Forum - View topicAre anime bootleggers supporting "hard" criminal a
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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Hi,
I know I posted something like this a week ago, but got only 1 reply. Thought I'd try one more time. 2nd times a charm? I've been looking around for info on this topic-- some hard data, or an investigative report of some sort to link to-- but have been unable to find anything. Does anyone know anything about this?? |
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space clam
Posts: 636 |
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If you posted a topic just like this recently, I won't answer here, since it may or may not be locked becuase of the aforementioned reason. I'll dredge up your old one and answer there.
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Short of going to Taiwan or Hong Kong and walking the streets, it'd be very hard to say for certain. The answer, I think, is "Yes, to some degree". But bootlegging anime is somewhat smaller than things like software piracy. I wouldn't be surprised if organized crime (Tong, Triad) receive at least SOME kickbacks from bootlegged anime, though... but in order to find out for sure, and to find out how much, it would take a good deal of detective work. Plus, some people might not like the eyes of a reporter looking in on their work. The internet can only take you so far... FWIW, does anyone know the name of any Korean crime syndicates? |
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Carol Maxwell
 Posts: 359 |
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I think they're supporting anime, even if it is bootlegged. Because they themselves must have seen it as well. Just a thought.
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Er... What? Please explain, I'm not following your train of thought at all. WHO is supporting anime? And who is watching this bootlegged anime, that still is somehow theoretically supporting anime? |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Um, no. Supporting the anime industry means that the DVD sales would be contributing financially to the studios producing anime. However, with bootlegs, the profits gained from their sale do not go back to the studios, but rather right into the pockets of those who made the bootlegs in the first place. Hence the entire concept of bootlegging and media piracy. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I can't be certain when it comes to anime, but the Taiwanese Green Gang (debatedly a Triad (the biggest one in China in the early 20th century), originally from Shanghai and once lead by Chang Kai Shek) was hugely involved in Taiwan's Bootleg industry. It is often suggested that Taiwan's copyright system was set up to give the green gang (without the green gang the KMT would never have escaped to Taiwan) a corporate outlet. I'd honestly be surprised if Ever Anime and Son May weren't in some way linked with the Greens. |
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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It's all a bit confusing. I'm totally for buying a domestic release-- it supports anime being brought to the states.
I guess, though, I'm curious in part-- how does it all work? where does my money go? where do the profits from domestic releases go?? Obviously, in part, to whoever is dubbing and packaging it.... but is there also a kickback to the Japanese companies?? I would assume American distributors and ...."dubbers" pay a certain flat fee for the privelege of marketing the item in the US... so I guess that would qualify as us supporting anime being made in Japan by buying domestic products here. If an item is more popular (i.e. more DVD's and what not are bought) do Japanese companies see the benefits of that? How? Do they receive a continuing percentage of sales? I guess, people are always saying we're supporting anime in the states by buying domestic releases, and I'm sure we are, but I just want to know how, how it works. Same goes for the bootlegs in HK and Taiwan and Singapore (pardon me, as this part is a bit of a repeat from the other thread, but I just wanted to bring it in to this discussion)-- I've heard a number of people say that one is supporting prostitution, drugs, murder, etc. by buying illegal bootlegged anime. But that's all they say!! No proof or discussion or anything. In my mind, I always sort of assumed it was being done by small time bootleggers trying to get a quick buck. It was so prevalent in HK when I lived there (for a year, in 94-95) that it just didn't seem like a big "illegal" sort of thing there. It just seemed normal. I mean, say.... take pot in the states as an example. There are a lot of small fry guys out there, and I've known a number of them personally, that are dealing it-- but ..... well, I was going to say they aren't giving any sort of kick back to major evil drug lords somewhere.... but perhaps, through a long chain of events, they are. Of course, then there are those who are growing their own stuff. Anyways, I don't want to get too off topic-- mostly, I just wanted to show another illegal activity that many people consider not to be a "hard" illegal/evil activity.... something with which to get perspective on the bootlegging situation. A way to ask-- Is this the way bootlegging anime is?? Also, how is it different from, say, burning CDs?? Is it just that it's being sold for profit?? I know that people had issue with things like free downloading on Napster, but, oddly enough, no one seems to have issue with burning a music CD on their computer and giving it to a friend. If I want to fork over 40 bucks to get a DVD package from HK, for that privelge, how is that different from burning a CD on my computer? Morally speaking. I mean, if I don't care that I'm paying-- versus the example of recieving a free burned music CD illegally from a friend of mine. Mostly, I'm not saying I'm for or against buying bootlegged anime, I simply want to understand the situation better-- morally and financially, so as to make a more educated choice. I'd love some sort of link or article on the subject..... As an aside-- From a purely moral standpoint, I wonder how many American anime companies are tied to major American corporations that some of us might have issues with? (read: moral issues, issues of business practices) Does anyone know if they are? Does that mean we shouldn't be buying domestic made products if a certain percentage of the profits are supporting major American corporations whose business practices we don't agree with?? Of course, that's speculation, as I don't know if any are tied to major American corporate conglomerations, but I would love to find out, if anyone knew a bit of the inner workings of that. I'll leave it at that for a while. Responses? |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7352 Location: Maine |
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Keep in mind that US companies are only buying the distribution rights, the license to anime, not the anime itself. I'm sure to some extent royalties are figured in as well, but as I understand it (and I don't clame to be an expert of any sort) They make a bid or an offer for the title and pay one lump sum fee for the rights which varies title to title with certain limitations as well. Regardless of how much money is actually being spent on titles, it's certainly enough to help support the japanese companies. On the bootleg side no money goes back to the studies, it goes right back into the pockets of the people making them and the people selling them. Absolutely no money or support of any kind is reflected back on the original companies. It's not just Japan either, American DVDs are also bootleged by copying the domestic discs completely. And of course companies like ADV and Bandai don't get a cent for this.
I've got a friend who lives in Singapore and he's quite adament on the fact that Singapore doesn't make bootlegs, though they deffinatly have a thriving market for selling them.
Actually I don't think it is illegal there, and if it is they don't really stand behind the law. Just about everything is bootleged in HK. This is why so many companies are hesitant to release products to the HK market, because they know they can't compete with their own products that have been bootleged. Here's a good one, Nintendo is actually releasing a new console that will only be released in China and is designed and packaged to look just like one of the hundreds of bootleg game consoles over there, sorta fighting back by playing at their own game.
Well, that doesn't really work since there is no such thing as a legal illegal drug, where there is legal anime, if that makes any sence.
I like this example better and the answer is that it is no different. Downloading music, burning CDs, and selling CD bootlegs are all illegal activities. It being common here is no different than anime bootlegs in HK being common, but that doesn't make it legal. However, I can't answer your question on how it supports crime. I'd say the only positive thing coming from the music industry on this is that they're finally noticing the effects and prices are starting to come down. That's not to say I support buying bootlegs in hopes that it will have the same effects on the anime market here, many of the distributers are small companies and wouldn't be able to contend with a further flow bootlegs.
None that I'm aware of, though I may be way off. As far as I know all US distributers are self made and self funded, the only exception probably being Bandai. The anime industry in the US is fairly self contained and only does work with outside markets for things like merchandise, advertising, and broadcasting. Emerje |
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Kyosuke-sama
 Posts: 58 Location: Ireland |
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I read an article in a UK Playstation magazine [PSW] about the bootleg trade in China. THey sighted anime as a sorce of income for drug trafficers [spelling?] until I read this I bought bootlegs 'cause the UK distributors suck when it comes to Ireland. The only anime DVDs you can get cost about 40 Euros. I have since stopped buying bootlegs and I encourage all of you not to do so either. Remember bootleg=bad!
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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Don't worry-- we all know bootlegs are bad... or atleast I do. More so after having started these threads. It's info like this article you've mentioned that is __just__ the sort of thing I'm looking for. I'm not saying everything they say is fact, but atleast there is some sort of investigative reporting going on. Do you have an issue number or the author or some such thing so that I could find/read the article??
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Kyosuke-sama
Posts: 58 Location: Ireland |
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Uh I think it was PSW # 4 with Driver 2 on the front the article was by the editor at the time Steven Pierce [i think.]
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Dilandau
 Posts: 525 Location: Tea House |
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As Emerje stated: US distributors bid for titles. Usually what they end up with is the English translation rights (the reason Anime in OZ and UK is American English), production and distibution rights of their local region. They have no attachment to the Anime in any other way. That is why you have anime, manga, posters, ti-shirts etc being made by different people, they all buy different rights to reproduce anime/manga/merchandse.
I do believe I read (perhaps AnimeNfo?) that some Japanese titles are/will be released in Japan with English Subs. It would be really expensive, but you usually get some interesting limited edition type stuff. |
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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This should help- http://www.grayzone.com/997.htm
In the legit US market, the companies bid on a title, then in many cases pay royalties back to the Japanese company after the initial aquisition. Bootleggers are fronts for the mafia. They launder their VERY illegal drug, prostitution, extortion etc etc etc money by turning it into relatively benign bootlegs. The bootlegs go out, sell fast, and the money comes back clean(and even more of it!). The link above details how they work the retail end. [/quote] |
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qollocust
 Posts: 182 Location: Philadelphia |
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While I'm not excusing bootleggers, I personally don't think so much money actually goes back to them.
Think about it, most single bootlegged DVDs from Taiwan are a little over $10 (at least that I've seen). That would probably pay for the cost of materials (disc, packaging, etc.) and whatever charges there initially were to ship it over to the states. I dunno, just something to think about..... |
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