Forum - View topicBuried Treasure - Ai no Kusabi
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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There are some truly adult-only groups, like AMLA on yahoo where the discussions are generally scholarly and the average age probably upper 20s / lower 30s. And there are mangaka-specific communities on LJ which are a bit more strict about enforcing the 18+ rules than some of the general yaoi communities which have far too many 13-14 year olds. But if you go places like Aarin or any forum for BL manga imprints you'll be inundated with the immature. Most of us older fans avoid those places like the plague unless we have specific questions that can only be answered there.
Oh, I agree about Bronze. They just always come in a mental pair for me. I really liked Zetsui, but I've been unable to keep reading the sequel since it's gotten so melodramatic. By the end of the series I fully expect the two main characters to have had all their limbs ripped off, their eyes gouged out, and been emasculated all in the name of love. Speaking for myself, I don't find any of the character designs in yaoi anime attractive. Yaoi manga, yes (Yamane Ayano, anyone?). But yaoi translates very poorly into anime in that respect, for me at least. Except maybe for Winter Cicada. But I watch yaoi anime for the stories and romance, though some don't provide either one. 
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an_ink_pen
Posts: 1 |
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Thanks a lot for your wonderful review of the anime "Ai no Kusabi"! I agree when you say,
"If there was a piece worth overcoming one's dislike of the genre for, this is the one." However, I wonder whether the viewers who generally stay away from yaoi would sit through the more graphic scenes. I mean, rather than the idea of romance between two men, I've found the objection is more to the physical relationship between them.
'Winter Cicada' is definitely a brilliant one. I prefer the 'selfishness' portrayed in 'Winter Cicada'. It resembles 'Ai no Kusabi' in that respect, too. One of the reasons why the best of yaoi draws me more than the best of shoujo is the desire to 'live and love' rather than sacrifice. Of course, sacrifice figures in 'Ai no Kusabi'. However, unlike the general trend (there are always exceptions), it is not 'for the good of the world' - but only for love. I like desperate love stories. And yes, that also implies I'm a fan of Zetsuai/Bronze, too. I love both of them because although Bronze is inching towards "the ridiculous", it is enchanting! Last edited by an_ink_pen on Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:31 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Tenchi Kaze
 Posts: 28 Location: Alberta, Canada |
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Hear, hear. If you hadn't said it first, I was going to. I consider myself in the same group of more mature fans (or at least more mature-minded), yet I have no issues with your description of the yaoi fanbase in general. I run into far too many of the girls you have described both on forums and at conventions to disagree with you. The exception does not disprove the rule. I'm sure a lot of typical yaoi fangirl behaviour stems from them being young and hyperactive in general, since I used to have a lot of annoying fangirl tendencies myself when I was 14 or 15. That doesn't make it any less annoying to everyone else around them, though. I've tried reasoning with girls like that before, say, by telling them that polarized seme-uke dynamics are mostly unrealistic and silly, or that glomping strangers without permission at cons is just not acceptable. Things like that. What do I get for my efforts? Bupkiss. And I got licked on the cheek by someone I didn't even know. Urgh.
Does Earthian really even count as yaoi? The anime features the two lead males in bed together for maybe five seconds, and that ends with Chihaya saying "I can't" because his mind is on something else. Overall, the OVAs have BL implications, but there isn't really enough there to call the whole anime BL or yaoi, in my opinion. The manga? Sure, that's more BL because it goes into more detail on the subject than the OVA does. But the OVA on its own is just so much more focused on other things that calling it a yaoi or shounen-ai anime is mostly misleading. Ha ha, I have to agree with you about Zetsuai/Bronze! I'll admit, I do like the character designs, but they grew on me over time the more people exposed me to them (granted, a few pieces of art from the original manga still make me boggle). From what I remember, though the story and relationship is just over-the-top a lot of the time, and sometimes just doesn't make any logical sense. I think the best thing to come out of Zetsuai/Bronze is probably Cathexis, which was a collection of four music videos set to songs sung by Koji Nanjo's seiyuu, Sho Hayami. I love Hayami's voice, and the songs he does for the videos are pretty decent, though one of them has a weird title that doesn't make any sense when combined with the lyrics for it ("Jesus Christ Love for You"). And the videos themselves that go with the songs are very, very well done. The first one was a little silly (it seemed like they were trying too hard to be "badass sexy vid") the first time I watched it, but the other three I thought were gorgeous all the way through. And since a music video doesn't have to make as much straightforward sense as a normal anime, the flaws of the Zetsuai/Bronze plot can be glossed over in these videos and make them easier to watch. The best example of this is the third video, 20XX ZETSU-AI, which presents the lead characters leading alternate lives in a post-apocalyptic future, but still being drawn to one another by the shadows of their past lives. |
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ikky
Posts: 76 |
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Great review/article! I love the concept of BL, but most anime in the genre is garbage.
I see no one has mentioned Kaze to Ki no Uta? Another wonderful OVA that is largely unknown of. |
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sunflower
Posts: 1080 |
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Actually, not to change the subject here, but a gay friend I was just speaking to over the holidays was surprised to hear that opinion was common among BL fans, saying most gay men he knew preferred to be one or the other. He told me this was a non-argument.
The manga is technically shoujo, having been published in a shoujo magazine, but that's because there were no yaoi magazines back then (all yaoi was shoujo). But by standards in US publishing, where it's published by a yaoi imprint, yes it is. The whole point of Earthian is that their homosexual love is punished in heaven by death, so they run away to Earth together to fight as rebels. It's not the amount of time people have sex on screen that makes something yaoi or not. |
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hack_benjamin22
Posts: 136 |
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Ai no Kusabi has never read like a yaoi piece to me, but more like a romance story that just so happens to be between these two people. And I think that's why it works so well. Also, the fangirl in me rejoices over the science fiction backdrop because it's my favorite genre in any medium. I didn't think it was terribly graphic in nature, but then again my perception of this sort of thing is a bit skewed. I also thought the actors did a remarkable job with the voices.
As earlier people have mentioned Mirage of Blaze is also a fairly notable title, but the anime leaves much to be desired as it was, as Ai no Kusabi, made for fans of the novel series. I think the novel series is something like 50 volumes long with a lot of historical backdrop that can quickly become confusing.
I actually like the character designs of both the OVA's and the manga, but then again I've always liked that sort of style done by any artist. I know Zetsuai is supposed to be serious but I couldn't help laughing at it. I swear they should just rent a room at the hospital and live there. It'd make things easier on everyone.
I'm pretty sure that no one dies(at least no one important), though a few characters come close and one I'm not sure about. I believe the series has 'offically' ended at Vol. 14, though the ending was very open-ended and Ozaki may pick it up again sometime in the future. EDIT: Fixed some html[/quote] |
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kimurasensei
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Firstly, thank you for the Buried Treasure section. I've found many great works thanks to it, and revisited many others I'm already fond of.
Second, I can't thank you enough for adding Ai no Kusabi to the list. This is certainly my favourite of the genre. I was deeply moved upon first viewing, and its profound effect hasn't worn off. Everything about it is wonderful. It left me feeling, 'I've just seen something so indescribably gorgeous, and I want to know these characters better; I want to immerse myself in this world.' Hopefully, thanks to your contribution, this glorious story will be buried no longer, and will seduce others to the already dedicated fan base. As it rightly deserves. |
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scortia
 Posts: 174 |
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I'm so impressed you covered Ai no Kusabi. While Riki's gradual changing into a total chick by the end amuses me, I do agree with you about how the earlier power struggle is quite interesting.
Also, this oav probably has the highest number of unfinished cigarettes in any anime ever created. 
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Isn't that rather common. Isn't there a line in Camelot about women not thinking very often, but Arthur wonders what a man is to do when they're doing it? And the answer is just love us. TADA! And, yes, I like that sort of design & the designs in Mirage of Blaze & Gakuen Heaven & Loveless & Earthian... You are really being unfair about the yaoi fanbase. Come on, I've yet to be at any gathering of fans that rivals the hysteria that was Beatlemania. No, I was only a child, but I "discovered" the band in the 70's & read/watched everything I could find on them. One of the reasons they gave up touring was the fact it was impossible to hear themselves play over the screaming fans. Yaoi fangirls may squeal, but they do not maintain the din for 30 minutes or more. I remember being grossed out in the 70's reading about Tom Jones fans throwing bras & panties at him since I knew the general age range of his fans. Are the younger yaoi fans really all that different from the newb young fans of Naruto, DBZ, etc who can go on forever if less than coherantly about Gaara or Sasuke or Gohan or Goku or.......? They're young. They'll grow up. They'll probably be embarrassed they ever behaved like that. But at least they had fun. And the rude ones I more blame the parents. When I go to con, I take a radio set which my daughter has always used responsibly. I reemed her out & ordered her never to let one friend use it after I caught the friend conversing in an inappropriate manner on it. (the friend was stalking a "cute" guy) I can trust my daughter to behave, so I let her wander the con freely, but just last yr, the mother of that girl was looking all over for her for not checking in regularly & not being at meeting points. The only yaoi forum I frequent is Boys on Boys which is an adult forum & the conversations are pretty mature. Recently we've been discussing the appeal of yaoi & the impact of the "male gaze" on society in general. Many of us comment on how we love the hot guys, but also the differences between Japanese & American culture that impact the yaoi fanbases.
It was one of the earliest titles I saw on International. My teen & I track VA's & Kazuhiko Inoue is forever known as "the rough angel" for that conversation where Chihaya complained about how rough Kagetsuya was last night in bed. Just because it doesn't show sex doesn't mean it isn't yaoi. Hollywood movies in the 30's didn't have to show the couple ripping one another's clothes off to show they had sex-one picked up on the clues-things said & done On the other hand, I do buy Yun Kouga is more shoujo than yaoi. Granted, my only experience is Earthian & Loveless, but both include yaoi couples, yuri couples & hetero couples. |
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nightmaregenie
 Posts: 167 Location: Palmy, NZ - student central |
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This confuses me a little. I've always thought that, being written (primarily, at least, though I don't know if there are yaoi works done by homosexuals) by straight people and aimed at straight females, yaoi relationships and stories tend to be on the more unrealistic side and don't usually reflect true homosexuality. So do/can real gays actually appreciate yaoi? Just curious to know. I gotta say, Justin's review changed my opinion about the genre a bit. I usually take anything and everything manga/anime-related that's got good, substential contents regardless of genre, but most of the yaoi material I've come across are not particularly noteworthy. I looked up Ai no Kusabi yesterday after reading his article and I was impressed. Who knows, maybe one of these days I'll look up those titles the others suggested in this thread. |
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jeti
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Just wanted to say that I was honestly surprised to see Ai no Kusabi on the column, since you are a guy, but it's all good. :3
I remember trying to watch it a few years back and being absolutely baffled, but your review (and the fact that it helps explain the plot a bit) has inspired me to try again! I got a couple days to kill, anyway.
There are [some] guys who read yaoi, though from what I understand most gays are not interested in the fact that ukes are often... totally girls, you know? There are gay manga, though--it's a different genre than yaoi that most people seem not to know about. Gay manga usually feature more hunky-type guys. Bara, have you heard of it? And there are some guys who draw yaoi/BL (as in, not bara). AOI Kujou for one, and also Kisaragi Hirotaka and Sakura Haiji (all I can remember from the top of my head). I'm almost 100% sure that these three are male, and I don't think it's too much to assume that they'd be gay. Although on that note, there are evidentally a lot of straight males who draw shota (at least they claim to be straight), so who knows. I think some of it is secretly mislabeled futanari, which is another story all together. e_e; Point is, I guess I'll check out Winter Cicada, if it's really as nice as people here are saying. :3 |
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kiches
Posts: 10 |
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Nice pick for Buried Treasure, although I'd probably take Kaze to Ki no Uta over it since I found the first episode of Ai no Kusabi to drag just a little bit. Luckily I read up on the series and fansub notes before actually watching it (it didn't stop me from getting confused during certain parts though) so I was able to understand a large portion of it. I've been meaning to pick up copies of the book since they're finally releasing it in English, but after reading DMP's Only the Ring Finger Knows books 1 and 2 I've been hesitant. It might just be the title, but the way the text read in English was awkward for me, and the story started getting annoying. I also have to agree in saying the Iason's VA was fantastic in this role.
I used to read around a lot of anime forums, a few yaoi forums as well, but I always find myself leaving shortly because there are so many immature posts there, most of which aren't even understandable. The bulk of fans that frequent these forums are most likely in the 12-15 year old range, but I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of them were 20+ or in college. |
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sunflower
Posts: 1080 |
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What you say about yaoi is true, but there are gay men on the LJ community I moderate, though not a lot of them. But they are men who appreciate the romance and fantasy (and smut) of BL. But the friend of whom I spoke above had never even heard of yaoi. I was simply showing him my manga and telling him about the standards of the genre because he was surprised to learn of it. He hadn't read comics since he was a teen. He did, however, take home a sampling of my books that interested him. ^__^ |
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nightmaregenie
Posts: 167 Location: Palmy, NZ - student central |
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I guess I need to do more research...
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carbonkid
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So do/can real gays actually appreciate yaoi?
As a gay guy, yes, I can appreciate yaoi, but it's on a very, VERY surface level, and the appreciation doesn't go very far. Basically, I can appreciate seeing some guy on guy action, but only if I ignore majority, or all, of the plot and more-often-than-not (to quote Justin) underwhelming artwork. I dismiss the entire genre much more than I follow it, and even if I wanted to flip through a random title on the shelf, I can rarely even get past the cover art. Gay guys aren't the target audience, and it's hard to fake it because the characters aren't gay, or anything like it, they just seem to be going through some experimentation. I may be generalizing and jumping to conclusions, seeing as I've only read three yaoi titles, but from what I've gathered this seems to be the average plot. These fangirl fantasies aren't anything like a gay relationship, and they shouldn't be, because if a manga were to be written about an average, real gay relationship, it wouldn't be much of a fantasy, or make for a very good story. Hell, hook up to break up could be covered in one volume. |
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