to wait weeks for their show to be shipped there, unless it's only marginally appealing to them.

I import DVDs from Japan, it is not such a hassle. Don't forget that these Japanese fans will, the exception of OVAs, will have already seen the episodes on TV and may have made home recordings so the DVD is, at the end of the day, just something to put on the shelf.