Forum - View topicAnime VS Mainstream
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Hagakure
Posts: 111 Location: Connecticut |
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Is it just me, or is anime at odds with the mainstream? I mean, in the views of alot of people, I'm a geek cause I watch anime. I practically live on this message board, I watch anime and play video games, I about as "geeky" as they come. I feel bad pointing fingers at all those people who watch MTV religiously or pop in thier NSYNC CD first thing when they get home, because I don't like attacking other people's interests. What bothers me is how some of these people attack others for their interests, in this instance, anime. Now I couldn't care less what other people think, cause I'm and outcast and I'm damn proud of it. What I am concerned about is the people being forced to bury thier individualsm because of some stupid social order of "geeks" and "mainstream" that the can't even be held responsible for. I believe it was Viscious who brought up the topic of "In the closet anime fans." I have alot of friends like this, who feel pressured not to like something they really enjoy cause others say it's "geeky."
That's more than a little immature. Just an observation, with no scathing comments implied towards anyone. What do you guys think? |
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Slim Shinji
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 263 |
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I think by definition a "geek" is someone who's heavily into anything, be it anime, or a particular band, or the Osbournes, or whatever (with the exception of sports....cause might makes right
 ). Actually being into anime a little bit is considered pretty hep where I'm from.
But in this techno-happy internet age, where anyone's hobbies can easily be taken to extreme levels, "geeks" are becoming more and more common, to the point where it's really no longer an insult...everyone's a geek for something these days. A friend of mine says a "geek" is someone who is self-aware, realizes he's outside the mainstream and freely admits it...a "dork" is someone who doesn't have a clue. My cubicle at work is littered with Evangelion action figures and Cowboy Bebop posters. Most of my co-workers admittedly think it's a little weird, but kinda cool at the same time. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15328 |
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Well Spiderman's immense success proved there's a potential audience for comics. Now hopefully the Bebop movie and Millenium Actress get decent theatrical distribution so that maybe it can be proven that there's an audience for mature animation. Dreamworks is already working on a movie about a bunch of gangster sharks, and Sony is releasing some Adam Sandler animated movie called Eight Crazy Nights which is PG 13; and theyre trying to sell it to a PG 13 crowd. So adds to the possibility that animation will be taken more seriously. Nonetheless, I'm still gonna laugh at those losers who line up for Star Wars a month in advance. "WHAT?! NO matinee, and the movie has Jar Jar as a SENATOR?! Lucas, why hath thou forsaken me?!"
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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...AAAANNND steering the conversation AWAY from pre-Ep II sensationalism... In my opinion, anime is only as nerdy as you make it. I'm sure all of you have other things to occupy your time. Books, music, movies, athletics, games, your career, what-have-you. Anime really shouldn't be everything in your life. Personally, I can't stand being around people who dress in anime-decorated clothes, quote characters' lines, talk about their VAST VAST collection of miscellanious anime trivialities, who have MEMORIZED and sing various songs from various terrible Jpop artists, and feel extra-special because of all above said things, and who think that people like me, who blatantly tell them to "get a life, loser", are the great Satan. |
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Hagakure
Posts: 111 Location: Connecticut |
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Thank you! I'd rather not get into that.
I guess I could somewhat see your point here, but I think the same can be said of the people who religiously recite The Rock's lines from WWF, or know every line of their mainstream band's music. If anything completely occupies your life, then it is bound to be awkward. I really don't see the harm in screaming out anime character's lines anymore than the vast groups of society who walk into the bank and say "Finaly... John Doe has come back, to the bank!" and expect an applause. If not, than doing that makes you look more stupid. I guess my point is that people should just respect other people's right to choose, and accept the fact that some people choose to religiously recite different lines. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Well . . . I'd argue that someone could have all the above characteristics and still not have anime absorb their lives, while maintaining "normal" lives. I, of course, speak from personal experience. I quote characters, talk about anime all the time, sing anime songs, cosplay at conventions, accuse dubs of being Satan-- with my anime-fan friends. I'm able to maintain an equilibrium though, and act "normally" around my non-anime friends, and do other stuff non-anime related. At the same time, I can still call myself an Otaku, because I believe that I spend enough time and mind power on things-anime-related to qualify me as a house-bound-geek. What it all comes down to is, I think, whether or not one can be a geek and equalize that with enough "normal" stuff to balance one out and stay a functioning member of regular society. Bouncing off Hagakure's comment though, it is a little distressing that anime fans would be singled out as geeks, whereas Britney fanatics could almost fit into society (key word: almost). It's interesting to note, though, that every time anime is shown on TV, or is even a little bit promoted to the general public, many anime fans start screaming originality rape and whining that anime is "going mainstream and it's no longer original" or what not. It seems to me that many anime fans are turning the whole thing into a Catch 22. If anime isn't accepted in society, we're slighted because we're seen as outcasts; if it is accepted, we're slighted because we're no longer "individual," and society doesn't "understand the artistic value behind anime" (which we tried to promote when anime wasn't popular). What can you do? Last comment (to LordByronius): What's the quote in your signature from? Or did you just make it up? I like it. |
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Hagakure
Posts: 111 Location: Connecticut |
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I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm simply saying that there is a major respect issue between all the mainstream types and ANYTHING different, and I think that it is corrupting other people's right to behave as they please without prosecution. I really don't care if people don't like that I walk around with a shirt that says "Zeonic Warriors" on the back with a giant Gouf suit. I just feel that others aren't allowed to do the same for whatever thing it is that they enjoy because they aren't as tolerant to other's opinions.
Distressing, but not unexpected. Many people feel obligated to follow the group. So much of our society is based on group mentality.
I hadn't thought of that, but it is really true. Myself, personally, am slighted by being an outcast. I'm merely afraid that others aren't being allowed to freely express their opinions. I belive there is an editorial on ANN about the problem of a lack of medium between individual and broadly distributed. This is a very good point you made! |
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4471 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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When it comes to anime, I find there are mostly three kinds of people: 1) people into anime, 2) people not into anime but who don't think negatively of people who are, and 3) people who are completely unaware of Japanese animation aside from maybe Pokemon and are blissfully unaware that there is a small niche market in North America for the stuff. I've never found many people that antagonize anime fans just for liking anime; they tend to antagonize anime fans who let their enthusiasm for Japanese animation be publicly known because those fans (myself not excluded) tend to act like geeks and play-up a lot of the geekdom stereotypes. But being a geek isn't even really a negative thing anymore; sites like Ain't It Cool News openly and proudly promote themselves as being for geeks. And what does it matter if the people who think themselves "cool" don't like us? Once you're out of high school, what is "cool" good for anyway?
As for the popularity of anime in general, as far as I'm concerned, where anime is at right now (a few hundred thousand die-hard enthusiasts and maybe another million occassional fans, mostly from other branches of fandom/geekdom, in the United States and Canada), is about ideal; there's enough of a market for the economics of scale to kick in and keep the price of anime DVDs comparable to mainstream movies on DVD, but anime isn't popular enough for there to be all that much of a backlash (religious or secular) against speciality cable channels that carry the shows, nor do we have to put up with sarcstic comments about anime fans from the most popular comedians, Cowboy Bebop and Tenchi Muyo parodies in magazines like Mad and Cracked, and Goth Talk-like Saturday Night Live sketches with Chris Kattan and Horatio Sanz as hosts of a public access cable show that never leave their parents' basement except to make weekly trips to the comic book store to stock up on "essential supplies" (anime, manga, t-shirts and mecha kits). |
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GATSU
Posts: 15328 |
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Byron:
"Personally, I can't stand being around people who dress in anime-decorated clothes," I'm ok with it. I just don't like people who act like experts when all they saw was Sailor Moon and DBZ. "talk about their VAST VAST collection of miscellanious anime trivialities," That is kind of lame... "who have MEMORIZED and sing various songs from various terrible Jpop artists," Since I try to memorize the songs from Go Nagai anime, I can't entirely agree with ya there. :wink: "and who think that people like me, who blatantly tell them to "get a life, loser", are the great Satan." You have a point. Just cus I like anime-including Otaku No Video-doesn't mean I wanna live like the guys in it. "or know every line of their mainstream band's music." I don't mind if you know every line to a song, as long as you don't try to do a crappy cover of a classic song in order to make it in the music industry. "I really don't see the harm in screaming out anime character's lines anymore than the vast groups of society who walk into the bank and say "Finaly... John Doe has come back, to the bank!" and expect an applause." Well nothing's worse than a middle-aged person who's trying to keep up with the trendiest in pop culture. Actually, the only thing worse is all these anime fans who act like they're special because they download all the newest anime off the net, and complain about the animation of old-school titles like Lupin or Mazinger which I happen to like. "I'm able to maintain an equilibrium though, and act "normally" around my non-anime friends," Yeah, when you try to force anime onto non-fans, they'll just make fun of you even more. "it is a little distressing that anime fans would be singled out as geeks, whereas Britney fanatics could almost fit into society (key word: almost)." Jailbait always wins over fat hairy nerds. "It's interesting to note, though, that every time anime is shown on TV, or is even a little bit promoted to the general public, many anime fans start screaming originality rape and whining that anime is "going mainstream and it's no longer original" or what not." I think what people need to realize is that anime is actually fairly generic in Japan, just like music from people like Britney Spears is the norm over here. Artists like Kia Asamiya are moving over here, because they complain about not having any freedom when they write. And it is true to a certain extent, because you have to either: 1)Use fanservice to appeal to older Japanese males, 2)Use violence to appeal to younger males or 3)Insert bishounen to appeal to women. Not that those things are bad, but after a while, it does stifle the creativity of anime. That's why people are so desparate, that if a giant robot show goes a slightly different route by throwing in vague religious references, then they automatically heap praises on it. "And what does it matter if the people who think themselves "cool" don't like us? Once you're out of high school, what is "cool" good for anyway?" Apparently more than the money I paid for my college education, because that sure as hell hasn't taught me anything practical. "Cowboy Bebop and Tenchi Muyo parodies in magazines like Mad and Cracked," MAD had parodies?! "and Goth Talk-like Saturday Night Live sketches with Chris Kattan and Horatio Sanz as hosts of a public access cable show that never leave their parents' basement except to make weekly trips to the comic book store to stock up on "essential supplies" (anime, manga, t-shirts and mecha kits)." Ah well, we get sweet revenge when their movies bomb. Get Corky my a**! |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4471 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Yeah, I know what you mean... I enjoyed reading Mad in my late tweens and early teens, from about 1985 to 1990, but these days I find it supremely lame, partly just because I outgrew it, and partly because the magazine has really gone downhill since William Gaines died. I still leaf through it occasionally at the dépanneur (Quebec speak for "convenience store"). Recently, they did an alleged parody of the Royal Tenenbaums, my favourite movie of the last little while. Had it been a good parody, I might have purchased the issue. But half the jokes were just about what other movies the actors appeared in. It occurred to me I could write a much more scathing parody, and I love the film. I'd love it if they did do a great Tenchi Muyo review, but I get the idea that if they ever did, it would mostly be extraneous jokes about how it comes from the same country that brought you Pokemon, the Power Rangers, Tamagotchi, Cup Noodles and Iron Chef. |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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SakeChan: My sig's taken from one of the many hidden pages at the Bitter Films website. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!! Pity, though, I had to leave out the line "my testicles are fully descended." Not enough room. ;P
Personally I think the whole Geekdom issue works like this: Take, for example, Star Wars. It's definitely not the greatest movie franchise of all time. The last two films have been pretty substandard, let us admit. Hell, the franchise was practically dormant for nearly a decade. Yet it has the most voracious, devoted, loud, and adoring fanbase in the world. If you ask any Star Wars fan whether SW beats out, say, Citizen Kane or The Godfather, they'd most likely vote for either of the latter two. (Or, at least they should.) Why, then, aren't the same people petitioning for the original trilogy on DVD, or are manually editing out scenes of Jar Jar, showing the same sort of enthusiasm for something else that is widely considered far superior? It's sort of like alcohol, I think. After a few Heiny's I'd say that Jeneane Gerafalo is lookin' mighty sexy. Through the rose-tinted goggles of Geekdom, something like Star Wars or Star Trek or Masters of the Universe is instantly elevated to a cinematic masterpiece. (I was kidding about the Masters of the Universe thing. Really. Although the midgets are pretty cool...) [/stupid, baseless BS] |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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Oh, while I'm still here, I thought I'd just dole out specific yet anonymous examples of certain fans whose tastes and attitudes just baffle the crap outta me.
Weiss Kreuz fans. I mean, I can see liking the show in that "ha ha, holy crap this is the worst show ever" state of mind, but, Jesus, I know girls who take the damn thing VERY VERY seriously. Like fanfiction, scods of fanart, buying all their concert CDs and DVDs and ARTBOOKS (How'd that show get an artbook anyhow? There're only an average of 29 cels per episode...) Cripes, Weiss rivals Mad Bull 34 for sheer terribleness. Yet if I were to start collecting cels from Mad Bull and writing crossover fanfics where Sleepy becomes one of the immortals in Highlander, everybody'd think I'm freaking nuts. |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4471 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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You'll probably get a kick out of this article, which appeared Thursday on X-Entertainment.com. X-E's "Matt" hung around outside the premiere of the new Richard Gere movie Unfaithful, and shouted non-publcist approved questions to celebrities (similar schtick to Howard Stern's Stuttering John). One of the celebrities there was Frank Langella, so Matt asked him questions like:" OH MY GOD, YOU PLAYED SKELETOR IN THE LIVE-ACTION HE-MAN MOVIE!" "Who kissed better, Whoopi Goldberg or Evil Lyn?" "SAY SOMETHING IN YOUR SKELETOR VOICE!" (Of course, he was also the detective in the lame-ass Eddie Furlong slasher horror franchise wannabe Brainscan, a film only notable to me because a handful of scenes were shot at my high school, Macdonald High in Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, though I was already a year out of high school when they shot it (summer 1993).) The thing I always found amusing about the live-action He-Man was Tom Paris's hair; I guess his father, Admiral Paris, made him cut it so Tom wouldn't make him look bad at Starfleet photo ops. |
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Ataru
 Posts: 2306 Location: Missouri (Strikeman) |
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Ever since I joined the Army, the most common ref. to anime from people who are have never heard of it is cartoon. How did I fix that is that I put a sign over my mass collection of DVDs and VHS that reads "If you call it cartoons, it'll be 25 pushups, 25 setups." and in nice big letters at the bottom "IT'S CALLED ANIME/JAPANIMATION." Sadly, I still get called "The Cartoon Man" at work.
Atleast I have a couple of fellow anime fans that can understand my pain. *L*
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Tenchi
Posts: 4471 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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I just bought my tickets off MovieTickets.com . At the Montreal Paramount on Thursday the 11th, there are matinees listed, but no 12:01 a.m. showings like last time (though it didn't play at our Paramount last time), at least not listed yet. But I have a class from 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. that day, so I had to settle for the 7 p.m. showing. |
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