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I'm firmly in the Rahxephon camp, and I feel it's for a very good reason - thorough storytelling.

Let me explain.

Evangelion, in my eye, has always suffered because of Anno's near-obsessive attention to visual exposition on his character's "nuances". In trying so desperately to heap layer upon layer of downright unbelievable psychosis upon his characters (calling it depth), Anno fails at telling the story of what's happening to them.

Rahxephon is much more subtle and refined in its characters, allowing their actions and (gasp) their reactions to the events in the story to display their personalities. Instead, the focus is on the story, on the events happening in this world and how they effect the characters and vice versa.

To me, the difference between Evangelion and Rahxephon is the difference between someone telling you they're sad, and seeing someone crying. Sure, you get the same information, but you don't get the same human experience.

I fall asleep during both. ;~;

So I pick any Gundam. :X

Wow, this thread just seems like trouble waiting to happen, because few series evoke more extreme reactions in comparisons than these two. But since it seems to be civil so far. . .

To address the original poster's comments, there's still an awful lot of NGE love out there, else it wouldn't keep coming up in fan polls as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) anime series ever; its place in history as one of the most influential and controversial series of the past two decades alone can't account for that. RahXephon has its rabid supporters, and many people who have seen both do prefer it over NGE, but you far less often hear its name mentioned when one talks about all-time "great" or "classic" anime series.

I think that's at least partly because NGE is more flexible in interpretation. Although it takes a long while to do so, RahXephon ultimately does reveal itself to be a love story, while what NGE is really about depends a lot on the viewer's individual perspective. Is it more about one person examining his self-worth, a teen's struggle to establish identity and cope with angst, mankind's efforts to cope with loneliness, or a bunch of really screwed up people trying to muddle their way through a difficult situation without emotional scars getting in the way? Or is it a grander statement on the flawed nature of mankind? The series uses so much symbolism and hidden and/or multilayered meaning (some of it, admittedly, just for show) that it can be about all or none of the above at the same time.

Although there are certainly comparisons to be made between the series (and anyone who does not acknowledge that NGE influenced RahXephon, or that RahXephon would not exist without NGE preceding it, is fooling themselves), I have often thought they were overstated. They differ dramatically in perhaps the single most important aspect: RahXephon is specifically about relationships between people, while NGE is specifically about the lack thereof. Because of the negative side of NGE's focus and how much of an anti-hero Shinji is (especially compared to Ayato), it has more outright and passionate detractors than RahXephon has, which may sometimes make it seem like RahXephon is a more beloved series.

Personally, I have always preferred NGE over RahXephon for a number of reasons - and yes, I did see NGE first. I have always thought RahXephon tried too hard to deliberately obfuscate things; I actually had fun trying to piece NGE together, but did not with RahXephon. While it showed certain refinements in writing and artistry, only in one episode (#19) did it ever achieve the raw, edge-of-your-seat intensity that NGE managed on several occasions. Although just as ambitious in construction, it also has always seemed less ambitious in terms of what it's trying to say.

Ryvius213 wrote:

Furthermore, Rahxephon's execution and direction are more consistent than Evangelion's. . .

Can't agree with this statement at all. Although it took me multiple viewings of the series to come to this conclusion, Anno's point and goal was the same from the beginning of the first episode to the end of the last original episode (which also required multiple viewings before I came to appreciate it). It doesn't change in the movies, either; it just becomes more intense and explicit.

Key, the point could be made that Anno's ambition got in the way of the story itself.

It's like my favorite Heinlein novel: Time Enough for Love. The construction is basically one more tale of Scheherazade, but it's a polished work that's fully realized and definitively the author's vision.

To me, Rahxephon's focus is not in a linear and clear story (because, as you said, it's a bit of a puzzle) but in its wholly realized concept.

Evangelion has never felt to have that same polish, that same focus, and that same sense of being wholly realized. It feels incomplete and hollowed out, as if something significant was lost between Anno's concept and Gainax's production offices.

I'll go out on a limb and say RahXephon feels like impresionist art while Eva feels more like expressionist art. There is something harsh about Eva which both works for and against it. When I think about Eva I think about the blaring trumpets in the background and the main characters screaming at the top of their lungs. There is something a little vulgar and powerful about Eva.

On the other side of things I think of Quan's (my favorite Houko Kuwashima) singing her soft melody and the graceful Kano/Skamoto OP song for music. The color pallet is soft and light. RahXephon is at times very graceful and beautiful.

I will say in regards of execution that Rah has more in common with Fate/Stay and Eva has more in common with Ergo Proxy than each other. Then again I like all four of these series.

I think perhaps you could say that RahXephon took what Eva pioneered and streamlined but also simplified it.

Eva had so much to it. It was a lot deeper than RahXephon. There were layers upon layers of symbolism and meaning. Many different concepts and ways of interpreting it all. At times this made it fairly convoluted. It sometimes lacked focus and for that matter explanation or an actual clear point. It was often less likable or enjoyable in the traditional senses of entertainment.

RahXephon cut through much of this. It lost much of the depth and intensity of Eva but by doing so was able to tell more of an actual story which was much more coherent and enjoyable.

I don't want to imply that this makes Eva superior. RahXephon is better if you want something more streamlined and enjoyable. Eva is better if you want something more abstract and complex but less enjoyable in the traditional sense.

I personally prefer RahXephon. I like Eva too although the ending ruins it for me where it completely abandons any notion of and actual story and dives completely into psychological analysis.

RahXephon is the better series...

Indeed, it has oft been said that RahXephon is Eva done right.

And yet, I disagree with that statement on some levels.

Just look at the Xephon - the colour scheme and aspects of its design spoiler[(eyes, face, shoulder armour, beam shields, legs, torso)] is a fairly obvious nod to Gundam. And has been mentioned already, RahXephon deals with many themes that Eva did not, and vice versa. The symbology and terminology of both series also differs. Eva famously used Judeo-Christian symbols and terminology, which RahXephon never touched on to the same degree. It preferred to focus on the Mayans instead, as well as explore interesting theories on the nature of sound.

Of course, no-one denies that RahXephon liberally used many of Eva's best ideas, and was ultimately inspired by and made possible by its predecessor. But what of Eva then? It is also no secret that many of the themes and conventions in Eva were not all that new ("teenage boy pilots giant 'robot' that his father built" wasn't even new in 1979 when it appeared in MSG). And yet, only a small minority feel that Eva was a clone of preceding series.

If Eva borrowed source material, why do we hold it against RahXephon? Both series unashamedly borrowed material from successful series, then had the smarts to add their own interpretation and repackage it all up. With the seeming lack of any completely original ideas anymore, this is what Anime must do in order to refrain from becoming stale. It is good business sense, isn't it? And a great way to pay homage to wonderful series. Imitation is still the best form of flattery.

Allow me to quote Anno himself:

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"There is no longer room for absolute originality in the field of anime, especially given that our generation was brought up on mass-produced anime. All stories and techniques inevitably bring with them a sense of déjà vu. The only avenue of expression left open to us is to produce a collage-like effect based on a sampling of existing works."

Okay then. Why do I feel that RahXephon is the better series? I always felt that Eva tried to portray one man's vision as an Anime series. Thus, it often suffered from not being very relatable from a viewer's point of view. Anno made Eva for himself, not me, so it's no surprise that I didn't get episodes 25 and 26. Also, it ran out of money, causing the screen to jitter (so much so it had its own name, which I regret to say I forget). And while whole scenes without any movement or dialogue can be construed as "artistic", it often didn't look that way. Lastly, the production crew has admitted that they made up the story largely as they went, which ultimately left too many loose ends for my tastes.

RahXephon on the other hand was carefully constructed and budgeted, with next to zero loose ends and amazing technical quality right up to the end. The characters were humans, and therefore relatable. I felt their pain, their joy. The cast of Eva wasn't very sympathetic at all, reduced to their individual problems instead of people-with-problems-to-overcome. The cast of RahXephon were not plot points, to put it one way. Finally, the symbology used in RahXephon all meant something to the series, where as Eva merely appropriated symbols to "look cool."

Anyway, I could go on, but enough. RahXephon took the best elements from Eva, and created a production that raised the bar once again.

Despite my criticisms, I love Eva dearly, and I will freely admit that it was more influential than RahXephon will ever be. However, I'd rather watch RahXephon. In my humble opinion, RahXephon is the indigo dye to Eva's indigo plant (New Years resolution was to use more Chinese proverbs in my arguments...).

SharinganEye wrote:

http://www.evaxephon.com/

That site has no credibility, if the OP felt that strongly about it his case would be strengthened if he slashed 90% of those similarities. I mean c'mon ffs "girl gets in shock at messy room".... Seriously some Eva fans need to realize less is more when it comes to things like this. I still remember when the first episode came out that this was a ripoff because it was set in the same year, pity episode 2 blew that amazing argument out of the water.

Also RahXephon originally aired in prime time, I think it was somewhere around 5.30pm-7.30pm on a Saturday. It was later moved to a late night time slot probably due to a lack of ratings.

To clarify the time it aired I'll have a look in my Animeboards thread for this from 02, which I think is one of the few remaining from when it actually aired. 400 posts long and it's a pity most it had to deal with insecure Evangelion fans.

dtm42 wrote:

Just look at the Xephon - the colour scheme and aspects of its design spoiler[(eyes, face, shoulder armour, beam shields, legs, torso)] is a fairly obvious nod to Gundam.

Actually I think the resemblance is far more striking with Raideen than with Gundam. This red chinned mecha which the pilot Fades into, has the "God Voice" and comes from the ancient Mu civilization predates Gundam. From the triangular head (whose face plate slides open) without a neck and shoulders to the visible mouth are also very much like the Raideen as are the feet. They also both have an arm blade in one hand and a bow in the other.

There are so many other sites out there with more pics of the Raideen which was like the Gundam designed by Okawara, but sadly they all have links to torrents and bootlegs. I don't know about the "focus on the Mayans" part since the RahXephon focuses on the ancient Mu race which I believe is the main race also featured in Raideen. Sorry if my memory is not accurate, but I last watched this series in 1976 although I do have a couple books and toys to help jog the memory.

@Randall Miyashiro: I'll freely admit that I got a significant (though by no means all) amount of information of both series from en.wikipedia, which has a curiously low reputation in certain regions of the net. It does mention (many times) Mayan influences in RahXephon.

However, I will concede that the RahXephon bears a not-coincidental resemblence to the Raideen. Embarrassingly enough, the Wikipedia article even mentions the connection. Oops. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

You are also right about Raideen focusing on the Mayans and the lost continent of Mu, which raises the question as to how much that influenced RahXephon and its own inclusion of the Mayans. A simple guesstimate would be a not-inconsequential amount.

@Westlo: The site in question has some credibility, though I agree it needs to be cleaned up. Sometimes it does appear as though it is stretching to find a link. Others, especially the messy room, is impossible to prove and too weak to be taken seriously.

But it does make some interesting - and plausible - connections. I never noticed what the painting actually depicted until the site pointed it out. It does have its use, that site, as lambasted as it is. Just needs a spring cleaning...

Craeyst Raygal wrote:

Evangelion has never felt to have that same polish, that same focus, and that same sense of being wholly realized. It feels incomplete and hollowed out, as if something significant was lost between Anno's concept and Gainax's production offices.

The "polish" part of that I do agree with (see the "refinement" comment in my first post), but I absolutely feel that Anno's concept was fully-realized. What the Human Instrumentality Project, which lies at the core of the series, was all about was ultimately so abstract that a conventional ending was not sufficient to resolve it. As cheap as it may have looked and as much as it may have left certain things unexplained, the last two episodes were a brilliant way to round out the concept, and everything in the series up to that point fed into it. They received so much hate because multiple viewings are usually required to fully appreciate that and because nothing even remotely similar to that had ever been tried before. They were so far outside normal lines of fan expectations that they left too many fans (including me at first) scratching their heads and going, "huh?"

I'll never deny that NGE wasn't at least partly derivative of older mecha works, either, as its basic structure of a son piloting a 'mech designed by his father is a carry-over from classic giant robot anime. I have heard the series described as a transition between the old and new in mecha series, and think that's an accurate way to put it. RahXephon went the next step by refining what NGE did and making a wholly modern production, but refinements don't always make a series better (except on a technical level) or more entertaining.

I've watched NGE many more times over the year than RahXephon because I ultimately find it the more compelling (and less infuriating) of the two despite the supposed improvements.

I saw Eva first, I like Rahxephon better. This is for a very simple reason. I don't delve much into symbolism, artful meaningness, direction etc. Eva is never explained. You can call it a strength or weakness but I felt it was incredibly cryptic and full of itself.

I equate it to something like Spiral. We hear this about the Dead Sea scrolls, the angels, the lance of longinus and a bunch of other stuff I don't remember right now. What does that have to do with anything that happens at the end? Nothing. What's actually explained? Nothing. If you're going to throw mysteries at me, I want explanations, or you get a lower mark in my book. I'm a "perfectionist" in the true sense of the word(completionist) and I just felt all the holes in Eva killed it for me.

A lot of people love that aspect about Eva. Interpreting. I just didn't care to and most likely won't. I do believe I rated it a 7/10 because it was different, spawned tons of similar mecha anime and tried to break the gundam/war mecha mold while being interesting. Neither ending held anything for me however.

Wow, I am honestly shocked things have stayed as civil as they have.

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I equate it to something like Spiral. We hear this about the Dead Sea scrolls, the angels, the lance of longinus and a bunch of other stuff I don't remember right now. What does that have to do with anything that happens at the end? Nothing. What's actually explained? Nothing. If you're going to throw mysteries at me, I want explanations, or you get a lower mark in my book. I'm a "perfectionist" in the true sense of the word(completionist) and I just felt all the holes in Eva killed it for me.

I thought that the movie ended it for me. Same with Rahxephon. And a lot of those holes have to be put together by the viewer, they're never explained in plain view.

As far as the animation complaint many have, I don't know how you can hold that as a reason for one being better than the other, Rah was made seven years after Eva, look at any two anime with that big of a gap and you'll see a clear animation difference.

Either way this is cool, seems to me that people either appreciate Eva for what makes it different or those are the things that you don't like about it. Either way I'm glad to see people still showing Eva love.

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And a lot of those holes have to be put together by the viewer, they're never explained in plain view.

I'd argue a lot of things are never explained whatsoever and entirely rest upon the viewer to go "hmm, I wonder how that went". Again, that's not something I like or do so Eva got a strike.

And if anyone has an animation complaint they may mean a lot more than just its age. How long do I have to stare at a street with nothing but a super far away shot of Shinji walking around as the only movement?

Honestly if RahXephon was from the same era as Evangelion it's animation would be the equivalent of The Vision of Escaflowne, which was superior to Eva.

Anyway here is what time RahXephon was first airing at

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From Animaxis

•Region: Japan
•Category: Anime
•Date: March 15, 2002

Yutaka Debuchi's first production, "RAHXEPHON" DVD Release

"RAHXEPHON", broadcast on Fuji-TV affiliated stations every Monday at 16:25 from this Jan 21 will be released on DVD on May 31st. This is the first production by Yutaka Debuchi, famous for the mechanical design of "Mobile Police Patlabor" and "Mobile Suit Gundam - Char's Counterattack". The character design is by Akihiro Yamada, the mechanical design by Yoshinori Sayama.

I than later post in that thread

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It's moved to 1:45am Tuesday

Wiki says

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Starting with episode 10, some stations moved the series from the afternoon to after midnight, but other stations moved it from late night to afternoon

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