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I was watching Godannar on The Anime Network Online, and I didn't think the series was that bad. One of the problems I had with it, however, was the large amount of fan service, (big breasts, nudity, sexual content Shocked

). I have seen many anime that feature fan service, but this series brought it to ridiculous level, and I know there are even worse offenders. The word, "fan service," implies that this content serves the fans, but how exactly do jiggle physics and panty shots serve us. I know not all fan service is created equal; it may be used for comedy, to spice up a scene, or could just be used to grab the attention of the audience, but there are other ways of doing this. Should fan service be thrown out completely, should it just be taken down a level, or should it be left alone for the anime's benefit? What do you think?

Well sure it should be taken down a level, but there are many other individuals to vouch for it's importance in anime; in contrary to your opinion. I feel that it doesn't really serve that much of a purpose, and could be taken out completly without leaving behind any detrimental issues.

BUt there's not much of a chance of that happening.

Well thats kind of a weird question to ask... thats like asking if Football (soccer) is necessary if you don't like/play it... to you it may not seem necessary but to others it is, if you really think about it, that type of a question is weird to answer since there isn't one definit answer. This is becuase if you ask someone who doens't want it, then they'll say no most of the time, but if you ask someone who watches anime just for that, or feels it is necessary to the shows plotline, then they'll say yes... so it really just depends. There really isn't one straight answer to that question (as there aren't to most questions) but especially this one.... I think that fan service and anime sort of tie together, although i don't like the idea, to the people who really watch anime for the fan service (i'm assuming there are people like this, i'm not all to sure though) for them, it defines anime. It creates one of the differences between cartoons and anime (except for ones from japan yes yes i know) one with fan service and one with out it... there are other thigns that define anime, but i do believe that is one of them (for only certian types of anime though)...

i'm not all to sure if this opinion is fluent , but its what came to mind...

-Elfen12-

In my opinion, fanservice should be removed from anime as quickly as possible, for it is nought but a blight upon our enjoyment of an otherwise amazing medium. You really can't appreciate Ghost in the Shell: SAC as much when you start noticing all the butt and cleavage shots of Kusanagi they shove in your face. I can accept that she likes to dress provocatively (as some people are wont to do), but that's just taking the p***. And as much as I couldn't already appreciate The Wallflower, the second opening sequence is the most horrendous exercise in fangirlservice. What ever happened to artistry? What ever happened to creativity? Nowadays rather than producing quality shows that have intriguing plots and 3D characters, they seem to think that if they just recreate another series, give it a lick of paint, and add fanservice in, they've created a masterpiece (a.ka. Gurren Lagann). What's even worse than this is that lots of people fall for it and couldn't care less that what they're watching is utter crap. Abolish fanservice I say and remove all those series that would champion its use, and lets see a return to more complex and artistic anime (the best of which being Boogiepop Phantom).

Of course fanservice is only one problem that anime has. Don't even get me started on poor plot devices and Code Geass (grrrr)....

Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:50 pm; edited 2 times in total

Godannar was a terrible series, actually. There was absolutely nothing redeeming about it, just a huge pile of garbage. The fanservice was the entire point of the show, otherwise it'd have been even worse. And even then, zomg hueg boobs that don't show anything, on top of a worthless show, I might as well go watch a well done hentai.

Sometimes fanservice can be awesome, like in Kanokon, and other times it's used to try and make a bad storyline'd show at least somewhat okay to look at.

Anyway, fanservice is not created in the mind to serve we, the western fans, it's made to please the loser otaku college dropouts who work lowly positions in companies so they can have money to buy these dvds. They'll never have contact with a real woman, so the fanservice helps them feel better. The faster western fans realize most Japanese fans are like this, the better it will be for all of us. Very very few anime are ever about the art or story anymore, they're only created so they can please this or that crowd.

Fear Ghoul, we all know anime has been dead for a long time, get over it. That's exactly why we only see mostly dumb series anymore, because they know it will sell, something like Strike Witches. Let's see, guns, mech influence, little girls, no pants, fighting, etc. Holy crap, we have a winner for the disgusting otaku to eat up. They'll buy this more than they'll buy something like Kaiba or Allison & Lillia. Same thing goes with other types of fanservice, like mecha. Just make a new Gundam series, doesn't matter what the plot is, as long as the Gundams are invulnerable, run on pixie dust, and look like the Gundams of old. The Gundam fans will love it. When they tried something new, like with Turn A Gundam, it wasn't as well accepted, even though in the west it is. And despite what companies may say of the value of western consumers, they must please their own people first.

gaminganimator wrote:

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The word, "fan service," implies that this content serves the fans, but how exactly do jiggle physics and panty shots serve us....Should fan service be thrown out completely, should it just be taken down a level, or should it be left alone for the anime's benefit?

For as much as a few individual posters bitterly complained about how 'Moe' was constantly 'under attack' in the recent 'How do you feel..' thread, I see this sort of prudish posturing attacking 'traditional' male-oriented fan-service exponentially more often.

My answer to your question is the same as all the other times this question gets put forward. The vast majority of *all* anime is made up of one type of 'sweet-tooth/fan-service' element or another. Over the last several years 'Moe'/emotional/melodramatic themes have replaced the older 'physical ecchi' style, and attracted a fan base that (largely) doesn't like T&A antics. However, quivering melodrama contains nothing that makes it inherently 'better' than risque comedy and jiggling heroines. Anime has not become more 'mature', it merely has a fanbase that increasingly has difficulty understanding the difference between what tickles their personal entertainment fancy and objective quality. Anime has not gained in accurate gender/sexuality depictions, the same folks who carp about wayward bosoms often flock to entertainment that simply replaces overt physicality with an emotional model; or you'll get the folks who will complain about 'exploitation' while simultaneously professing their love of 'BL', a genre with decidedly 'un-progressive' views of homosexuality.

If a person wants stoutly intellectual depictions of stories, then anime is the wrong place to be in the first place. Talking about a show like 'Godannar' and complaining that the ribald sexuality lessened it is like bemoaning how too many people have no appreciate for 'real art', and then going on about your Thomas Kinkade collection.

The use of fanservice is not only restricted to the anime world. Hollywood along with other countries around the world use "fanservice" in their projects. Even television here and around the world has excessive nudity and suggestive themes. When NYPD Blue was airing in the states, it was really the first US show on network tv to show partial nudity. This was one of the draws that brought it so many viewers. Not the only one of course, but still, the whole "wow factor" of what was shown brought new viewers along.

So, those who say that fanservice should not be in anime ought to look at the other media that catches their eyes. There are countless movies and television shows that have young ladies in the shower, or in bikinis, or half to fully naked. Of course there are some films and shows that have the same thing, but with men as well. Naturally these types of scenes have little to nothing to do with the plot or character development, but that is what "fanservice" is. It is the icing on the cake to some.

Now I for one am not a very big fan of fanservice and really wouldn't care if it was present or not. But at the same time I am not the type to say that an anime would have been great if not for all the fanservice. If it really bothers you, then perhaps you should be more selective in the titles you watch or just stop watching anime all together. Because for the most part, fanservice is a staple of anime. It has been present in anime almost as long as anime has been around.

Do I think anime will one day turn away from fanservice? No. This is because live-action films and television won't turn away from it. As long as actresses like Angelina Jolie run around half nekkid in films, then anime will have it too.

In closing to the origional question, of course fanservice is not necessary. But so are million dollar special effects, top dollar actors and actresses, and so on an so forth not necessary. But it is those elements that make money. And it is money that is necessary. So as long as film, anime, an other forms of meida have a budget; then yes, to a small degree fanservice is necessary I suppose.

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So, those who say that fanservice should not be in anime ought to look at the other media that catches their eyes. There are countless movies and television shows that have young ladies in the shower, or in bikinis, or half to fully naked. Of course there are some films and shows that have the same thing, but with men as well. Naturally these types of scenes have little to nothing to do with the plot or character development, but that is what "fanservice" is.

I actually do criticize live action for its use of fanservice the same way I do for anime.

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Because for the most part, fanservice is a staple of anime. It has been present in anime almost as long as anime has been around.

Just because something used to be a certain way, doesn't mean that something should always be that way. The origins of anime may be steeped in fanservice or not, but I would think that after many decades anime could actually outgrow such flawed beginnings, because change is an ever present force.

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But so are million dollar special effects

Special effects are pretty necessary for The Lord of the Rings...

Outgrow? Anime isn't a group of independent artists trying to express their feelings, it's a bunch of business men discussing what would make the most money. Sex sells, things people continually like sells, and so it will continue. You apparently don't have any idea what the anime industry is like, do you? It's mostly copypaste copypaste copypaste, and sometimes a rare gem is produced. Simply, get used to fanservice of all types, it'll remain long after you're a fan.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Fanservice is a part of anime just as paying for gas is a part of owning a car. You say that during the times anime should change?......Why? Why should it? It's working the way it is. Do you honestly think that the studios give a flying hoot what you or a few others think about the existance of fanservice? Remember this, anime is created for the Japanese fan first, Westerners come later. And in Japan, fanservice works well for the fans.

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Anime isn't a group of independent artists trying to express their feelings, it's a bunch of business men discussing what would make the most money. Sex sells, things people continually like sells, and so it will continue.

And that's at the heart of the problem. It's not about artistry first and money second, instead its the other way around. Plenty of anime manage to balance off these two competing factors, but the remaining 80% just goes for the latter as an easy opt out that results in sh** anime.

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You apparently don't have any idea what the anime industry is like, do you? It's mostly copypaste copypaste copypaste, and sometimes a rare gem is produced.

I thought that's what I was saying here:

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they seem to think that if they just recreate another series, give it a lick of paint, and add fanservice in, they've created a masterpiece (a.ka. Gurren Lagann).

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Simply, get used to fanservice of all types, it'll remain long after you're a fan.

I don't have to like something simply because it's prevalent. And many evils will outlive me but that doesn't mean I can't despise them.

When it comes to fanservice, I stick with the line I take with just about any other thing that could be in an anime (moe, mecha, etc.):

If you don't like it, don't watch it and don't act like there's something wrong with those of us who do like it.

It's not like any amount of fanservice utterly ruins a show - generally if the show has so much fanservice that it becomes irritating it's not worth watching. In some cases (I'll use SAC since it was brought up already and I'm familiar with it) the 'fanservice' is there not only because it sells but for character development reasons; Motoko's battle thong further underlines that fact that as a government-owned cyborg she's an object in the most literal sense of the term, and it actually adds to the story. Does the fact that she has massive breasts and chooses to prance around without pants on detract from the fact that the anime is brilliant? Not really (although personally I prefer her second season outfit).

Then you've got the stuff like Mnemosyne, which is basically all about the fanservice. If you like sex, violence, and yuri, yeah, you're going to think of the series a lot more highly than someone who doesn't like these things. Anime is a business first and foremost, and if you don't like the more fanservicey titles then vote with your dollars and don't buy them. I don't like love triangles one bit - do I complain about them and insist that they be removed from all anime because they're a blight on the medium? No, but I certainly don't watch or buy anime where I feel that the love triangle is so prominent or annoying that it detracts from the quality of the show as a whole.

Last edited by Kruszer on Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

It depends. Mostly like most things, it hinges on the story and the characters. I usually avoid it when at all possible, not because I don't like it but because I prefer more high class things and something that has a lot of that usually is indication that it won't be so those kind of shows would take a backseat to something that looks more inteligent. Fanservice in harem series or otherwise obvious "fanservice" series is tolerable, however, not so when the tone of the series until that point did not have it. It just feels random and out of place then.

Normally:
I don't mind most of it if it appears but there should be at least some purpose to it set forth in the story even if it's a flimsy one. Some is good but the more there is the harder it is to take the show seriously. Sometimes if the show is meant to be taken seriously this is a detraction.

Exceptions:
Sometimes once in a blue moon, I'm actually looking for shallow harem comedy or fanservice laden show, in which case I'd be in it for different reasons and probabally let more slide before I roll my eyes at it. Fanservice is okay up to certain point, and that is when it ceases to funny or sexy and just becomes repulsive gross-out humor (take Green Green or Eiken for example of the bad kind).

Excessive fanservice in a series usually becomes boring and predictable, usually warranting me to put a cap on my rating of it and the bad kind usually reflects even worse on the rating. (This holds true whenther I'm looking for fanservice or not) It usually would never get anything better than Very Good at the absolute best. It's really a matter of balance, too little seems random and out of place, too much is boring and predictable. Somewhere in the middle is best.

In conclusion no it's not neccessary but sometimes it can be enjoyable.

Looking through this thread i think that gaminganimators' and Goodpenguins' posts are related in some odd kind of way.

My personal opinion is that fanservice is detremental to anime, despite the fact that it is almost unaviodable when watching. However, it belongs in the same era as Benny Hill or Love Thy Neighbour, TV shows from the 70s, both accepted at the time, yet we look back now and cringe.

Primarily what concerns me about fan service is normally the age of the girls in question, compared to the how the characters are drawn. For example Rei Ayanami is 14, yet she is drawn to be a few years older - our Evangelion eyecandy is jailbait.

Secondly there seems to be a trend recently towards young characters who are also drawn young, take for example the characters from Dokuro-chan, Sky Girls or Strike Witches. They look like 13 year old girls, the animators, producers or whoever, have not made any attempt to hide this. Taking Ayanami as an example, at least she is drawn to look a bit older than she is. Otherwise we're left with, well, ogling obviously underage girls. Great.

Thirdly, in some cases it can detract from the show it is in. Elfen Lied is a very good show. Bravley it depicts the horrors of child abuse, graphicly so in fact, it also shows other aspects of how cruel man can be. However, by showing Nuu in various states of undress on a regular basis i feel it undermines itself. A poor attempt to inject humour, where perhaps there shouldn't have been.

Finally this leads me onto this:

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If a person wants stoutly intellectual depictions of stories, then anime is the wrong place to be in the first place.

Why? Why can't anime be more than panty shots, jiggly titties and jailbait? There is no reason why anime can't tell stories with the same gravitas as HG Wells, Jane Austin, Ernest Hemingway, Dougals Adams and a host of other lauded authors and playwrights? Can you imagine what some of the Iain M. Banks' Culture novels might look like in the hands of a talented animator?

Theshadybadger wrote:

Why? Why can't anime be more than panty shots, jiggly titties and jailbait? There is no reason why anime can't tell stories with the same gravitas as HG Wells, Jane Austin, Ernest Hemingway, Dougals Adams and a host of other lauded authors and playwrights? Can you imagine what some of the Iain M. Banks' Culture novels might look like in the hands of a talented animator?

While we are at it, how about we get rid of the violence in football? I say we, the fans, say we won't watch football anymore until tackling is illegal. After that let's move on to baseball. Base runners are allowed to "steal" bases. But stealing is wrong Rolling Eyes

Guess what? Many of the things you don't like about anime are a part of it. If you don't like it, then I suggest looking into a different hobby.

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