Forum - View topicBootlegs vs. Fansubs.
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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It's easier to reference something I posted awhile back:
I still stand behind my statement. As long as I buy the stuff that I've made the commitment to buy based on my reasoning above, it can not logically affect the U.S. industry in anyway. If all people did as I do, (not that they would) there would never be an issue. As far as the instant gratification goes, there are some things worth waiting for. Anime (in my book) doesn't. It isn't in and of itself a quality object that will truly enrich my life anymore by waiting for it. There are things waiting for... time spent with friends that you can't get again, family events where you enjoy the company of those you've known all your life. Getting married, having children... working on something meaningful that can really mean something to others. A career where you truly enjoy what you are doing, or making a difference in other's people's lives. That's quality stuff that shouldn't be cheapened by instant gratification. Anime? Sure, I enjoy it. I enjoy talking about it with my friends, watching it together. But that's different than downloading a fansub then, isn't it? Just some food for thought from me. |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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I buy alot of Manga thu. Scantranslations suck there to much of a pain in the ass to read thu i did read Berserk via scantran and am currently buying the Darkhorse Releases its just simply to good to not buy. |
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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And if everyone behaved as you do, it wouldn't be nearly the issue it's become. The problem is that there are hordes of people out there with 100GB HDs full of fansubs and rips of domestic DVDs. Someone like you or I is not the problem, it's the ones that DON'T. Frankly one step I'd really love to see is a commitment of fansubbers to move to using DVDSubber or OGG subs or something, and set an limit on the quality of the encode. Let it be watchable, but don't strive for the kind of quality that makes it something you really want to keep.. |
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cyrax777
Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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I would would put it at a rough guess (read pulled out of thin air) that about less then 10% of anime fans in general get fansubs on a regular basis (say about once a week or so) and thats probly a very liberal guestimate becouse alot of the people I know are very hardcore fans. Its probly more closer to 5% or so since im sure the main bulk of fandom is getting there fix from what local stores have such as Suncoast,Bestbuy and other buisness. |
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Scaramanga
Posts: 134 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I don't know about fansub viewers as being the minority in the anime watching community. Just a look at the seed/client ratios on a given bittorrent server when a new episode is subbed. And that's just bittorrent... fansubs are being distributed everywhere... Newsgroups, Kazaa (and the myriad other p2p networks), you name it. Maybe your average CN viewer isn't aware of fansubs (and even then I'm skeptical of that,) but I think the large majority of them are. Heck all it takes is reading one of these anime forums to find out about fansubs. Do I buy all the series I watch fansubbed? Hell no, some of them are absolute pap. But I do buy quite a LOT of anime, based on what I've seen fansubbed.
On a different note, here's something I've been hearing more and more about recently: local anime/import shops carrying bootleg products. And I've just discovered a shop in my area is doing this now as well. Look when you can buy an entire series on just 3 discs for $20, that SHOULD send up some warning flags. I understand it's hard for independant shop owners to compete with the likes of BestBuy and SunCoast, but won't this just end up being bad for business in the long run? |
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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I'd say that the only thing stopping most hardcore fans (who buy 60-80% of the product) from downloading fansubs is a lack of broadband.
And yes it's true that tons and tons of comic shops are selling boots, and the numbers are growing every day. There's only one or two, thankfully the biggest/oldest/most respectable shop in Philly that DOESN'T have SM CDs or boots in some form |
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Fenrir
 Posts: 369 |
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Tekkaman Blade is currently only available in it's original form and complete bootlegged or fansubed. The HK boots actually have descent subs as I got rips of them online rather than support the HK bastards. There is a japanese dialogue Vampire Hunter D however the original Language track is english and there is a subbed version of the street fighter 2 movies avaialble on the dvds.
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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Street Fighter 2: Movie does not have a subbed version. If it did, I'd have it.
The Japanese disc is only 2500 yen though, and there is a DVDSubber script for it. Urban Vision is supposed to be putting out a new version of Bloodlust that will contain a J track though, even though it should not be listened to as it is not the original spoken language |
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Scaramanga
Posts: 134 Location: San Diego, CA |
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There you have it Tony. Also you can google for AMO Tokyo, for R2 discs (yeah the majority are Japanese, but some are dubbed/subbed as well.)
As for the broadband issues... that's rapidly changing. I personally have cable 'net access at home, and I can't understand how people can live with dial-up after that. A show of hands of people with (or without) broadband would be interesting. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Putting moral and legal issues aside, there's one thing about fansubs which is much better than licenced releases: if fansubbers do their job well, they'd add tri-subs (English, Kanji/Kana, and Romaji) all at the same time, with karaoke effects during OP/ED, thus I can learn Japanese (and sing along
 ) from it. And if those fansubbers do their homework REALLY well, they'd add notes and external links for those which are difficult to translate and/or require more background info to understand fully. A good example is Gunslinger Girl; when I saw the link for more info about weapons those girls using I was astonished -- that is my favorite site for weaponry as well (I'm a military freak as well as an ACG fan). Moreover, they added a link to the Italian museum where the story took place. This was very touching and established a mutual link between me and those dedicated fansubber whom I don't know.  I've never seen a DVD release has so much info and dedication.
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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AnimEigo's been doing it for over a decade. I'll admit it's a shame more companies don't folllow their example I think their liner notes for Macross were something on the order of 40 pages all told. |
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Zwieghinder
Posts: 2 |
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Hi all
well so far i have seen only one honest person in this post. Fansubs = cost effective way to watch anime. 30 bucks per dvd dont cut it for me, I'd rather invest it for another HD. |
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Inu-Yasha
 Posts: 373 Location: Quad Cities, Iowa |
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I got a snail er I mean a slow 56k dial up modem. I hate it when I get disconnected when I'm reading a thread. I prefer having in this world fansubs and fandubs compared to bootlegs. I think there would be less of the bootlegs if there was more anime was licensed and mass produced compared to having it not licensed or limited/out-of-print releases...
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Legato 2057
 Posts: 437 Location: Soon to be Japan |
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Sorry, that is just not a valid arguement. Can you honestly say that you have seen every anime at your local Suncoast or Best Buy? That you have ordered everything off of AnimeNation or RightStruf? Or even rented everything off of Netflix (or whatever else is outhere)? |
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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First, I'd like to know more about this "DVD subber" file and how it works. Do you just get the script on a print out? Or does it somehow put it on the actual screen you are watching it on??
Anyways, this thread really reminds me of this other thread that was just up a couple of weeks ago-- "Bootlegs... what is wrong with them?" animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5485 A great thread, but each post was like getting a red hot poker shoved into your eye-- very aggressive. Basically, very judgemental against fansubs and bootlegs with almost no moral "grey area" in the discussion. If you're interested in the legality of fansubs or of watching shows "en masse" (like at a club), or of better understanding the morality of getting fansubs and bootlegs for free versus paying, it's a cool discussion. Brining over a couple of points from the other thread to this one-- 1) Legality and guilt-- I don't see why something being illegal has to mean one should feel guilty about it. I disagree with the law on a number of things, and I see nothing bad with fansubs, in that vein. IF, and this is an IF, in my opinion, IF you are only watching fansubs for shows that aren't liscened, then kudos to you for being a responsible shopper. That's what I think anyways. Why waste your money buying shows you don't even know if you like yet? I don't do it for movies and I don't do it for shows like the Sopranos or Sex in the City. I watch them first. And so with anime-- either through fansubs or through renting. As was posted earlier, if I watch a show fansubbed (or rent it, if its available in the states) and decide I don't want to buy it, then I havn't taken away any business or sales from the distributers of the show. Atleast that's how I still see it. 2) One reason for buying *good* liscened products-- Some people do hoard their fansubs and don't support those companies that are shelling out money to bring us good products like the Cowboy Bebop or Totoro dubs, or the great Macross subtitles by Animeigo with their great liner notes, or the liner notes for Kenshin, or the very good subtitles for Berserk, etc. etc. All I can say is that, it seems to me, products that are excellent ought to be supported with a fan's dinero, I think. That means more of those good products will be made. I don't want to be judgemental or anything, to each there own, but.... for those shows one really likes... well, somone out there in the states is putting money towards bringing you a product that you like. Companies like that go under if you don't buy their product. If they go under, then you don't get any future high quality products from them-- like say, the Bebop dub or the Berserk or Macross subtitles. That's the best reasoning I can think of to buy legal, liscenced titles. 3) I do think there are a number of situations where one might buy a bootleg-- generally, when a show is not released in the states, and seems to be impossible to find fansubbed (on DVD, for me)-- say, Angel's Egg, Macross Zero, Macross-- DYRL movie, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Space Battleship Yamato, etc. Now, I know these aren't subtitled on the R2's, so I figure the only way to really watch these with any ease is with a bootleg. This is, of course, unless this DVD subber program is really good, and I therefore change my mind. 4) Bootlegs and possible crime syndicate ties-- Finally, on the note of bootlegs, I think the real reason one might not want to buy them, morally speaking, is that you might/probably are supporting crime syndicates in asia. There is no hard proof re: anime bootlegs specifically, but here's a thread on the subject-- "Are anime bootleggers supporting "hard" criminal a" animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4929&highlight= Basically, bootlegs, in general, DO support crime syndicates, who filter and "clean" their money through sales of bootleg DVDs-- now, whether or not Anime Studio or Mac or FX (different bootleg companies) are doing so... I dunno. But, hey, I figure many other bootlegs (live action Hollywood films, for example) do support crime syndicates, and therefore.... I just think twice before buying and possibly supporting something like prostitution, drug running, etc. Does that mean I never buy a bootleg? No. Frankly. I shell out for the products being offered by bootleggers that I find impossible to find other ways. And one very good way is simply to get an online rental subscription to Netflix or Greencine. For 20$ a month (which even a lot of college students can afford... even I could, about 7-8 years ago), you can watch a b*ttload of a lot of anime through online rental companies. This is a really good way to watch a lot of stuff cheap and not have to buy it-- just the way one would do if you were watching a bunch of movies. 5) Continued conversation is good....-- Finally, Legato-- you said "No offense to everybody involved in this thread, but can't we just drop the subect already. Everybody has already stated their stance on the subject. Now this thread has simply become a battle between posters trying to prove their point to each other when both sides have already made up their mind." Well, yeah, of course people have their own opinions. But just because a lot of us are opinionated doesn't mean useful stuff doesn't come out the discussions. I've definitely changed some of my opinions through some of the threads I've read here at ANN, on subjects like bootlegs and fansubbing and the legality and morality of it all, etc. So, yeah, I think the continuing of the conversation is always worthwhile, as long as people stay open and keep asking questions. Say, like... what is this DVD subber program again? |
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