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willag
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:46 pm Reply with quote


Attack on Titan (manga) (Shingeki no Kyojin)

Genres: action, fantasy, horror
Themes: apocalyptic, conspiracy, military, mutants, steampunk, tragedy

Plot Summary: Eren Jaeger lives in city surrounded by monolithic walls. Outside dwell human murdering Titans. For decades members of the Scouting Legion have been the only humans who dared to leave the safety of the walls and gather information on the Titans. Every time they return, many of them are dead. Freedom loving Eren has no greater wish than to join them.
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Instead of potentially pissing others off in the anime thread by discussing things that occur later on in the manga, I've created this thread.

And also, I just really want to discuss some theories.

As a warning, I have read up to the latest chapter of the manga released in Japan, so the things I have spoilered below may also want to be avoided by those who are reading the volumes as they're being released in America.

So, theory about the Titans: spoiler[It's not a new thought, but one I've had for a while and wanted to discuss. From what it looks like, the Church and/or Government is behind the creation of the Titans, which are created from humans. The breed of Titan that Eren is has shown that the reason Titans can only be killed in their neck is because that's where the original person resides. The Titan body is basically a biomedically-engineered vehicle created for the sole purpose of killing people.]

spoiler[So were the Titans' creation experimentation that had gone completely wrong and out of control or has all of their moves been carefully controlled with the intention for mass genocide? I'm leaning towards the latter. Is it a form of Nazism, killing off all of the "impure" races of humans until only those in the most inner walls are left (i.e. the aristocracy, the powerful, those who funded the research)? Or is the end goal to eventually kill off all of humanity and allow the new breed of humans to inherit the earth (the humans who can transform into Titans)? And the humans who can transform into Titans... are they working for the government or are they part of a faction trying to rebel against the government?]

The series is extremely fascinating, and I love how the secrets are slowly being unraveled. I only just read the three latest chapters tonight (chapters 42-44), which puts episode 2 in a whole new light. spoiler[Holy shit, Reiner and and Bertholt. I mean, I shouldn't be so surprised. I figured that the Colossal and Armored Titans had to be someone from the main group. But, man... Reiner! I like you Reiner! Or I did. Well, I still do. Graaah.]


Last edited by willag on Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mad_Scientist



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 2352

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:44 am Reply with quote
My post also has spoilers up to the Japanese releases. Be warned all.

You have some interesting ideas willag, but I don't think I quite agree. Not that I have a definite theory myself, but here are some musing of mine.

spoiler[There are at least 3 different factions of intelligent titans. There's the group that consists of Annie, Reiner, and Bertholt, who launched the attack on the walls 5 years ago. We also have the hair covered titan introduced recently, who didn't know for sure what language humans spoke and was curious about the 3D gear, so clearly he's not part of the same group as Annie/etc since they already know those things. And finally, there's Ymir, who seems part of a different group altogether.

And if you include Eren and the Titans inside the walls, perhaps 5 different groups of intelligent titans. Who'd have thought what was first introduced as just a bunch of dumb monsters would end up so complicated?]


spoiler[Reiner and Bertholt had a flashback involving them nearly being killed by a titan, and that titan was in fact Ymir (or at least looked exactly like her titan form). This brings to light all sorts of weird possibilities. First, though, is that the flashback should be impossible based on what we know. Even if we accept the idea that Reiner and Bertholt didn't have the ability to turn into titans at that time, when would they have ever been vulnerable to a titan attack? After all, titans have been unable to attack humans for 100 years, and the ones who changed that were in fact Reiner and Bertholt themselves. There's no point in time where they should have been vulnerable, based on what we know.

I've been wondering for a while now, though, if there really aren't any humans left alive outside the walls. Not sure exactly how they'd survive with titans everywhere, but it's an idea. If it's true, perhaps Reiner and Bertholt lived in a human village outside the walls at one point.]


spoiler[Ymir made a reference to having died and been reborn. I don't know if this was meant figuratively or literally, but I suspect it may have actually been a literal reference. If there is some form of reincarnation going on, then perhaps Reiner and Bertholt's memory was actually from the distant past, from before the walls were created.]

spoiler[Normal dumb titans don't seem to actually have humans inside of them, despite having the same weak point. At least I think that someone would have noticed it by now if every one of them had a human. Interestingly enough, it seems as the dumb titans might still be transformed humans, based on what happened to Conny's village.

Which once again makes me suspect humans might exist outside the walls. After all, if all titans are transformed humans, where do new titans outside the walls come from if there are no humans?]


spoiler[I don't think the religious organization is actively malicious. The priest in the recent story arc seems to genuinely believe that keeping silent is for the best, even if all of humanity is killed. (Or at least all of humanity inside the walls). Not sure what exactly he's thinking, but I don't think it's something like he's supporting some "ethnic cleansing" or the like.]

spoiler[That said, your idea about some sort of genocide does bring up something kind of creepy about the series. Remember in Mikasa's flashback how it was revealed that she was half Asian, and her mother and her were the only Asians left alive? How even the concept of races had to be explained to one of the thugs cause everyone inside the walls is all the same? I guess they'll all white people.

That's kind of uncomfortable, and makes me think that if any sort of "cleansing" or whatever occurred, it's already happened.]


Anyways, hopefully my seemingly random musing make some sort of sense.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warning, once again this post has spoilers that reveal or hint at things up to the latest Japanese manga chapters at this time... which would be chapter 45.



Watching the anime and enjoying it, and as I do, I'm noticing little details I missed when first reading the manga. spoiler[Like how often Reiner, Bertholt, and Annie are together. And how Annie and Reiner were the ones who suggested they try and save Eren-in-titan-form before they knew who he was.]

Another thing involves the flashback scene with Mikasa and Eren as kids. spoiler[I had already noticed how Mikasa somehow broke the floor. Always struck me as a little weird. What I had somehow failed to notice was how she also gripped the knife so hard she shattered the handle. That's a little weird, and makes me wonder. Some over in the anime thread have speculated that maybe Eren's father was doing some sort of experiment on her, though obviously different than what he did with Eren. Not sure about that, but it's an idea. It's also given me another idea (see below).]

I've also been thinking a bit about the timing of the titan attacks, and the possible motives behind them. spoiler[What exactly were Reiner/Bertholt/Annie after? Well, it seems like they are following orders, so what were the people giving them orders after? If they just wanted to destroy humanity inside the walls, they should have pressed the attack more. Unless the people in the interior have something really special hidden there, they would have been pretty screwed if if the titans had continued to break the gates rather than giving them 5 years to recover and strengthen their defenses.

And why did they infiltrate the walls and become soldiers? Again, if they just wanted to destroy all the humans inside the walls, there was little need to do that.]


spoiler[I think that perhaps their goal was never to kill humans, but rather to identify (and then either recover or destroy) Eren's father's research. This idea came to me from the theory that he was doing experiments on Mikasa of a different sort than Eren's injections. If he's some sort of mad scientist doing weird things, then his position as a doctor would have given him a whole town full of potential guinea pigs. Remember that plague he saved the town from? Wonder if it was just medicine he gave people.

My theory is that a member of the Survey Corps had some sort of experiment done on him by Eren's father, and on a mission outside the walls the intelligent human/titans learned about it. And so they broke down the gate of the wall town the Survey Corps member had come from, in order to lure out any humans who can turn into titans or humans with superhuman abilities, or whatever other weirdness Eren's father may have been working on. When none showed up, they broke down the additional gate to add extra incentive.]


spoiler[After they still didn't encounter any oddities, they were sent to infiltrate the walls to try and learn more. They joined the military, as that would put them in the best position to learn about possible experimental research with military applications. In order to provide more pressure on the humans inside the walls, once again they were ordered to breach the gate of a wall town, though I notice this time Reiner didn't turn into the armored titan and breach the inner gate.

And so they finally found Eren. I'm guessing from that moment on they've been doing everything they can to try and capture Eren, but still keep their cover if possible (in case there are other experimental research products like Eren they can learn more about). Of course, keeping their cover is kind of over now.]


Anyways, that's my long rambling idea, that the spoiler[human-titans were always after Eren's father's research and killing humans inside the walls was just incidental to them.]

{Merged serial posts. ~nobahn}
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PiuPiuThePENGUIN



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:03 pm Reply with quote
I am really amazed with how many spoilers this Manga is being introduced to this forum xD I just started to get into this series and I am afraid to look at all the spoilers hahaha xD

Nice to meet you likeminded people! I'll come back later when I know more xD
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TsunaReborn!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:21 am Reply with quote
PiuPiuThePENGUIN wrote:
I am really amazed with how many spoilers this Manga is being introduced to this forum xD I just started to get into this series and I am afraid to look at all the spoilers hahaha xD

Nice to meet you likeminded people! I'll come back later when I know more xD


Haha I feel the same, I have read up to chapter 22 (end of volume 5) to coinside with the physical release and I'm afraid a lot of these spoilers contain events from future volumes via scanlations/Japanese importers. I think it's best to hit the back button and never return Wink
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PiuPiuThePENGUIN



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:12 am Reply with quote
TsunaReborn! wrote:
PiuPiuThePENGUIN wrote:
I am really amazed with how many spoilers this Manga is being introduced to this forum xD I just started to get into this series and I am afraid to look at all the spoilers hahaha xD

Nice to meet you likeminded people! I'll come back later when I know more xD


Haha I feel the same, I have read up to chapter 22 (end of volume 5) to coinside with the physical release and I'm afraid a lot of these spoilers contain events from future volumes via scanlations/Japanese importers. I think it's best to hit the back button and never return Wink


Welcome, you will understand my confusion then xD how do you think about the series? and do you also watch it or just read it Smile?
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RAmmsoldat



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:30 am Reply with quote
im also up to the end of vol.5 because i don't read scans when buying a series, makes it all new to me when reading and ups the desire to get the book asap.

Watching the anime also but its fast catching up with the English language version of the manga, its a good job the speed up is kicking off next month and that the anime pads bits out.

Y ruler of time did an episode of read right to left on attack on titan and he mentioned how it was rejected from jump, im glad isayama resisted making changes and got the story out in tact.
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TsunaReborn!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:41 pm Reply with quote
RAmmsoldat like you I do not read scan unless I physically can not buy the series I.E volume 17 of Reborn! And beyond. I like to discover the story as I read the book as I have paid good money to obtain the copy.

@ PiuPiuThePENGUIN I do not watch the series but I am really enjoying the manga. I feel the story has kept away from being too predictable and I feel the pacing is good - a lot of action in the first few volumes then slows down to give some back story and explanation on the situation and the plan going forward and then to some more action (that's not to say that I have to have action in a series to enjoy as Slice of Life is my favourite genre).

I was unsure on the art to start with but that has never stopped me reading a series before and I have now come to appreciate it, especially their eyes which I found the most difficult to tolerate when I started the series.

By the looks of the amount of black out above the story developers at a fairly fast rate with what appears to be plenty of evens. I'm not sure where the series is going but I can't wait to find out.

Piupiu what are your thoughts?
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willag
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:22 pm Reply with quote
So, just as a warning, this post will be filled with spoilers later than what the anime covers (and what the manga currently released in the US covers).

So, I just finished watching episode 17, and I think the anime is making a few things more obvious than what the manga did.

Such as spoiler[Reiner's alliances. He specifically removed his hood before he attacked Annie. He went straight for her neck despite Armin mentioning that she will probably have too good of a defense to attempt that. Annie spent several moments looking at her hand before finally running off to the back center where Eren was located.]

I think having things animated instead of what's just snapshots of certain moments (in manga form) just makes certain things much more obvious. Of course, since I already know this stuff it makes it easier to spot, but still.

Also, for as much as the anime spends in the characters' heads (we've gotten to hear from Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Jean, Connie, and Sasha) we haven't gotten inside the heads of spoiler[Annie, Reiner, Bertholt, Ymir, and Christa], which I think is pretty telling in itself.

Also, as Mad_Scientist mentioned, several of these characters are often seen together. spoiler[It's funny noticing how much Annie, Reiner, and Berholt hang out at the beginning.]

Then again, my experience is going to be different from everyone whose first experience was watching the anime. I caught up to some of the later chapters in the manga before really knowing the characters and being able to distinguish between them, because I read through the manga so fast. It wasn't until subsequent re-reads of the manga, and watching the anime, that I really got to know the characters. Had I been paying attention and really gotten to know the characters, I might have picked up on some of the hints.

Another big difference is the community. I didn't have anyone to bounce ideas off of at the time waiting for the next chapters. But in the anime thread, people are already making predictions of future surprises (spoiler[someone just made a guess that Reiner is the Armoured Titan and Bertholt is the Colossal Titan]) that won't end up being as surprising as what my experience was. Because once you're already introduced to theories, even if they weren't your own, the eventual reveal won't be as shocking.

And as for the latest chapters of the manga... agh, I can't wait for more! spoiler[So I'm guessing that Ymir is a Titan outside of the wall that eventually gained human forms again (running on the assumption that all Titans were previously humans), and that she has been around for as long as when the Titans were first created. I'm still thinking that they're some sort of biological weapon that was created by scientists/Christa's group. I'm not certain if Reiner, Bert, and Annie are also as old as Ymir. Their situation seems a bit different - humans who were born after the first Titan attack 100 years ago from a group of humans who have been able to live outside of the walls. Then again maybe they were apart of the first wave of Titans, similar to Ymir, who eventually gained human form again.]

I'm looking forward to more!
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Mad_Scientist



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:42 pm Reply with quote
willag wrote:


Then again, my experience is going to be different from everyone whose first experience was watching the anime. I caught up to some of the later chapters in the manga before really knowing the characters and being able to distinguish between them, because I read through the manga so fast. It wasn't until subsequent re-reads of the manga, and watching the anime, that I really got to know the characters. Had I been paying attention and really gotten to know the characters, I might have picked up on some of the hints.


I had a similar issue, and part of it is the artwork I think. Black and white, with a realistic style for the character designs, and all the cast wearing wearing the same uniforms 95% the time... I had a similar issue telling characters apart in Claymore. I remember when I first saw the anime promo that revealed the character designs for the AoT anime, my first thought was "yaaay, now I'll be able to tell Reiner and Jean apart from each other. And Krista and Armin as well!"
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RedSwirl



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Okay, manga people. I haven't read the manga yet. I'm still watching the anime, but I have been spoiled by the wiki as to who the spoiler[titan shifters] are. I just wanna know one thing: spoiler[Is it implied their hometown is from within the walls our outside the walls? And has it been implied that Erin's dad traveled somewhere outside the walls?]
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Kyleo-Kun



Joined: 07 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:45 am Reply with quote
Just thought this would be a suitable placee to post what i think of the manga...well it's simply awesome. I started with watching the anime then the manga. So happy i did it's just so far ahead, i can't even imagine waiting for the anime to catch up. It has quiet the unusual art style though from what i'm used to though, did anyone else find it a bit different but on the other hand i guess it made it unique to other mangas
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Spotlesseden



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:17 am Reply with quote
Kyleo-Kun wrote:
Just thought this would be a suitable placee to post what i think of the manga...well it's simply awesome. I started with watching the anime then the manga. So happy i did it's just so far ahead, i can't even imagine waiting for the anime to catch up. It has quiet the unusual art style though from what i'm used to though, did anyone else find it a bit different but on the other hand i guess it made it unique to other mangas


I think the art is just bad. the mangaka can't draw every well.

spoiler[Ackerman = Uchiha of AoT?]
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:44 am Reply with quote
Doesn't anybody read this manga?

The latest chapter is 61, and it was a whopper spoiler[Erwin managed to spark a bloodless military coup by getting help from Pixis and Zackley. He turned his own trial into a judgement against the nobles and ruling class with a titan scare that proved that the people in charge would be pretty much okay with everyone else dying. ]

spoiler[So, everything's good, right? Erwin is spared execution, the survey corps is free, and the puppet king was kicked off his throne...

Except the last panel shows Eren in chains on some sort of alter, Historia looking nice in a fancy dress standing near her dad, the actual king, Rod Reiss, and Kenny with a nasty grin brandishing a knife. Will King Rod force Historia to eat Eren in order to turn her into a Titan Shifter?]
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Why doesn't anyone here read Attack on Titan?! Did anyone read chapter 62? Go read it!

So something was confirmed in chapter 62 that people had speculated about, something I did not want to believe possible.

spoiler[Eren ate his dad! Eren actually ate his own father. That is seriously messed up! To be clear, it seems that Grisha wanted Eren to eat him (eww, sounds dirty!). He injected Eren with a syringe, which we all saw in the flashbacks, but in this chapter we see what happens next: Eren transforms into a mini titan-esque creature and chomps down on his dad. He later comes to, sees his father's half eaten body and freaks out. No one can blame him for blocking that memory and I kind of feel bad that Historia and her father forced him to remember it this week.]

There's other stuff, too, but the implications of that one scene explains so much and will have lots of consequences going forward.
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RAmmsoldat



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:32 am Reply with quote
yeah read it, didn't see that coming tbh and am keen to see what happens next. spoiler[ Im glad that the whole internal struggle thing has been wrapped up more or less]
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